MIT, Johns Hopkins, maybe Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

Outside of the states of current Ivy League school I limited my choices to Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and maybe Virginia. I looked at Forbes and USNWR rankings, acceptance rates, and endowments. They also had to be private. The school would probably need to be no worse than any of the current school's rankings and have an acceptance rate under 10%.


Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

If the Ivy League was actually interested in expanding it seems that only MIT would be guaranteed to get in with Johns Hopkins and Georgetown being a maybe and Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts being stretches.

(07-15-2023 12:14 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:11 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  UAA schools and Rice

I think Rutgers would be a great fit. lol (I'm again kidding.)

Seriously though, there is a bit of logic in that joke. Prior to American independence, there were 9 full degree granting universities in the colonies. 7 of the 9 are currently in the Ivy League (everyone but Cornell). So the other 2 could be a possibility. Those other 2 are William & Mary and Rutgers.

If they ever expanded with historic American institutions as a priority, William & Mary, Navy, and Army would be excellent fits. I have always thought that 11 teams for a conference is a solid number because it works so well for round robin schedules in many sports. Problems arise when conference tournament time comes around, though, unless the bottom three teams do not qualify. If they went 12, there are a multitude of decent options that have already been mentioned in the northeast for that last slot.

(07-15-2023 12:14 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:11 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  UAA schools and Rice

I think Rutgers would be a great fit. lol (I'm again kidding.)

Seriously though, there is a bit of logic in that joke. Prior to American independence, there were 9 full degree granting universities in the colonies. 7 of the 9 are currently in the Ivy League (everyone but Cornell). So the other 2 could be a possibility. Those other 2 are William & Mary and Rutgers.

Doubt the Ivies want fully public schools to join. Agree that the UAA schools (except URochester) would be considered.

(07-15-2023 12:14 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:11 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  UAA schools and Rice

I think Rutgers would be a great fit. lol (I'm again kidding.)

Seriously though, there is a bit of logic in that joke. Prior to American independence, there were 9 full degree granting universities in the colonies. 7 of the 9 are currently in the Ivy League (everyone but Cornell). So the other 2 could be a possibility. Those other 2 are William & Mary and Rutgers.

I get where you're coming from, but Rutgers is a public university. All eight Ivy League schools are private universities. It wouldn't be a cultural fit.

(07-15-2023 01:25 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  MIT, Johns Hopkins, maybe Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

Outside of the states of current Ivy League school I limited my choices to Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and maybe Virginia. I looked at Forbes and USNWR rankings, acceptance rates, and endowments. They also had to be private. The school would probably need to be no worse than any of the current school's rankings and have an acceptance rate under 10%.


Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

If the Ivy League was actually interested in expanding it seems that only MIT would be guaranteed to get in with Johns Hopkins and Georgetown being a maybe and Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts being stretches.

Wouldn't they have to play football? That narrows the field considerably. And while Georgetown is private, it is also Catholic (Jesuit), and that could be enough to blackball them. I don't see the Ivy League adding any school. It's not like they need to.

They very much thought about Northwestern and the military schools in the early 80s when they were trying to stay D1A.

Think about schools on NW level. Those are the choices. It's pretty select.

(07-15-2023 10:47 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 12:14 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:11 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  UAA schools and Rice

I think Rutgers would be a great fit. lol (I'm again kidding.)

Seriously though, there is a bit of logic in that joke. Prior to American independence, there were 9 full degree granting universities in the colonies. 7 of the 9 are currently in the Ivy League (everyone but Cornell). So the other 2 could be a possibility. Those other 2 are William & Mary and Rutgers.

I get where you're coming from, but Rutgers is a public university. All eight Ivy League schools are private universities. It wouldn't be a cultural fit.

Cornell is private but receives quite a bit of public funding. Kind of a hybrid there.

(07-15-2023 01:25 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

The admissions numbers for MIT and Georgetown are understated because neither accepts the Common Application. Were they do to so, the acceptance rate drops by about half.

(07-15-2023 05:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 01:25 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  MIT, Johns Hopkins, maybe Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

Outside of the states of current Ivy League school I limited my choices to Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and maybe Virginia. I looked at Forbes and USNWR rankings, acceptance rates, and endowments. They also had to be private. The school would probably need to be no worse than any of the current school's rankings and have an acceptance rate under 10%.


Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

If the Ivy League was actually interested in expanding it seems that only MIT would be guaranteed to get in with Johns Hopkins and Georgetown being a maybe and Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts being stretches.

Wouldn't they have to play football? That narrows the field considerably. And while Georgetown is private, it is also Catholic (Jesuit), and that could be enough to blackball them. I don't see the Ivy League adding any school. It's not like they need to.

I figured this was a hypothetical situation where the Ivy League was going to admit at least one school. I don't expect the Ivy League to actually expand. There is so much more to admitting a school that taking 2 ranking systems at face value, endowment, and how many people they let in.

Yes, not having a football team currently would count against a team in a real life situation, and possibly so would Georgetown being Catholic. I didn't want to delve too deep when I wasn't taking it 100% seriously.

I would figure any team that didn't have a football stadium could use a nearby stadium or afford to build their own. They all have stadiums if they don't have teams except for NYU which uses Gaelic Park at Manhattan college for soccer. Starting a team for NYU would be easier than making sure any stadium was large enough.

(07-15-2023 07:25 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The admissions numbers for MIT and Georgetown are understated because neither accepts the Common Application. Were they do to so, the acceptance rate drops by about half.

I'm sure it makes it easier to determine who to admit, but it still is the acceptance rate.

(07-15-2023 05:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 01:25 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  MIT, Johns Hopkins, maybe Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

Outside of the states of current Ivy League school I limited my choices to Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and maybe Virginia. I looked at Forbes and USNWR rankings, acceptance rates, and endowments. They also had to be private. The school would probably need to be no worse than any of the current school's rankings and have an acceptance rate under 10%.


Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

If the Ivy League was actually interested in expanding it seems that only MIT would be guaranteed to get in with Johns Hopkins and Georgetown being a maybe and Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts being stretches.

Wouldn't they have to play football? That narrows the field considerably. And while Georgetown is private, it is also Catholic (Jesuit), and that could be enough to blackball them. I don't see the Ivy League adding any school. It's not like they need to.

1) Would they "NEED" to play football? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, for the Ivy League, I don't think football is the "make or break" issue.

2) MOST of the Ivy League were started as "Church Schools." Princeton was Presbyterian, Penn was Quaker, Yale was Anglican/Episcopalian, Harvard was Unitarian, Brown was Baptist... In olden days, "Jesuit" would have been indeed a "blackball" but I think it means that Georgetown actually has an institutional "fit".

(07-15-2023 05:57 PM)Buckeye22 Wrote:  They very much thought about Northwestern and the military schools in the early 80s when they were trying to stay D1A.

Think about schools on NW level. Those are the choices. It's pretty select.

And Northwestern is soon to have an Ivy-caliber football stadium, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.

What about Army and Navy? They're Patriot League schools, meaning their ethos athletically is similar to the Ivy's.

Speaking of the Patriot League, those schools would LOVE to join the Ivy League; they would leave in an instant if invited (in most cases).

I've heard Army and Navy and the Ivy have been at odds with each other politically in the past, particularly during the Vietnam War.

Johns Hopkins should have been in the Ivy long ago. Throw in MIT

(07-15-2023 06:00 PM)Buckeye22 Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 10:47 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 12:14 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:11 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(07-14-2023 03:09 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  UAA schools and Rice

I think Rutgers would be a great fit. lol (I'm again kidding.)

Seriously though, there is a bit of logic in that joke. Prior to American independence, there were 9 full degree granting universities in the colonies. 7 of the 9 are currently in the Ivy League (everyone but Cornell). So the other 2 could be a possibility. Those other 2 are William & Mary and Rutgers.

I get where you're coming from, but Rutgers is a public university. All eight Ivy League schools are private universities. It wouldn't be a cultural fit.

Cornell is private but receives quite a bit of public funding. Kind of a hybrid there.

Cornell is NY's land grant university. Four of its schools (Ag, Veterinary, Industrial/Labor Relations, Human Ecology) are statutory (State) schools. For in-state residents, if you are enrolled in one of these schools, you get a discount on attending Cornell, but you are still paying a premium over going to a SUNY school.

(07-15-2023 10:20 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 05:57 PM)Buckeye22 Wrote:  They very much thought about Northwestern and the military schools in the early 80s when they were trying to stay D1A.

Think about schools on NW level. Those are the choices. It's pretty select.

And Northwestern is soon to have an Ivy-caliber football stadium, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.

Their current stadium is Ivy level. Most existing Ivy stadiums are showing their age and are oversized for the current attendance levels. The new stadium will have way more bells and whistles than any Ivy League facility.

Its about academics
Harvey Mudd
Cal Tech
John Hopkins
MIT
Tufts
Pomona
Chicago
Washington - St Louis
Amhearst
NYU
Washington and Lee

(07-16-2023 11:32 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Its about academics

None of those will ever be considered. Academics are the first cut, but no Division III program has the base of athletic team support that would be necessary to compete in the Ivy.

If the Ivy League were to expand, I think Georgetown would be the best choice. Adding DC to the NE cities would be a great fit, plus since the Ivys dominate elite levels of government it would be a natural to have the schools visit DC. Maybe if Georgetown joined the Ivy League they could build a 5k seat arena close to campus. Would be a huge blow to the Big East.

(07-15-2023 09:51 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 05:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-15-2023 01:25 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  MIT, Johns Hopkins, maybe Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

Outside of the states of current Ivy League school I limited my choices to Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware, DC, and maybe Virginia. I looked at Forbes and USNWR rankings, acceptance rates, and endowments. They also had to be private. The school would probably need to be no worse than any of the current school's rankings and have an acceptance rate under 10%.


Acceptance rate USNWR Rank Forbes Rank Endowment
Brown 5.40% 13 19 $6.5 billion
Columbia 3.70% 18 5 $13.3 billion
Cornell 8.70% 17 16 $9.8 billion
Dartmouth 6.20% 12 14 $8.1 billion
Harvard 3.40% 3 (tie) 15 $50.9 billion
Penn 5.70% 7 10 $20.7 billion
Princeton 4.00% 1 4 $35.8 billion
Yale 4.60% 3 (tie) 8 $42.3 billion
MIT 4.00% 2 1 $24.6 billion
Johns Hopkins 8.00% 7 18 $9.3 billion
Georgetown 12.00% 22 (tie) 21 $9.3 billion
Carnegie Mellon 14.00% 22 (tie) 46 $3.0 billion
NYU 13.00% 25 60 $5.8 billion
Tufts 11.00% 32 32 $2.4 billion

If the Ivy League was actually interested in expanding it seems that only MIT would be guaranteed to get in with Johns Hopkins and Georgetown being a maybe and Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and Tufts being stretches.

Wouldn't they have to play football? That narrows the field considerably. And while Georgetown is private, it is also Catholic (Jesuit), and that could be enough to blackball them. I don't see the Ivy League adding any school. It's not like they need to.

1) Would they "NEED" to play football? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, for the Ivy League, I don't think football is the "make or break" issue.

2) MOST of the Ivy League were started as "Church Schools." Princeton was Presbyterian, Penn was Quaker, Yale was Anglican/Episcopalian, Harvard was Unitarian, Brown was Baptist... In olden days, "Jesuit" would have been indeed a "blackball" but I think it means that Georgetown actually has an institutional "fit".

In olden days, the prime motivation for starting a college was to train ministers, not educate the general public. The divinity schools still operating in the Ivy League are now play a very minor role in their institutions. And while all Jesuit universities tend to be pretty secular, and there are a lot of them in the Ivy footprint, I doubt if many Ivies would see Georgetown as an institutional fit. They may see them as academic peers, but that's not the same thing.