(09-18-2023 12:09 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 08:33 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

Marshall has as many NCAA March Madness Tournament wins in the last 10 years as Memphis. Afterthought my rear end.

The SBC DOUBLED its men's basketball attendance this year. The SBC DOUBLED its mens basketball national television appearances last year. They are implementing new scheduling standards for men's basketball. With teams like JMU, ODU, Marshall, Southern Miss now in the league, there is a basketball focus.

With the huge leaps this league has been making across the board in the last three years, I am looking forward to seeing where this league is going in men's basketball too. This league is ALOT better than people are giving it credit for in basketball. And really, all the gyms in this league are high quality. JMU and Georgia State have just opened brand new facilities in the last two years.

It doubled because four new teams consistently average that number, not because any of the remaining ten give a hoot. In the decade we were in the Belt, us and Louisiana were the only schools above 2,000 consistently.

You'll find the SBC will be a one-bid league as it has been for the better part of a decade and a half.

I also find it funny how you are cherry-picking certain stats to bolster your claim. Why not bring up men's soccer attendance like you did basketball? Truth is, the SBC finished this past year in roughly the same spot they've been in the recent past. ...

Pointing to football and basketball attendance is not "cherry picking" ... they are the two main revenue college sports in this country.

It is also true that the picture painted by the SBC attendance stats seems to be less the SBC programs "building up" their basketball programs and more the SBC "building up" its basketball relevance by adding schools that raised the SBC's average basketball quality, but as far as conference NET, that still counts.

It's also true that last season, the American had one at-large NCAA bid, and two at-large NIT bids, while the Sunbelt only had its automatic bid in the NCAA, with its NCAA automatic bid seeded five spots lower than the second of the American's teams, its regular season champion having to take the NIT spot, and its only at-large bid in the NIT.

Still, the NCAA 1-seed from the American and both of the at-large NIT bids are now in the Big12, and having an NIT at-large bid is a step up from where the Sunbelt was five years ago in basketball.

So whether the AAC remains substantially better than the Sunbelt in basketball when the rubber hits the road is still something to be determined.

(09-17-2023 05:47 PM)8993 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

This is such a wild take to me.

"Fans care about markets." I pulled some data from the past five years surrounding those market schools you speak of. To be fair to each market program, I pulled data from 2017 to 2022, not including 2020 for obvious reasons.

• In those five seasons, Tulane, which calls beautiful New Orleans home, sold out its 30k capacity stadium just twice. Its five-year attendance average was 18,503.
• In those five seasons, Houston sold out its 40k capacity stadium just once. Its five-year attendance average was 30,393.
• UCF, in sunny Orlando, sold out its 45k capacity stadium four times. Its five-year attendance average was 40,176.
• Tulsa, which calls Tulsa, Oklahoma, a city of nearly half a million people, sold out its 30k stadium not a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 17,922.
• Memphis sold out its 59k stadium once. Its five-year attendance average was 34,787.
• UNCC, in Charlotte, NC, sold out its 15k capacity stadium three times. Its five-year attendance average was 12,683.
• Rice, in Houston, TX, did not sell out its 47k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,355.
• UNT, in the Dallas-Fort Worth metro, did not sell out its 31k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,724.

Fans don't give a damn about academics either. Let's look at some top-20 institutions in the nation: Stanford's five-year attendance average for its 50k capacity stadium was 40,417. Duke's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 24,915. Northwestern's five-year attendance average for its 47k capacity stadium was 36,588. Vanderbilt's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 28,075. Cal's five-year attendance average for its 63k capacity stadium was 41,172.

So, just to clarify: neither markets nor academics put butts in seats. Good football does. Good programs do. Rabid fan-bases do. Local games do. Storied rivalries do. The underdog does. But please continue to move the goal post as you rationalize why your 'home team' can't fill 'em up.

You know who give a darn about in-stadium attendance, though? Neither fans nor suits.

According to Vegas odds, the Sun Belt is currently expected to go 7-1 this upcoming weekend against FBS non-conference opponents.

The expected loss? Wyoming is a 2.5 point favorite over Appalachian State (in Laramie).

By the same metric, the AAC is expected to go 0-8 vs. FBS non-conference opponents this upcoming weekend. If you include Army, it's 0-9.

(09-18-2023 06:46 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  According to Vegas odds, the Sun Belt is currently expected to go 7-1 this upcoming weekend against FBS non-conference opponents.

The expected loss? Wyoming is a 2.5 point favorite over Appalachian State (in Laramie).

By the same metric, the AAC is expected to go 0-8 vs. FBS non-conference opponents this upcoming weekend. If you include Army, it's 0-9.

According to Vegas odds, Iowa State beat Ohio University on Saturday by between 2 and 3 points, while the UC Bearcats beat the Miami Redhawks by two touchdowns. Fortunately for both Bricks, they still play the games, so they were both able to record a win.

(09-18-2023 05:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Fresno State is the top G5 program right now. SBC schools are not even in the conversation except for JMU. JMU is not qualify for a NY 6 bowl nor the playoffs yet until next year.

its only been 3 weeks.

no one was talking about tulane after week 3 as being anything other than having a nice win over Kansas State (they would lose to a sunbelt team in week 4).

We have a long season and the MWC looks salty. So does the sunbelt. Tulane has the easiest path even though they won't have a P5 win.

(09-18-2023 07:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 06:46 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  According to Vegas odds, the Sun Belt is currently expected to go 7-1 this upcoming weekend against FBS non-conference opponents.

The expected loss? Wyoming is a 2.5 point favorite over Appalachian State (in Laramie).

By the same metric, the AAC is expected to go 0-8 vs. FBS non-conference opponents this upcoming weekend. If you include Army, it's 0-9.

According to Vegas odds, Iowa State beat Ohio University on Saturday by between 2 and 3 points, while the UC Bearcats beat the Miami Redhawks by two touchdowns. Fortunately for both Bricks, they still play the games, so they were both able to record a win.

I didn't say it's going to happen. Simply reporting odds. Obviously I want to beat Wyoming, and I think we can.

(09-18-2023 06:23 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 05:47 PM)8993 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

This is such a wild take to me.

"Fans care about markets." I pulled some data from the past five years surrounding those market schools you speak of. To be fair to each market program, I pulled data from 2017 to 2022, not including 2020 for obvious reasons.

• In those five seasons, Tulane, which calls beautiful New Orleans home, sold out its 30k capacity stadium just twice. Its five-year attendance average was 18,503.
• In those five seasons, Houston sold out its 40k capacity stadium just once. Its five-year attendance average was 30,393.
• UCF, in sunny Orlando, sold out its 45k capacity stadium four times. Its five-year attendance average was 40,176.
• Tulsa, which calls Tulsa, Oklahoma, a city of nearly half a million people, sold out its 30k stadium not a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 17,922.
• Memphis sold out its 59k stadium once. Its five-year attendance average was 34,787.
• UNCC, in Charlotte, NC, sold out its 15k capacity stadium three times. Its five-year attendance average was 12,683.
• Rice, in Houston, TX, did not sell out its 47k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,355.
• UNT, in the Dallas-Fort Worth metro, did not sell out its 31k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,724.

Fans don't give a damn about academics either. Let's look at some top-20 institutions in the nation: Stanford's five-year attendance average for its 50k capacity stadium was 40,417. Duke's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 24,915. Northwestern's five-year attendance average for its 47k capacity stadium was 36,588. Vanderbilt's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 28,075. Cal's five-year attendance average for its 63k capacity stadium was 41,172.

So, just to clarify: neither markets nor academics put butts in seats. Good football does. Good programs do. Rabid fan-bases do. Local games do. Storied rivalries do. The underdog does. But please continue to move the goal post as you rationalize why your 'home team' can't fill 'em up.

You know who give a darn about in-stadium attendance, though? Neither fans nor suits.

But wait, I was told that markets matter? That markets are what fans care most about? Markets lead to higher numbers, right? Hmm...

Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

https://www.espn.com/college-football/in...-takeaways


Conference rankings

SEC: 15.4 average SP+ (34.6 offense, 19.3 defense)

Pac-12: 10.4 average SP+ (33.6 offense, 23.3 defense)

Big 12: 10.0 average SP+ (32.5 offense, 22.6 defense)

Big Ten: 9.6 average SP+ (27.5 offense, 18.0 defense)

ACC: 7.6 average SP+ (29.5 offense, 21.9 defense)

Sun Belt: -6.5 average SP+ (22.6 offense, 29.1 defense)

AAC: -7.7 average SP+ (23.6 offense, 31.2 defense)

MWC: -9.2 average SP+ (19.6 offense, 28.8 defense)

Conference USA: -11.4 average SP+ (20.4 offense, 31.8 defense)

MAC: -14.6 average SP+ (17.4 offense, 31.8 defense)

(09-18-2023 08:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

The AP poll is less relevant than ever. Its just a marketing arm of the entertainment networks.

That being said so far Fresno State has been the most impressive G5 team to date.

(09-17-2023 01:28 PM)Frontierman Wrote:  Sunbelt fans make it hard to root for them with the SEC levels of chest beating but I do have a lot of respect for the huge improvement the sunbelt has shown since they were left for dead and considered a glorified FCS conference all those years ago. I think the days of one G5 dominating the way the AAC has in recent years are over but they have certainly shown that they should continue to be in that conversation for the top G5 every year. It would've been fun to be a part of the rise of that conference but I wouldn't have invited us either for a variety of reasons so I have no hard feelings about it.

It makes a lot more sense when you stop and think about the Sun Belt vs the SEC for a second. Both have roughly the same footprint in the southeastern US, both involve public institutions in mostly smaller/rural college towns, both are football-first with also strong baseball and softball, and many have longstanding established rivalries already. The Sun Belt essentially IS a mini-SEC at this point.

(09-18-2023 08:44 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:28 PM)Frontierman Wrote:  Sunbelt fans make it hard to root for them with the SEC levels of chest beating but I do have a lot of respect for the huge improvement the sunbelt has shown since they were left for dead and considered a glorified FCS conference all those years ago. I think the days of one G5 dominating the way the AAC has in recent years are over but they have certainly shown that they should continue to be in that conversation for the top G5 every year. It would've been fun to be a part of the rise of that conference but I wouldn't have invited us either for a variety of reasons so I have no hard feelings about it.

It makes a lot more sense when you stop and think about the Sun Belt vs the SEC for a second. Both have roughly the same footprint in the southeastern US, both involve public institutions in mostly smaller/rural college towns, both are football-first with also strong baseball and softball, and many have longstanding established rivalries already. The Sun Belt essentially IS a mini-SEC at this point.

That's an interesting comparison. And I essentially agree with you.

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

(09-18-2023 09:13 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

Because you're not looking at it from a perspective other than your own. You have to look at how far the Sun Belt has come (compared to 10+ years ago).

For Cincinnati, it's not a big deal, because the Bearcats were never in what was perceived as the worst conference. Their conference never had to claw their way up the "Group of 5" ladder from the bottom.

(09-18-2023 05:35 AM)GreenDaddy Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 05:10 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 04:49 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

Hey ghostofclt! Sorry about yesterday. At least we know one Panther team is capable of winning in Charlotte!

Just looked at his rep history, and yup: that's ghostofclt. He now has at least four different accounts:

- ghostofclt!
- Dusky
- FAU Connoisseur!
- Thewavefan

Honestly, the fact that mods across the site allow him to do this brings CSNBBS's legitimacy down. It's sad, because these boards are fun.

He needs help.

I noticed the same thing when I checked the AAC board. It is exceptionally odd.

The 3rd person "ghostofclt! says..." schtick in every post is the lamest, unfunniest schtick I've seen on the internet. Apparently, he's under the impression it's the funniest thing in the world.

(09-18-2023 08:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

Interestingly, the G5s are almost drawing dead entirely.

#30 Fresno (17)
#32 Tulane (13)

That's it.

(09-18-2023 09:13 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

The Sun Belt champion was once 5-7. Today, it's the highest rated G5 conference.

I'd say that's a meteoric rise.

I think the Sun Belt's rise, at least with regards to the football performance G5 pecking-order this season, is less about them getting better than the AAC collapsing.