(03-04-2025 02:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 01:53 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What exactly is ignorant about what I said?

It’s a cold reality that if the UK or other NATO countries send troops to Ukraine, then it would cross the “red line” that Russia has spoken about for decades.

Russia won’t just stand idle and play defense to an overextended, American-less NATO that doesn’t fund itself enough to secure an absolute victory. Russia would move into total war, use nukes if necessary in order to win.

I don’t want it to happen.

Its ignorant of history because that has happened many times before and it never went to all out war. The west has crossed Putin's threatened red lines many times already just as Obama's imaginary red lines were crossed in Syria.

Now if the UK was attacking targets in Russia, that would be different.

The common denominator in historical examples is a US led version of NATO that served as a deterrent to Russian foreign policy.

We aren’t going to bail out the EU if they provoke Russia into using nukes. Won’t happen.

(03-04-2025 12:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

We were talking about Russia attacking Ukraine, not London.

the problem is I can see it invoking such even if inside Ukraine and especially while on a security detail. I guess time will tell.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

(03-04-2025 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 01:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:15 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I know Russia is a weak spot for you, but you do know that the USSR ceased to exist, right? The Soviets didn’t own anything.

Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

Russia built them, had the launch codes, placed them in the Ukraine. They were Russian nukes, a country that controlled the USSR.

Dude. You are missing the damn point completely.
Idgaf. We are not close enough mentally to have a legitimate discussion.

Im spoon feeding you no further.

We dont owe them **** from the Budapest memorandum.

Give them your money. Go fight.

Nope. Wrong again. The USSR did all that. The USSR no longer existed. Arent you the one always saying that Russia is not the USSR? They had the codes because the codes were in Russia. The missiles and bombs were in Ukraine. Its no different from the Soviet bombers and planes and tanks and power plants and government offices---which were all paid for by the Soviet Union but happened to be in Ukraine---and all became Ukrainian when the break up occurred.

That is just stupid semantics and you damn well know it.

They were Russian nukes is The Ukraine. Built in Russia, by Russians with Russian codes. Ukraine couldnt do shite with them anyway without getting obliterated.

We will not agree. When The Ukraine left they were like me after a divorce. They got all the shite Russia didnt want. Dont lie to yourself.



At least yall have left muh budapest alone for now.

Slavicucks....tough week.

They're going to sign the deal. Just heard it live on the radio. Take it for what it's worth.

(03-04-2025 10:58 AM)b2b Wrote:  I've got an extremely high level question on all of this.... what makes any of these stupid agreements legally binding at all? Every country has it's own set of laws.

The paper in which this agreements/pacts get signed are as worthless as using them for toilet paper. Not even the Charmin bears would use it.

I still remember from reading history books that Hitler and Stalin had a non-aggression pact. How did that turn out?

We need to get out of Nato, we don't need them, they need us and even the German head of state said that they needed the US to be part of the peace keeping force in Ukraine...why?

It's BS and the only ones in the US are idiots that believe everything the Left Stream Media tells them how to think.

(03-04-2025 02:30 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 01:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:15 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

Russia built them, had the launch codes, placed them in the Ukraine. They were Russian nukes, a country that controlled the USSR.

Dude. You are missing the damn point completely.
Idgaf. We are not close enough mentally to have a legitimate discussion.

Im spoon feeding you no further.

We dont owe them **** from the Budapest memorandum.

Give them your money. Go fight.

Nope. Wrong again. The USSR did all that. The USSR no longer existed. Arent you the one always saying that Russia is not the USSR? They had the codes because the codes were in Russia. The missiles and bombs were in Ukraine. Its no different from the Soviet bombers and planes and tanks and power plants and government offices---which were all paid for by the Soviet Union but happened to be in Ukraine---and all became Ukrainian when the break up occurred.

That is just stupid semantics and you damn well know it.

They were Russian nukes is The Ukraine. Built in Russia, by Russians with Russian codes. Ukraine couldnt do shite with them anyway without getting obliterated.

We will not agree. When The Ukraine left they were like me after a divorce. They got all the shite Russia didnt want. Dont lie to yourself.



At least yall have left muh budapest alone for now.

Slavicucks....tough week.

lol---Actually, most of the USSR nukes were built in Ukraine.

We actually do agree mostly. We both want the war to end. We both agree China is a bigger threat. We both agree the Europeans should carry their full share of the NATO burden. We both agree we'd rather the US taxpayer not cover the cost of the Ukraine war---or any foreign war for that matter. We both agree that forever wars are stupid and should be avoided. Its actually only on HOW we best accomplish the above that we have disagreements.

(03-04-2025 01:48 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:07 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I guess having the UK as your backer doesn't mean that much anymore...quick change in attitude when the money spigot goes dry

Yep, hat in hand.

Wonder where those super clever asshat senators are now?

Making fake videos I guess

Um, does that sound like an apology to youse guys? I don't see it.

(03-04-2025 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:30 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 01:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

Russia built them, had the launch codes, placed them in the Ukraine. They were Russian nukes, a country that controlled the USSR.

Dude. You are missing the damn point completely.
Idgaf. We are not close enough mentally to have a legitimate discussion.

Im spoon feeding you no further.

We dont owe them **** from the Budapest memorandum.

Give them your money. Go fight.

Nope. Wrong again. The USSR did all that. The USSR no longer existed. Arent you the one always saying that Russia is not the USSR? They had the codes because the codes were in Russia. The missiles and bombs were in Ukraine. Its no different from the Soviet bombers and planes and tanks and power plants and government offices---which were all paid for by the Soviet Union but happened to be in Ukraine---and all became Ukrainian when the break up occurred.

That is just stupid semantics and you damn well know it.

They were Russian nukes is The Ukraine. Built in Russia, by Russians with Russian codes. Ukraine couldnt do shite with them anyway without getting obliterated.

We will not agree. When The Ukraine left they were like me after a divorce. They got all the shite Russia didnt want. Dont lie to yourself.



At least yall have left muh budapest alone for now.

Slavicucks....tough week.

lol---Actually, most of the USSR nukes were built in Ukraine.

We actually do agree mostly. We both want the war to end. We both agree China is a bigger threat. We both agree the Europeans should carry their full share of the NATO burden. We both agree we'd rather the US taxpayer not cover the cost of the Ukraine war---or any foreign war for that matter. We both agree that forever wars are stupid and should be avoided. Its actually only on HOW we best accomplish the above that we have disagreements.

Yeah. This is true amigo.

Plus we arent prog filth.

Now all we need is to check terms with Russia. I believe they already got what they wanted: Ukraine out of NATO and some territory with great natural reserves.

(03-04-2025 03:09 PM)Curumim Wrote:  Now all we need is to check terms with Russia. I believe they already got what they wanted: Ukraine out of NATO and some territory with great natural reserves.

As much as Z wants Russia to give up what they've conquered it's not gonna happen. Z should be happy that he gets to rule over 5/6 of the nation instead of no nation. With the US in Ukraine, minus any troops it's like having a peace keeping force there. Russia wouldn't want to get the US involved in any war by shooting at innocent civilians.

It's. That. Simple.

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

(03-04-2025 04:36 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

Trump voted against a useless UN resolution and instead is actually ENDING the war. My goodness you leftists are stupid.

(03-04-2025 04:36 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

The UN is a disgrace to the world and can frick right off.

(03-04-2025 04:36 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

It’s more economic than political. Although for NATO to expand eastward would be a big “f you” to Russia, as they perceived the original gentleman’s agreement that NATO wouldn’t expand eastward.

Economically, the more countries in NATO, the more likely they are influenced by the EU and the US. Russia’s influence in the region would greatly decrease, specifically in the energy sector. We could easily isolate them whenever we want.

It’s a simple leverage game. Russia has nukes and natural resources. The people living there are desperate for the country’s long term survival.

(03-04-2025 02:41 PM)b2b Wrote:  They're going to sign the deal. Just heard it live on the radio. Take it for what it's worth.

Yep. Apparently Trump plans to announce it in his speech tonight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgr2g4n4wvdo
"Whether or not President Volodymyr Zelensky was ambushed or should have been more diplomatic in the Oval Office, it was a disastrous visit for Ukraine.

For those watching in Kyiv, the future of their country hung in the balance.

"It was an emotional conversation, but I understand our president," Yulia tells me next to Kyiv's golden-domed St Sofia's cathedral.

"Maybe it wasn't diplomatic, but it was sincere. It's about life, we want to live."

Yulia reflects a political pattern in Ukraine: the more the country is attacked, the more unity there is.

Before the full-scale invasion in 2022, President Zelensky's trust rating was 37%. Afterwards, it rocketed to 90%.

Before Donald Trump returned to office at the start of 2025, it was 52%. After he blamed Ukraine for starting the war, it hit 65%....

Her European Solidarity Party's chairman is former President Petro Poroshenko, a fierce rival to Zelensky.

He was even recently sanctioned by Ukraine's leader over what Ukraine's security service labelled as "threats to national security" and "creating obstacles to economic development". Mr Poroshenko said it was "politically motivated".

Despite this, the former president said he recognised Zelensky's legitimacy as leader, to combat both American and Russian claims to the contrary...."

Apparently the guy who asked Zelensky about his suit is dating MTG!

(03-04-2025 04:38 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 04:36 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

Trump voted against a useless UN resolution and instead is actually ENDING the war. My goodness you leftists are stupid.

Trump is trying to force Z to give up the part of his country Russia currently occupies because he is basically a Russian agent.

(03-04-2025 05:14 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 04:38 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 04:36 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 02:29 PM)hburg Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

Good points. Did not think about the above. With that stated, Ukraine is desperate to be part of Nato, Europe is desperate to support Ukraine. Both are playing with fire, including Russia.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

Why would Russia care if their neighbor is in NATO? NATO is a defensive alliance and only comes into play if attacked.

Russia shouldn’t care unless they want to invade their neighbors.

Why should NATO and the rest of Europe cater to a rogue state who is intent on invading their neighbors? Fvck Russia. They started the war, slaughtered civilians, destroyed half a country. They deserve to be isolated pariahs, sanctioned and embargoed by all legitimate nations,

In last weeks UN vote the US voted against a resolution calling for a lasting peace and Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. The other countries voting no with us included Russia, North Korea, and Syria. Trump fully stands with his buttbuddy Putin and it is a disgrace to our country.

Trump voted against a useless UN resolution and instead is actually ENDING the war. My goodness you leftists are stupid.

Trump is trying to force Z to give up the part of his country Russia currently occupies because he is basically a Russian agent.

Do you actually believe that? You cannot be that dumb, can you? Russia invaded while Biden was in office, not Trump.