The problem for Red Team is that Walz is an eminently sensible choice. He's practically a MAGA guy who happens to work for Blue Team.

(08-06-2024 12:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 11:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I guess Shapiro's Jewishness cost him. Odd that Identity was a negative in the Identity Party, and they went with the old white guy.

As usual it is the right-wingers on this forum that bring up identity. You guys are definitely more fascinated by this than the non-right-wingers on this forum!

Old white guy gets picked: must have the been the identify of the other guy that cost him

Jewish guy gets picked: it’s probably only because of his identity that he got picked.

Gotta love it.

Boy do you have it backwards.

Shapiro's Jewishness would have lost her votes particularly in Michigan (ever hear of Dearborn?) and among the younger, anti-Israel, antisemitic factions of her party, the ones burning the US flag and chanting from the river to the sea. Wouldn't have driven them to Trump, but maybe made them stay at home.

White guy: balances the ticket, female of color and male of no color. No problems with the pro-Palestinean, antiIsrael branch of the Dems. The safe, keep everybody in the tent choice.

IMO, had Shapiro not been Jewish, he would have been the pick, just for the Pennsylvania vote. JMHO.

Shapiros stances on Israel are the same thing as him being Jewish (his Jewishness) to you?

(08-06-2024 02:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 12:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 11:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I guess Shapiro's Jewishness cost him. Odd that Identity was a negative in the Identity Party, and they went with the old white guy.

As usual it is the right-wingers on this forum that bring up identity. You guys are definitely more fascinated by this than the non-right-wingers on this forum!

Old white guy gets picked: must have the been the identify of the other guy that cost him

Jewish guy gets picked: it’s probably only because of his identity that he got picked.

Gotta love it.

Boy do you have it backwards.

Shapiro's Jewishness would have lost her votes particularly in Michigan (ever hear of Dearborn?) and among the younger, anti-Israel, antisemitic factions of her party, the ones burning the US flag and chanting from the river to the sea. Wouldn't have driven them to Trump, but maybe made them stay at home.

White guy: balances the ticket, female of color and male of no color. No problems with the pro-Palestinean, antiIsrael branch of the Dems. The safe, keep everybody in the tent choice.

IMO, had Shapiro not been Jewish, he would have been the pick, just for the Pennsylvania vote. JMHO.

Shapiros stances on Israel are the same thing as him being Jewish (his Jewishness) to you?

Not me - but to some people, nearly all Democrats.

I don't care - but a lot of Democrat voters do. For example, Rashida Tlaib and the Squad. For example, the proPalestinean protesters burning American flags. Many of your fellow Democrats. I have at least one of those in my family - a UT grad student. His vote for Kams is safe now - he would not have voted for Harris-Shapiro. Very pro Palestinean. For some Dems, he would be a dealbreaker. Maybe the specter of losing those votes swung it away from him. It had to be a consideration.

For myself, I favor people with good policies and oppose those with bad ones, regardless of age, sex, race, whatever. It is the Dems who have demonstrated that they care about race, sex, etc. What were the DEM criteria for the latest SCOTUS appointment? Black female. What were the parameters for Biden's VP pick? Female. here's the quote

Hey, Lad, here is a leading Democrat with the same questions I voiced.

Van Jones

Maybe it is not just us conservatives.

(08-06-2024 12:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 11:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I guess Shapiro's Jewishness cost him. Odd that Identity was a negative in the Identity Party, and they went with the old white guy.

As usual it is the right-wingers on this forum that bring up identity. You guys are definitely more fascinated by this than the non-right-wingers on this forum!

Old white guy gets picked: must have the been the identify of the other guy that cost him

Jewish guy gets picked: it’s probably only because of his identity that he got picked.

Gotta love it.

Boy do you have it backwards.

Shapiro's Jewishness would have lost her votes particularly in Michigan (ever hear of Dearborn?) and among the younger, anti-Israel, antisemitic factions of her party, the ones burning the US flag and chanting from the river to the sea. Wouldn't have driven them to Trump, but maybe made them stay at home.

White guy: balances the ticket, female of color and male of no color. No problems with the pro-Palestinean, antiIsrael branch of the Dems. The safe, keep everybody in the tent choice.

IMO, had Shapiro not been Jewish, he would have been the pick, just for the Pennsylvania vote. JMHO.

Just pointing out that Elissa Slotkin, who is Jewish, just won the Democratic primary for US Senator from Michigan.

Johnson and Wasserman Schultz

“It has been very noticeable that of all of the people that she is carefully considering, that the only Jewish candidate is getting excruciating, very specific scrutiny, particularly around his positions on Israel,” Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), a Jewish lawmaker, said before Harris’s pick became public.

Wasserman and Jones. Guess the idea that his being a Jew influenced the choice is not just a right wing idea.

Shapiro’s supporters were quick to point out that Shapiro’s stance on the war is similar to that of other vice presidential candidates, arguing that he was being singled out with criticism because of his Jewish heritage. The attacks, some argued, were fueled by antisemitism.

(08-06-2024 10:10 PM)MOBalum Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 12:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 11:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I guess Shapiro's Jewishness cost him. Odd that Identity was a negative in the Identity Party, and they went with the old white guy.

As usual it is the right-wingers on this forum that bring up identity. You guys are definitely more fascinated by this than the non-right-wingers on this forum!

Old white guy gets picked: must have the been the identify of the other guy that cost him

Jewish guy gets picked: it’s probably only because of his identity that he got picked.

Gotta love it.

Boy do you have it backwards.

Shapiro's Jewishness would have lost her votes particularly in Michigan (ever hear of Dearborn?) and among the younger, anti-Israel, antisemitic factions of her party, the ones burning the US flag and chanting from the river to the sea. Wouldn't have driven them to Trump, but maybe made them stay at home.

White guy: balances the ticket, female of color and male of no color. No problems with the pro-Palestinean, antiIsrael branch of the Dems. The safe, keep everybody in the tent choice.

IMO, had Shapiro not been Jewish, he would have been the pick, just for the Pennsylvania vote. JMHO.

Just pointing out that Elissa Slotkin, who is Jewish, just won the Democratic primary for US Senator from Michigan.

walking a fine line

I guess she was successful in her balancing act.

(08-07-2024 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 10:10 PM)MOBalum Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 12:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 11:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 09:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  As usual it is the right-wingers on this forum that bring up identity. You guys are definitely more fascinated by this than the non-right-wingers on this forum!

Old white guy gets picked: must have the been the identify of the other guy that cost him

Jewish guy gets picked: it’s probably only because of his identity that he got picked.

Gotta love it.

Boy do you have it backwards.

Shapiro's Jewishness would have lost her votes particularly in Michigan (ever hear of Dearborn?) and among the younger, anti-Israel, antisemitic factions of her party, the ones burning the US flag and chanting from the river to the sea. Wouldn't have driven them to Trump, but maybe made them stay at home.

White guy: balances the ticket, female of color and male of no color. No problems with the pro-Palestinean, antiIsrael branch of the Dems. The safe, keep everybody in the tent choice.

IMO, had Shapiro not been Jewish, he would have been the pick, just for the Pennsylvania vote. JMHO.

Just pointing out that Elissa Slotkin, who is Jewish, just won the Democratic primary for US Senator from Michigan.

walking a fine line

I guess she was successful in her balancing act.

Not plugged into Michigan politics. Do Republicans there walk a fine line or do they go blatantly all-in with support for one side?

(08-07-2024 10:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 10:10 PM)MOBalum Wrote:  Just pointing out that Elissa Slotkin, who is Jewish, just won the Democratic primary for US Senator from Michigan.

walking a fine line

I guess she was successful in her balancing act.

Not plugged into Michigan politics. . . .

I'm not either, but this line in the article struck me as unintentionally hilarious:

"David Kramer, who serves as finance chair for Slotkin’s campaign, told Jewish Insider earlier this month he doesn’t think that the letter was motivated by political considerations."

(08-07-2024 10:20 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Johnson and Wasserman Schultz

“It has been very noticeable that of all of the people that she is carefully considering, that the only Jewish candidate is getting excruciating, very specific scrutiny, particularly around his positions on Israel,” Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), a Jewish lawmaker, said before Harris’s pick became public.

Wasserman and Jones. Guess the idea that his being a Jew influenced the choice is not just a right wing idea.

Shapiro’s supporters were quick to point out that Shapiro’s stance on the war is similar to that of other vice presidential candidates, arguing that he was being singled out with criticism because of his Jewish heritage. The attacks, some argued, were fueled by antisemitism.

Who said the bolded?

The question is whether it was actually an issue or not.

(08-07-2024 12:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The question is whether it was actually an issue or not.

Short of being in the room for the discussion, we will likely never know for sure, but the possibility(probability?) is fair grounds for discussion, as Jones, Wasserman, and I have pointed out, especially in light of recent antiSemitism within the Dem party and their constituents.

Related news:

Harvard

Harvard University must face a lawsuit by Jewish students who accused the Ivy League school of letting its campus become a bastion of rampant antisemitism, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.

(08-07-2024 02:54 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 12:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The question is whether it was actually an issue or not.

Short of being in the room for the discussion, we will likely never know for sure, but the possibility(probability?) is fair grounds for discussion, as Jones, Wasserman, and I have pointed out, especially in light of recent antiSemitism within the Dem party and their constituents.

Related news:

Harvard

Harvard University must face a lawsuit by Jewish students who accused the Ivy League school of letting its campus become a bastion of rampant antisemitism, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.

While I believe there has been a real uptick in anti-Semitism, I also feel that too many people are equating opposition to the situation in Gaza with anti-Semitism.

(08-07-2024 03:12 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 02:54 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 12:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The question is whether it was actually an issue or not.

Short of being in the room for the discussion, we will likely never know for sure, but the possibility(probability?) is fair grounds for discussion, as Jones, Wasserman, and I have pointed out, especially in light of recent antiSemitism within the Dem party and their constituents.

Related news:

Harvard

Harvard University must face a lawsuit by Jewish students who accused the Ivy League school of letting its campus become a bastion of rampant antisemitism, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.

While I believe there has been a real uptick in anti-Semitism, I also feel that too many people are equating opposition to the situation in Gaza with anti-Semitism.

That is very true, and the GOP has been doing too much of that, to name one example.

However, on the Harvard campus (among others), Jewish students have been harassed by pro-Palestinians and Hamas sympathizers as though they were Israelis or supportive of Israel's actions in Gaza. At the very least, that's prejudice in the form of stereotyping; and if there is institutional tolerance of stereotyping Jewish students, antisemitism isn't too strong a term for it.

(08-07-2024 03:18 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 03:12 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 02:54 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 12:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The question is whether it was actually an issue or not.

Short of being in the room for the discussion, we will likely never know for sure, but the possibility(probability?) is fair grounds for discussion, as Jones, Wasserman, and I have pointed out, especially in light of recent antiSemitism within the Dem party and their constituents.

Related news:

Harvard

Harvard University must face a lawsuit by Jewish students who accused the Ivy League school of letting its campus become a bastion of rampant antisemitism, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.

While I believe there has been a real uptick in anti-Semitism, I also feel that too many people are equating opposition to the situation in Gaza with anti-Semitism.

That is very true, and the GOP has been doing too much of that, to name one example.

However, on the Harvard campus (among others), Jewish students have been harassed by pro-Palestinians and Hamas sympathizers as though they were Israelis or supportive of Israel's actions in Gaza. At the very least, that's prejudice in the form of stereotyping; and if there is institutional tolerance of stereotyping Jewish students, antisemitism isn't too strong a term for it.

Agree. From what I understand there are similar situations at several campuses and I think antisemitism can be applied to those as well.

social media explodes

"Let’s be honest," GOP Sen. Tom Cotton posted on X. "Kamala is the most anti-Israel member of Biden’s team, always siding with Hamas and Iran’s interests. Shapiro and Walz’s views on Israel aren’t that different. But Harris catered to her pro-Hamas, antisemitic base who opposed Shapiro because he’s Jewish."

"Kamala Harris did not pick Josh Shapiro because antisemitic progressives did not like that he is Jewish," NRSC spokesperson Mike Berg said in a statement.

"It was Harris’ first major decision as the nominee and she caved to the pro-Hamas contingency within the Democratic Party.

yellow flag

(08-07-2024 04:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  social media explodes

"Let’s be honest," GOP Sen. Tom Cotton posted on X. "Kamala is the most anti-Israel member of Biden’s team, always siding with Hamas and Iran’s interests. Shapiro and Walz’s views on Israel aren’t that different. But Harris catered to her pro-Hamas, antisemitic base who opposed Shapiro because he’s Jewish."

"Kamala Harris did not pick Josh Shapiro because antisemitic progressives did not like that he is Jewish," NRSC spokesperson Mike Berg said in a statement.

"It was Harris’ first major decision as the nominee and she caved to the pro-Hamas contingency within the Democratic Party.

I guess we’re seeing the first talking point the Republicans want to circle around. The party that supposedly doesn’t want to play identity politics is, you guessed it, playing identity politics.

It’s unsurprising that the GOP can do no further analysis as to why Walz was selected beyond “the other guy is Jewish.” The GOP is going to milk their new found argument that that their unwavering blind support of the Israeli government is righteous and any opposition is antisemitic for all it’s worth.

I think the title is funny. "Social media explodes".


More like "social media explodes with Republican identity based caterwauling"

(08-08-2024 05:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-07-2024 04:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  social media explodes

"Let’s be honest," GOP Sen. Tom Cotton posted on X. "Kamala is the most anti-Israel member of Biden’s team, always siding with Hamas and Iran’s interests. Shapiro and Walz’s views on Israel aren’t that different. But Harris catered to her pro-Hamas, antisemitic base who opposed Shapiro because he’s Jewish."

"Kamala Harris did not pick Josh Shapiro because antisemitic progressives did not like that he is Jewish," NRSC spokesperson Mike Berg said in a statement.

"It was Harris’ first major decision as the nominee and she caved to the pro-Hamas contingency within the Democratic Party.

I guess we’re seeing the first talking point the Republicans want to circle around. The party that supposedly doesn’t want to play identity politics is, you guessed it, playing identity politics.

It’s unsurprising that the GOP can do no further analysis as to why Walz was selected beyond “the other guy is Jewish.” The GOP is going to milk their new found argument that that their unwavering blind support of the Israeli government is righteous and any opposition is antisemitic for all it’s worth.

Which party promised to nominate a woman as VP? Which party promised to nominate a black woman for SCOTUS?

The question, as you say, is not why Walz was selected - it is why was Shapiro not selected? Pennsysvania vs. Minnesota? Duh. Other things being equal go for the guy in the battleground state. But they weren't equal.

In any case, it is not just the GOP asking these questions - leading Democrats are also asking. Did you see the quotes I posted from Van Jones and Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

I personally support the peaceful people who were attacked on October 7, raped, murdered,and kidnapped, not the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers. If that is blind support to you, so be it.

But I also support our allies in the region, of which Israel is one. I have noticed that the people attacking Israel are those also chanting Death to America. Supporting them is purely a Democrat thing these days.

Choosing Walz over Shapiro was a very pragmatic thing, but it needed to be done because Shapiro would have lost them votes due to...being from Pennsylvania? No. You know the answer.

(08-08-2024 09:33 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I think the title is funny. "Social media explodes".


More like "social media explodes with Republican identity based caterwauling"

It was a contraction of the headline.