(09-17-2023 04:08 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 03:58 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 09:06 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  One of the under-rated story lines of college football this year.

The league never had a team ranked in the AP poll until 2016 and that lasted all of one week. In 2014 after the realignment that happened in 2013 the 11 Sun Belt teams won 4 FBS non-conference games in the regular-season.

Fast forward to this year and the Sun Belt has topped that mark in each of the last 2 weeks and is poised to be the top G5 league in the rankings by a fairly comfortable margin.

It's an exciting time to be in the league that was once considered the bottom of the food chain in realignment.

Easy to become top dog in G5 when almost every strong G5 team from the past has moved up into P5. Add in the MWC going downhill, AFA, Fresno, Wyoming are pretty good, the rest of the league is avg to trash. AAC lost the big schools, CUSA and MAC would be 3rd, 4th, maybe 5th best FCS league. Good for the SBC, but it wasn't that hard.

People said the same thing about any JaxSt, SHSU, KSU relevance in FCS. Only got good once App, GaSo, CCU moved up. Just because that's what people say doesn't change the reality of the current situation. They are FBS. SBC is the best G5. AAC isn't.

We've heard this every year for the last decade from some blowhard conference, and its yet to come to fruition.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings?c=1

1) SEC
2) Pac-12
3) Big Ten
4) Big 12
5) ACC
6) Sun Belt
7) Mountain West
8) Independents
9) AAC
10) C-USA
11) MAC

Look, we all know that what most people will remember is who gets the NY6 bid. SBC has a LOT to be proud of, especially considering its past as the "Belch," but it's too soon to be crowned king. But also, it's too early for anyone to be crowned king. Today's AAC is not the same as before. Everyone has to prove themselves.

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

Hey ghostofclt! Sorry about yesterday. At least we know one Panther team is capable of winning in Charlotte!

(09-17-2023 10:35 AM)bullet Wrote:  G5 leagues tend to be cyclical. In 2013, the SB had the best G5 record vs. FBS, 15-17. The next year they were 5-32 and the year after that 7-32.

But the Sun Belt does seem to have moved past the CUSA and MAC.

Not as much as you would think.


Starting in 2016, the Sun Belt has always finished above CUSA.

Starting in 2019, the Sun Belt has always finished above the MAC.

Last year was the first year the Sun Belt finished above the Mountain West, and we're ahead of them again this year.

This year is the first year the Sun Belt is above the AAC.


Moving up every season.

(09-17-2023 04:49 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

Hey ghostofclt! Sorry about yesterday. At least we know one Panther team is capable of winning in Charlotte!

Just looked at his rep history, and yup: that's ghostofclt. He now has at least four different accounts:

- ghostofclt!
- Dusky
- FAU Connoisseur!
- Thewavefan

Honestly, the fact that mods across the site allow him to do this brings CSNBBS's legitimacy down. It's sad, because these boards are fun.

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

This is such a wild take to me.

"Fans care about markets." I pulled some data from the past five years surrounding those market schools you speak of. To be fair to each market program, I pulled data from 2017 to 2022, not including 2020 for obvious reasons.

• In those five seasons, Tulane, which calls beautiful New Orleans home, sold out its 30k capacity stadium just twice. Its five-year attendance average was 18,503.
• In those five seasons, Houston sold out its 40k capacity stadium just once. Its five-year attendance average was 30,393.
• UCF, in sunny Orlando, sold out its 45k capacity stadium four times. Its five-year attendance average was 40,176.
• Tulsa, which calls Tulsa, Oklahoma, a city of nearly half a million people, sold out its 30k stadium not a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 17,922.
• Memphis sold out its 59k stadium once. Its five-year attendance average was 34,787.
• UNCC, in Charlotte, NC, sold out its 15k capacity stadium three times. Its five-year attendance average was 12,683.
• Rice, in Houston, TX, did not sell out its 47k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,355.
• UNT, in the Dallas-Fort Worth metro, did not sell out its 31k capacity stadium a single time. Its five-year attendance average was 20,724.

Fans don't give a damn about academics either. Let's look at some top-20 institutions in the nation: Stanford's five-year attendance average for its 50k capacity stadium was 40,417. Duke's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 24,915. Northwestern's five-year attendance average for its 47k capacity stadium was 36,588. Vanderbilt's five-year attendance average for its 40k capacity stadium was 28,075. Cal's five-year attendance average for its 63k capacity stadium was 41,172.

So, just to clarify: neither markets nor academics put butts in seats. Good football does. Good programs do. Rabid fan-bases do. Local games do. Storied rivalries do. The underdog does. But please continue to move the goal post as you rationalize why your 'home team' can't fill 'em up.

(09-17-2023 02:26 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Fans care about winning.

SBC has the advantage over AAC in head to head matchups so far.

MWC has two teams in the polls above the AAC's top team.

AAC is on a downward trend, bub.

I don't disagree overall but the AAC has lost three top football brands to the B12 and soon-to-be one to the ACC. How many Sun Belt teams have left for greener pastures? Also, when was the last Sun Belt team to qualify for the NY6 bowls? I'll wait on that one...

I have no ill will toward you or the Sun Belt but maybe earn your keep for a few seasons before you start pumping the chest...

(09-17-2023 05:53 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:26 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Fans care about winning.

SBC has the advantage over AAC in head to head matchups so far.

MWC has two teams in the polls above the AAC's top team.

AAC is on a downward trend, bub.

I don't disagree overall but the AAC has lost three top football brands to the B12 and soon-to-be one to the ACC. How many Sun Belt teams have left for greener pastures? Also, when was the last Sun Belt team to qualify for the NY6 bowls? I'll wait on that one...

I have no ill will toward you or the Sun Belt but maybe earn your keep for a few seasons before you start pumping the chest...

My stance is that there is no king anymore. Yes, Tulane and Memphis have made NY6 bowl games, with Tulane getting a big-time win, but an AAC without the four who have left/will leave just is not the same.

The whole thing is up for grabs. As a fan of a team in the Sun Belt, which has gone from a punchline of a conference to one that's become pretty formidable, coinciding with the top competitor getting undeniably weakened, I am rightfully excited. I think the SBC's chances of getting the NY6 bid is as good as anyone's.

As far as how many teams have left for [allegedly] greener pastures? By my count, seven:
- Utah State and NMSU left for the WAC in the mid 2000's, with USU eventually getting to the MW.
- FIU, FAU, WKU, MTSU, and UNT left for C-USA, with three of those eventually getting to the AAC.

None of those, of course, were leagues like the Big East (UConn) or Big 12 or ACC.

(09-17-2023 06:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 05:53 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:26 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Fans care about winning.

SBC has the advantage over AAC in head to head matchups so far.

MWC has two teams in the polls above the AAC's top team.

AAC is on a downward trend, bub.

I don't disagree overall but the AAC has lost three top football brands to the B12 and soon-to-be one to the ACC. How many Sun Belt teams have left for greener pastures? Also, when was the last Sun Belt team to qualify for the NY6 bowls? I'll wait on that one...

I have no ill will toward you or the Sun Belt but maybe earn your keep for a few seasons before you start pumping the chest...

My stance is that there is no king anymore. Yes, Tulane and Memphis have made NY6 bowl games, with Tulane getting a big-time win, but an AAC without the four who have left/will leave just is not the same.

The whole thing is up for grabs. As a fan of a team in the Sun Belt, which has gone from a punchline of a conference to one that's become pretty formidable, coinciding with the top competitor getting undeniably weakened, I am rightfully excited. I think the SBC's chances of getting the NY6 bid is as good as anyone's.

As far as how many teams have left for [allegedly] greener pastures? By my count, seven:
- Utah State and NMSU left for the WAC in the mid 2000's, with USU eventually getting to the MW.
- FIU, FAU, WKU, MTSU, and UNT left for C-USA, with three of those eventually getting to the AAC.

None of those, of course, were leagues like the Big East (UConn) or Big 12 or ACC.

Correct. I was specifically talking about leaving for a power conference. Again, I agree the spot for the top dog is more wide open now but that doesn't take away from the fact that the American has a recent history of earning its overall success on the field. As I've said many times, it's not so much how you play in September but how you play over the course of the entire season is where it really counts.

I have tremendous respect for the Belt and what it has accomplished in a relatively brief time.

But (and I might be mistaken about this), there is not one SBC member that is trying to be "nationally relevant" (and, yes, defining that term is very subjective) in both football and men's basketball as are, for example, fellow "group league" members San Diego State and Memphis.

It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

So if, for example, AppState football (which I hugely respect) is better than Memphis football any given season, I will give App full props but note to myself that there is, to a degree, an explanation for this.

Again, this is not to take away from Sun Belt football achievements (or SBC baseball and men's soccer, both of which are stellar). Furthermore (and as many of you know), though I strongly cheer for Memphis (and loosely for Cincinnati), I have never been a "fan" of the AAC. I want Memphis out of the league and in the Big 12 (but since that's not going to happen, I want the AAC to do well because, for selfish reasons, that indirectly benefits Memphis).

(09-17-2023 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

Marshall has as many NCAA March Madness Tournament wins in the last 10 years as Memphis. Afterthought my rear end.

The SBC DOUBLED its men's basketball attendance this year. The SBC DOUBLED its mens basketball national television appearances last year. They are implementing new scheduling standards for men's basketball. With teams like JMU, ODU, Marshall, Southern Miss now in the league, there is a basketball focus.

With the huge leaps this league has been making across the board in the last three years, I am looking forward to seeing where this league is going in men's basketball too. This league is ALOT better than people are giving it credit for in basketball. And really, all the gyms in this league are high quality. JMU and Georgia State have just opened brand new facilities in the last two years.

(09-17-2023 11:26 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  It's not just football...

This morning, the SBC has the #2, #3, and #4 teams in men's soccer RPI, and will assuredly have the #1 team in the Coaches Poll on Tuesday this week based on this week's results. The SBC may well be the best conference in men's soccer this year, period. Coastal Carolina is opening a new on-campus soccer stadium, Marshall is about to inject $6m of new stadium improvements before the 2024 season, etc.

SBC Baseball and softball are already well established, but there is SIGNIFICANT facility investments being made. ODU currently has a $20 million renovation project training, Marshall is opening its new $30m baseball stadium in the spring along with a softball-specific indoor training facility, Troy just opened a huge new grandstand renovation, South Alabama has a new grandstand improvement project...
 
Men's basketball saw a nearly doubling of the conference's average attendance last year coupled with a jump up the conference ratings with the addition of the mid-Atlantic basketball programs.

The conference has just added beach volleyball and women's swimming and diving as sponsored sports in the last year. There's talks that they may also be adding field hockey and lacrosse in the near future to further support programs like JMU and ODU which have multiple national titles in those sports.

There's alot to like about the current direction of the league not only in football, but all around the athletics departments of those schools.

Proud member of the Belt in men's soccer!!

(09-17-2023 08:46 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  Proud member of the Belt in men's soccer!!

Be even prouder today -

After today's results - SBC now has the #1, #2, and #3 teams in RPI. And #11 (JMU) just outside the top ten. We will likely have 3 top 5 coaches poll teams on Tuesday, including soon to be #1 Marshall.

Huge top 5 matchup this weekend in Huntington as UCF takes on Marshall in matchup with significant implications.

(09-17-2023 08:33 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

Marshall has as many NCAA March Madness Tournament wins in the last 10 years as Memphis. Afterthought my rear end.

The SBC DOUBLED its men's basketball attendance this year. The SBC DOUBLED its mens basketball national television appearances last year. They are implementing new scheduling standards for men's basketball. With teams like JMU, ODU, Marshall, Southern Miss now in the league, there is a basketball focus.

With the huge leaps this league has been making across the board in the last three years, I am looking forward to seeing where this league is going in men's basketball too. This league is ALOT better than people are giving it credit for in basketball. And really, all the gyms in this league are high quality. JMU and Georgia State have just opened brand new facilities in the last two years.

Marshall is clearly doing the best (of the Belt) in terms of the combo of football and men's hoops. I've always respected Marshall basketball. Very underrated and almost always a respectable team year in and out.

Let's compare Marshall's "lesser sport" (men's hoops) to Memphis' "lesser sport" (football):

Marshall hoops an all-time record of 1522–1138–2 (.572). Memphis football is 510–526–33 (.493) all-time. Edge Marshall.


Marshall has produced only a handful of NBA players of note, led by the legendary Hal Greer (NBA title, all-NBA, hall of fame, etc.). Beyond that, some solid players like Hassan Whiteside and Mike D'Antoni, and that's about it. Memphis has had 12 Pro Bowl and all-pro players. In addition, four other former Tigers started and won Super Bowl games. Edge Memphis.


Marshall hoops has been ranked in the top 25 during two seasons: 1955-56 and 1971-72. Memphis football has been ranked in the top 25 during four seasons (three times in the AP and once in the old UPI). Edge Memphis.


Marshall hoops is 3-12 in NCAA and NIT play. Memphis football is 7-8 in bowl play and played in a NY6 game (lost to Penn State), a game far bigger than any post-season basketball game Marshall has ever played in. Edge Memphis.


Neither program has had many nationally noteworthy coaches. Marshall did, years ago, offer Billy Donovan (outstanding coach) and the legendary Cam Henderson. Allyn McKeen coached at Memphis two years and went on to coach at MissState. He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame posthumously in 1991. Mike Norvell (Florida State) is showing potential to be an elite coach. Edge Marshall.



Both programs draw fairly well at home, as Marshall hoops can sometimes hit 6,000 and Memphis football can sometimes lure 35,000 to 38,000. I would give Memphis a slight edge in this category (though Memphis home football attendance is sometimes helped by visiting SEC teams).


I'm sure there are other categories but it's late and I'm losing energy. Seems this is a fairly close comparison.

As to Marshall's top sport (football) vs. Memphis' top sport (men's basketball) ... Marshall football has been strong over the years. Lots of winning seasons, quality coaches and good players. Memphis basketball counters strongly and some might argue with a clear advantage as there are many observers of the game who feel Memphis hoops is one of the 30 to 35 all-time best programs. I'm biased and feel Memphis hoops has been more influential on a national level than Marshall football has been on a national level. But I'm sure some Marshall fans will disagree.

(And I agree with you that Belt hoops is showing some potential; and congrats on Marshall soccer getting off to a strong start).

It's weird thinking about it. Though it makes sense mainly because after C-USA raided the Sun Belt the first time most of the C-USA adds either seemed to fall flat or were taken by the AAC the second go around. Like North Texas moving from the Sun Belt to C-USA to AAC in around 10 years. With the AAC losing SMU it would be interesting to see who joins them if Army says no. If Army says yes then I'm curious which Olympic sports school gets the AAC invite.

C-USA seems to have fallen alot especially this last go around and is looking like the Sun Belt did about 18 years ago as the conference of call-ups. MAC seems to have just stagnated as a conference. They might get a occasional marque win but kill each other in conference. MWC is the only conference untouched like the Sun Belt. AAC is "weaker" by losing it's top brands. It's going to be interesting to see how the AAC performs the next few seasons.

They’ve gone from the belch into being a very successful regional conference in football. Maybe baseball as well. Their hoops are improving too.

(09-17-2023 08:33 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

Marshall has as many NCAA March Madness Tournament wins in the last 10 years as Memphis. Afterthought my rear end.

The SBC DOUBLED its men's basketball attendance this year. The SBC DOUBLED its mens basketball national television appearances last year. They are implementing new scheduling standards for men's basketball. With teams like JMU, ODU, Marshall, Southern Miss now in the league, there is a basketball focus.

With the huge leaps this league has been making across the board in the last three years, I am looking forward to seeing where this league is going in men's basketball too. This league is ALOT better than people are giving it credit for in basketball. And really, all the gyms in this league are high quality. JMU and Georgia State have just opened brand new facilities in the last two years.

It doubled because four new teams consistently average that number, not because any of the remaining ten give a hoot. In the decade we were in the Belt, us and Louisiana were the only schools above 2,000 consistently.

You'll find the SBC will be a one-bid league as it has been for the better part of a decade and a half.

I also find it funny how you are cherry-picking certain stats to bolster your claim. Why not bring up men's soccer attendance like you did basketball? Truth is, the SBC finished this past year in roughly the same spot they've been in the recent past.

Football, baseball, softball and men's soccer deserve the respect they've earned. But UTA worked to make bball relevant, waiting for some combination of App St, Georgia Southern, Troy, South Alabama, Arkansas St, Coastal and ULM to take it seriously (or athletics in general in ULM's case). Texas State, Louisiana and Georgia State were the only consistent basketball teams in the SBC.

(09-18-2023 12:09 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  I also find it funny how you are cherry-picking certain stats to bolster your claim. Why not bring up men's soccer attendance like you did basketball?

I can, if you insist.

The SBC is #2 nationally in men's soccer attendance.

Fresno State is the top G5 program right now. SBC schools are not even in the conversation except for JMU. JMU is not qualify for a NY 6 bowl nor the playoffs yet until next year.

(09-17-2023 05:10 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 04:49 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 02:15 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 01:44 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  It's mid-September, take it down three to five notches.

Agreed, it’s ridiculous to say the Sunbelt had achieved anything other than winning a few games. In order to be successful as a major conference player there must be markets and academics which the belt does not have. They can beat Oklahoma State all they want but in the end most college football fans do not care. Fans care about markets and they care about academics and athletic prestige. All of which firmly belong to the AAC.

Hey ghostofclt! Sorry about yesterday. At least we know one Panther team is capable of winning in Charlotte!

Just looked at his rep history, and yup: that's ghostofclt. He now has at least four different accounts:

- ghostofclt!
- Dusky
- FAU Connoisseur!
- Thewavefan

Honestly, the fact that mods across the site allow him to do this brings CSNBBS's legitimacy down. It's sad, because these boards are fun.

He needs help.