(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

So we leave NATO

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

We were talking about Russia attacking Ukraine, not London.

(03-04-2025 11:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:42 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 09:09 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(03-01-2025 02:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-01-2025 01:51 PM)TripleA Wrote:  So you think we should sign up to protect Ukraine no matter what? To hell with that. We did that in VietNam, and it cost us 58,000 American lives. For what? Absolutely nothing

We signed up to protect Ukraine when they gave up nukes.

The threat was that in a decaying former USSR state they wouldn’t be able to secure nuclear weapons and they would be stolen / sold to the Middle East. The cost to keep those weapons out of the hands of potential terrorist states was our agreement to pledge support for the security and national sovereignty of Ukraine.

They kept up their side of the deal. We didn’t.

And that is what you get when you put your faith in American Politicians.

Throughout history American Politicians have been snakes. This goes all the way back to the American Indian dealings. If those dead tribesmen were still here to speak about their forked tongues I do wonder what stories we would hear.

Really sick of this lie. Ive read the Budapest Memorandum.

In no place does it say we are required to take action. It provides some justification if we do but is in no way require a legal obligation to defend Ukraine. Its not a treaty. Its a memorandum. Its not a pact. Its not even a real agreement.

Thats just retarded. The Soviets (Russia) owned the nukes anyway. If Wyoming secedes from the US do you think they get to keep "their nukes". Idiotic.

My god people are stupid. Get of the damn redditard and teh facebook.

FFS

Look it up for yourselves slavicucks.

I know Russia is a weak spot for you, but you do know that the USSR ceased to exist, right? The Soviets didn’t own anything.

Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

(03-04-2025 12:15 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:42 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 09:09 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(03-01-2025 02:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  We signed up to protect Ukraine when they gave up nukes.

The threat was that in a decaying former USSR state they wouldn’t be able to secure nuclear weapons and they would be stolen / sold to the Middle East. The cost to keep those weapons out of the hands of potential terrorist states was our agreement to pledge support for the security and national sovereignty of Ukraine.

They kept up their side of the deal. We didn’t.

And that is what you get when you put your faith in American Politicians.

Throughout history American Politicians have been snakes. This goes all the way back to the American Indian dealings. If those dead tribesmen were still here to speak about their forked tongues I do wonder what stories we would hear.

Really sick of this lie. Ive read the Budapest Memorandum.

In no place does it say we are required to take action. It provides some justification if we do but is in no way require a legal obligation to defend Ukraine. Its not a treaty. Its a memorandum. Its not a pact. Its not even a real agreement.

Thats just retarded. The Soviets (Russia) owned the nukes anyway. If Wyoming secedes from the US do you think they get to keep "their nukes". Idiotic.

My god people are stupid. Get of the damn redditard and teh facebook.

FFS

Look it up for yourselves slavicucks.

I know Russia is a weak spot for you, but you do know that the USSR ceased to exist, right? The Soviets didn’t own anything.

Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

(03-04-2025 12:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

We were talking about Russia attacking Ukraine, not London.

My post answers both scenarios very clearly because the scenario proposed by WTP doesn’t where the nukes launched by Russia land.

Don’t know what to tell you, try reading the whole post chain before whining.

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

To me its most similar to Vietnam---except the Russians are in the same position as the US was in Vietnam (Russia actually has men on the ground fighting in another country) and the US is in Russia's Vietnam role (we are just sending weapons and supplies).

(03-04-2025 11:07 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I guess having the UK as your backer doesn't mean that much anymore...quick change in attitude when the money spigot goes dry

This is no change in their position.

(03-04-2025 12:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:07 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I guess having the UK as your backer doesn't mean that much anymore...quick change in attitude when the money spigot goes dry

This is no change in their position.

Yeah. They are fricked

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

So what?

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What's any of that got to do with the Ukraine situation? The USSR basically saved eastern Europe's ass in WW2. Japan got nuked twice. Now they're an ally. Germany killed 6M Jews now they're basically the leaders of the EU w/ the UK. Things change. Dumb things happen.

Why don't you send your kids over there to fight the Russians since they're so horrible?

(03-04-2025 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:15 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:42 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 09:09 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  And that is what you get when you put your faith in American Politicians.

Throughout history American Politicians have been snakes. This goes all the way back to the American Indian dealings. If those dead tribesmen were still here to speak about their forked tongues I do wonder what stories we would hear.

Really sick of this lie. Ive read the Budapest Memorandum.

In no place does it say we are required to take action. It provides some justification if we do but is in no way require a legal obligation to defend Ukraine. Its not a treaty. Its a memorandum. Its not a pact. Its not even a real agreement.

Thats just retarded. The Soviets (Russia) owned the nukes anyway. If Wyoming secedes from the US do you think they get to keep "their nukes". Idiotic.

My god people are stupid. Get of the damn redditard and teh facebook.

FFS

Look it up for yourselves slavicucks.

I know Russia is a weak spot for you, but you do know that the USSR ceased to exist, right? The Soviets didn’t own anything.

Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

Russia built them, had the launch codes, placed them in the Ukraine. They were Russian nukes, a country that controlled the USSR.

Dude. You are missing the damn point completely.
Idgaf. We are not close enough mentally to have a legitimate discussion.

Im spoon feeding you no further.

We dont owe them **** from the Budapest memorandum.

Give them your money. Go fight.

(03-04-2025 11:07 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I guess having the UK as your backer doesn't mean that much anymore...quick change in attitude when the money spigot goes dry

Yep, hat in hand.

Wonder where those super clever asshat senators are now?

Making fake videos I guess

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:39 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  If NATO gets involved in Ukraine, and Russia views that as an act of war and launches nukes in response, the US can simply ignore Article 5 and not participate.

If Europe wants to destroy itself again after the US tried desperate to help with diplomacy, then that’s the way it goes.

We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What exactly is ignorant about what I said?

It’s a cold reality that if the UK or other NATO countries send troops to Ukraine, then it would cross the “red line” that Russia has spoken about for decades.

Russia won’t just stand idle and play defense to an overextended, American-less NATO that doesn’t fund itself enough to secure an absolute victory. Russia would move into total war, use nukes if necessary in order to win.

I don’t want it to happen.

(03-04-2025 01:29 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What's any of that got to do with the Ukraine situation? The USSR basically saved eastern Europe's ass in WW2. Japan got nuked twice. Now they're an ally. Germany killed 6M Jews now they're basically the leaders of the EU w/ the UK. Things change. Dumb things happen.

Why don't you send your kids over there to fight the Russians since they're so horrible?

I tell you. Some of you never learned to read.
My comment was in response to the claim that UK troops fighting in Ukraine would automatically lead to Russia attacking London. That was even more stupid than those of you who can't read.

As AttackCoog and I say repeatedly, the point is that we don't want our kids to have to fight in Poland or Latvia or Estonia. While its fair to disagree that is a risk, you people are just so moron level stupid, you keep repeating the line about sending our kids to Ukraine. Its like reading Tom but on a different subject. Orange man bad. Green man bad.

(03-04-2025 01:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:15 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:33 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:42 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Really sick of this lie. Ive read the Budapest Memorandum.

In no place does it say we are required to take action. It provides some justification if we do but is in no way require a legal obligation to defend Ukraine. Its not a treaty. Its a memorandum. Its not a pact. Its not even a real agreement.

Thats just retarded. The Soviets (Russia) owned the nukes anyway. If Wyoming secedes from the US do you think they get to keep "their nukes". Idiotic.

My god people are stupid. Get of the damn redditard and teh facebook.

FFS

Look it up for yourselves slavicucks.

I know Russia is a weak spot for you, but you do know that the USSR ceased to exist, right? The Soviets didn’t own anything.

Precisely the low iq response i expect from you. I guess the Unted States owned nothing when the south seceeded.

You are just too ignorant to have a legitimate conversation.

Please read a book. Any book.

We dont owe Ukraine a damn thing. Period.

Good grief. Its not that complicated. The obvious difference is the United States still existed after the south left the Union. The United States never disbanded---it lost some states (temorarily), but the remaining portion of the union carried on as the United States. The USSR disbanded. It no longer existed.

Russia built them, had the launch codes, placed them in the Ukraine. They were Russian nukes, a country that controlled the USSR.

Dude. You are missing the damn point completely.
Idgaf. We are not close enough mentally to have a legitimate discussion.

Im spoon feeding you no further.

We dont owe them **** from the Budapest memorandum.

Give them your money. Go fight.

Nope. Wrong again. The USSR did all that. The USSR no longer existed. Arent you the one always saying that Russia is not the USSR? They had the codes because the codes were in Russia. The missiles and bombs were in Ukraine. Its no different from the Soviet bombers and planes and tanks and power plants and government offices---which were all paid for by the Soviet Union but happened to be in Ukraine---and all became Ukrainian when the break up occurred.

(03-04-2025 01:53 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:03 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 11:37 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 10:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  We don't have to ignore Article 5. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so we have no obligation to join in a war.

If UK troops are attacked in Ukraine article 5 doesn’t apply.

If Russia bombs London Article 5 does apply because it’s within the territory of NATO.

If the scenario listed above were to occur, there’s practically zero chance that Russia wouldn’t respond in an act of war from NATO countries by not attacking their actual territory.

It would almost certainly happen.

Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What exactly is ignorant about what I said?

It’s a cold reality that if the UK or other NATO countries send troops to Ukraine, then it would cross the “red line” that Russia has spoken about for decades.

Russia won’t just stand idle and play defense to an overextended, American-less NATO that doesn’t fund itself enough to secure an absolute victory. Russia would move into total war, use nukes if necessary in order to win.

I don’t want it to happen.

Its ignorant of history because that has happened many times before and it never went to all out war. The west has crossed Putin's threatened red lines many times already just as Obama's imaginary red lines were crossed in Syria.

Now if the UK was attacking targets in Russia, that would be different.

(03-04-2025 02:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 01:29 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-04-2025 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  Ignorance of history is not a virtue.

Russian and US fighter pilots were in dogfights in Korea. We fought the Chinese. Russians were in Vietnam. In none of those cases did the fighting extend beyond Vietnam or Korea into the US, China or Russia.

Russian and German troops fought each other in the Spanish Civil War. Yet they were allies in overrunning Poland at the start of WWII.

Russian troops fired at our people in Syria. We fired back and killed Russians. That didn't extend to Russia or the US.

We also haven't been in a war directly with Iran despite all that has gone on.

What's any of that got to do with the Ukraine situation? The USSR basically saved eastern Europe's ass in WW2. Japan got nuked twice. Now they're an ally. Germany killed 6M Jews now they're basically the leaders of the EU w/ the UK. Things change. Dumb things happen.

Why don't you send your kids over there to fight the Russians since they're so horrible?

I tell you. Some of you never learned to read.
My comment was in response to the claim that UK troops fighting in Ukraine would automatically lead to Russia attacking London. That was even more stupid than those of you who can't read.

As AttackCoog and I say repeatedly, the point is that we don't want our kids to have to fight in Poland or Latvia or Estonia. While its fair to disagree that is a risk, you people are just so moron level stupid, you keep repeating the line about sending our kids to Ukraine. Its like reading Tom but on a different subject. Orange man bad. Green man bad.

Why do you think we're going to HAVE TO fight over there? That's what I fail to understand. You've convinced yourselves we have to back Ukraine now so we don't have to fight Russia later. I don't believe that.