(08-01-2024 11:49 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 09:46 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  It's the gross lack of self awareness. To pearl clutch as if we can't afford to cut taxes for young people working in their 20's because of the deficit is hilarious.

I agree completely on this. I think these are 2 objectively good things to run on. I don't and have never understood the clowns who will do insane back bends and contortions to disagree with Trump on a policy that I have little doubt if proposed by literally anyone else you'd agree with it. If Trump came out for some version of Universal Healthcare these same clowns would argue how terrible a policy that is.

If the party further from my ideology starts proposing things I think are objectively great and things I'd support anyone proposing that's awesome! To me that signals a positive shifting of the Overton window of what's possible. Please Trump, keep proposing policies that are good!

It's very obvious that the Overton Window is shifting like you said (some of which I oppose still). The GOP is basically a mixture of Ross Perot and Bill Clinton 1992 platforms.

Clearly the GOP has accepted that the ACA is here to stay and has given up on the idea of a market based solution.

Wow, eleven posts from Commie Red, he's in a roll. I think that proposal makes him nervous. He's gonna have to inquire from the DNC for his talking points. LOL

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

That's the way it was supposed to work but that's not the way it actually works. The government takes the money from your earnings, uses it for whatever pet project they want, replaces the money with an IOU's, and basically allows it to run into the ground. It's pretty much what you should expect when you allow the government to handle your retirement funds.

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

So, it's the same as a tax just not officially called a tax. It's not like you will get back exactly what you put in to SS.

(08-01-2024 12:05 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

That's the way it was supposed to work but that's not the way it actually works. The government takes the money from your earnings, uses it for whatever pet project they want, replaces the money with an IOU's, and basically allows it to run into the ground. It's pretty much what you should expect when you allow the government to handle your retirement funds.

This is correct. They borrow your money, realize they don’t have nearly enough so they print it which then devalues the principal. The government is ok with it because there’s no oversight


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(08-01-2024 12:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

So, it's the same as a tax just not officially called a tax. It's not like you will get back exactly what you put in to SS.

You actually come out WAY behind if you were to invest that money in something like a 401K.

The only people who come out ahead are those who rip it off by claiming disability.

(08-01-2024 10:13 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 09:46 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  It's the gross lack of self awareness. To pearl clutch as if we can't afford to cut taxes for young people working in their 20's because of the deficit is hilarious.

1. We can afford it, but I would increase taxes on the richer folks to pay for it.
2. I'm all for tax cuts for young taxpayers.
3. It's just my opinion that it will never make it through Congress. I could be wrong.

Not expecting it to pass Congress is not reason to not attempt something as president. That goes for both sides. I'd much prefer a president that shines a light on their failures.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

(08-01-2024 12:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 12:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

So, it's the same as a tax just not officially called a tax. It's not like you will get back exactly what you put in to SS.

You actually come out WAY behind if you were to invest that money in something like a 401K.

The only people who come out ahead are those who rip it off by claiming disability.

Are you saying I'd make more return simply taking SS rather than taking that same $$ and put it in the market or invest it in other ways? I think I may be misunderstanding what you are saying.

(08-01-2024 12:36 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 10:13 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 09:46 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  It's the gross lack of self awareness. To pearl clutch as if we can't afford to cut taxes for young people working in their 20's because of the deficit is hilarious.

1. We can afford it, but I would increase taxes on the richer folks to pay for it.
2. I'm all for tax cuts for young taxpayers.
3. It's just my opinion that it will never make it through Congress. I could be wrong.

Not expecting it to pass Congress is not reason to not attempt something as president. That goes for both sides. I'd much prefer a president that shines a light on their failures.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Right, but again, we have a trump track record.

How many times was next week going to be infrastructure week?
When is the big beautiful replacement for the ACA coming out?
When is the replacement for the "horrible" Iran deal coming out?

When are you going on vacation again?

When are you ever going to post a lucid comment or make a cogent argument rather than focusing on other posters?

I just did

(08-01-2024 12:40 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 12:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 12:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

So, it's the same as a tax just not officially called a tax. It's not like you will get back exactly what you put in to SS.

You actually come out WAY behind if you were to invest that money in something like a 401K.

The only people who come out ahead are those who rip it off by claiming disability.

Are you saying I'd make more return simply taking SS rather than taking that same $$ and put it in the market or invest it in other ways? I think I may be misunderstanding what you are saying.

No, I'm talking about if you were able to invest your SS in something else other than SS. You'd come out WAY ahead if you were to take the amount you are paying into SS and have that go straight into a 401K instead.

SS also has the added benefit of disability insurance. But that can be handled through the private sector as well. I'm basically paying for a second disability insurance at my work (Long term and short term disability ) as well as having it also accounted for in SS payments.

(08-01-2024 12:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I just did

You posted a question focusing on a poster.

Trust me when I tell you Tom, Everyone here enjoyed your vacation more than you did.

(08-01-2024 12:36 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 10:13 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 09:46 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  It's the gross lack of self awareness. To pearl clutch as if we can't afford to cut taxes for young people working in their 20's because of the deficit is hilarious.

1. We can afford it, but I would increase taxes on the richer folks to pay for it.
2. I'm all for tax cuts for young taxpayers.
3. It's just my opinion that it will never make it through Congress. I could be wrong.

Not expecting it to pass Congress is not reason to not attempt something as president. That goes for both sides. I'd much prefer a president that shines a light on their failures.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Damn look as us agreeing again. Run on and advocate forcefully for what you want to do, even if it will never make it through congress as currently composed. Then use the ultimate bully pulpit of the presidency to call out congress for not passing the popular platforms you ran on that they refuse to pass. Attack opponents of it, and forcefully attack opponents of your own party who are against your plans. Tell those people I will back challengers to you if they don't support the popular policies you want. Throwing your hands up and saying "oh congress won't pass it so I won't advocate for it" really just means you don't actually support it.

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

It is taxed. The amount that is withheld is included in your gross wages on your W-2. You don't get to deduct FICA & Medicare. As to whether your benefits are taxable when you receive them:


"Your Social Security benefits could be taxable, depending on your situation. According to the IRS, the best way to see if you’ll owe taxes on your Social Security income is to take one-half of your Social Security benefits and add that amount to all your other income. This includes tax-exempt interest. This number is known as your combined income, and this is how it’s calculated:

Combined Income = Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) + Nontaxable Interest + 1/2 of Social Security Benefits

If your combined income is above a certain limit (the IRS calls this limit the base amount), you will need to pay at least some tax. The limit for 2023 and 2024 is $25,000 if you are a single filer, head of household or qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child. The 2023 and 2024 limit for joint filers is $32,000. However, if you’re married and file separately, you’ll likely have to pay taxes on your Social Security income".

"For married couples filing a joint return, you’ll pay taxes on up to 50% of your Social Security income if you have a combined income of $32,000 to $44,000. If you have a combined income of more than $44,000, you can expect to pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security payments".

Is Social Security Taxable?

(08-01-2024 12:55 PM)TigerCane Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

It is taxed. The amount that is withheld is included in your gross wages on your W-2. You don't get to deduct FICA & Medicare. As to whether your benefits are taxable when you receive them:


"Your Social Security benefits could be taxable, depending on your situation. According to the IRS, the best way to see if you’ll owe taxes on your Social Security income is to take one-half of your Social Security benefits and add that amount to all your other income. This includes tax-exempt interest. This number is known as your combined income, and this is how it’s calculated:

Combined Income = Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) + Nontaxable Interest + 1/2 of Social Security Benefits

If your combined income is above a certain limit (the IRS calls this limit the base amount), you will need to pay at least some tax. The limit for 2023 and 2024 is $25,000 if you are a single filer, head of household or qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child. The 2023 and 2024 limit for joint filers is $32,000. However, if you’re married and file separately, you’ll likely have to pay taxes on your Social Security income".

"For married couples filing a joint return, you’ll pay taxes on up to 50% of your Social Security income if you have a combined income of $32,000 to $44,000. If you have a combined income of more than $44,000, you can expect to pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security payments".

Is Social Security Taxable?

I think Tom is saying it isn't taxed twice, once on your original paycheck and then again when you withdraw.

(08-01-2024 01:02 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 12:55 PM)TigerCane Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've never understood why SS income would be taxed.

Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

It is taxed. The amount that is withheld is included in your gross wages on your W-2. You don't get to deduct FICA & Medicare. As to whether your benefits are taxable when you receive them:


"Your Social Security benefits could be taxable, depending on your situation. According to the IRS, the best way to see if you’ll owe taxes on your Social Security income is to take one-half of your Social Security benefits and add that amount to all your other income. This includes tax-exempt interest. This number is known as your combined income, and this is how it’s calculated:

Combined Income = Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) + Nontaxable Interest + 1/2 of Social Security Benefits

If your combined income is above a certain limit (the IRS calls this limit the base amount), you will need to pay at least some tax. The limit for 2023 and 2024 is $25,000 if you are a single filer, head of household or qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child. The 2023 and 2024 limit for joint filers is $32,000. However, if you’re married and file separately, you’ll likely have to pay taxes on your Social Security income".

"For married couples filing a joint return, you’ll pay taxes on up to 50% of your Social Security income if you have a combined income of $32,000 to $44,000. If you have a combined income of more than $44,000, you can expect to pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security payments".

Is Social Security Taxable?

I think Tom is saying it isn't taxed twice, once on your original paycheck and then again when you withdraw.

Correct...there's no "tax" on your paycheck...it's a withholding from your pay that is remitted to the government and then you get it back when you reach the appropriate age.

I guess you could call it a "tax" if you want...but you're not "taxed" on it when you're paid. It has no effect on your taxable wages reported on your tax return. It's not included in your gross wages on your W-2.

(08-01-2024 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 01:02 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 12:55 PM)TigerCane Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 11:32 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  Isn't SS already taxed when you get your paycheck? Isn't that a double tax?

No, when you work, they withhold SS and remit it to the government. It's not "taxed."

When you file for SS, you then receive money.

You can still earn income and have income other than SS when you retire.

If you do and it exceeds the threshold, some of your SS is then taxable.

It is taxed. The amount that is withheld is included in your gross wages on your W-2. You don't get to deduct FICA & Medicare. As to whether your benefits are taxable when you receive them:


"Your Social Security benefits could be taxable, depending on your situation. According to the IRS, the best way to see if you’ll owe taxes on your Social Security income is to take one-half of your Social Security benefits and add that amount to all your other income. This includes tax-exempt interest. This number is known as your combined income, and this is how it’s calculated:

Combined Income = Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) + Nontaxable Interest + 1/2 of Social Security Benefits

If your combined income is above a certain limit (the IRS calls this limit the base amount), you will need to pay at least some tax. The limit for 2023 and 2024 is $25,000 if you are a single filer, head of household or qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child. The 2023 and 2024 limit for joint filers is $32,000. However, if you’re married and file separately, you’ll likely have to pay taxes on your Social Security income".

"For married couples filing a joint return, you’ll pay taxes on up to 50% of your Social Security income if you have a combined income of $32,000 to $44,000. If you have a combined income of more than $44,000, you can expect to pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security payments".

Is Social Security Taxable?

I think Tom is saying it isn't taxed twice, once on your original paycheck and then again when you withdraw.

Correct...there's no "tax" on your paycheck...it's a withholding from your pay that is remitted to the government and then you get it back when you reach the appropriate age.

I guess you could call it a "tax" if you want...but you're not "taxed" on it when you're paid. It has no effect on your taxable wages reported on your tax return. It's not included in your gross wages on your W-2.

But that's my point. The amount withheld has no effect on your taxable wages. It is deducted from your check and sent to the government but that payroll deduction did not reduce your gross income, so you are paying income tax on a gross wage amount that was not reduced by the withholding. Hence it was taxed at the time you earned it.

Gross wage $1000.00
Fed W/H 100.00
Fica 76.50
Net pay $823.50

Your W-2 is going to show $1000 taxable income which includes the withholding and the Fica.