It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

There is no possible way you just typed this with a straight face.

(06-21-2023 08:29 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

There is no possible way you just typed this with a straight face.

Then make an argument, skippy. Instead of your usual pointless observations.

And with all the bluster for YEARS about you guys wanting Hillary jailed for far less, it bolsters my point, that you know that trump is guilty. You have to know that what he did was wrong. So unless you show all the "evidence" of government corruption here, you have no ground to stand on.

If you are watching Durham before the house now and it is not perfectly clear why Trump was indicted at this time you are a perfect fool. Or an America hating socialist-communist. That is all.

Russia Russia Russia!!!!

We live in bazzarro world. Thank you demoncrap. I’ll see y’all in Idiocracy.

(06-21-2023 06:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The MAL raid was what, 10 months ago? Not. Once. Has a trump lawyer made a claim on the record in a court of law that so much as one document was planted.
But sure, go on believing documents were.
You guys will believe anything from the mouth of that swine. And many here want to claim his detractors are the ones suffering from some sort of derangement?!?

I don't believe anything that Trump or any of his lackeys say.

I believe documents may have been planted because the people running DOJ/FBI/CIA are evil bastards who would do anything to secure a, "show me the man and I'll find you a crime," indictment.

Whether they can secure a conviction or not depends on what can actually meet the standards as admissible evidence and how credible and compelling that is to a jury.

(06-21-2023 08:44 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  If you are watching Durham before the house now and it is not perfectly clear why Trump was indicted at this time you are a perfect fool. Or an America hating socialist-communist. That is all.

They dont care. They hate America and themselves. They wanna flood the country with illegals, take everything youve worked for, groom your kids and leave you defenseless.

By any means necessary.

(06-21-2023 08:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:29 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

There is no possible way you just typed this with a straight face.

Then make an argument, skippy. Instead of your usual pointless observations.

And with all the bluster for YEARS about you guys wanting Hillary jailed for far less, it bolsters my point, that you know that trump is guilty. You have to know that what he did was wrong. So unless you show all the "evidence" of government corruption here, you have no ground to stand on.

I've made the argument, sparky.

Jailed for far less? And you have the audacity to call anything anyone else posts pointless? You have to be a troll because nobody could be that stupid.

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

The greatest threat to our national security is posed by the evil bastards who run DOJ/FBI/CIA, who think they can override the will of the voters in order to impose their own wishes.

Think back to the text exchange between Strzok and his squeeze. Those messages evidenced incredible greed and hubris. They basically say, "We at FBI can override the will of the people." And that's the way that senior bureaucrats think, across the board. In the last 100 years or so, Congress has ceded incredible amounts of power to nameless, faceless, and unaccountable bureaucrats at a proliferation of alphabet-soup administrative agencies. Those people now run the country, regardless of what voters want, and they have plans to get anybody who threatens to kick over their rice bowls.

The USA is no longer a democracy or a republic. It is a system of collective leadership, run by career bureaucrats who believe it is their God-given right to interfere in every activity of the citizens, and God forbid any attempt to put fetters on their authority. The crown jewel cementing this in place was the damned patRIOT act. I remember a conversation with Ron Paul about his personal campaign against the act. He told of speaking with a fellow representative, going over all of the constitutional abuses contained in the act, and the other person agreed with him that it was a terrible, terrible act. "So," Ron asked, "can I count on your vote against it?" Replied the colleague, "Ron, I can't vote against something called the patriot act. My constituents would kill me."

They saw Donald Trump as a threat, so they tried to destroy him, and it's starting to look like they have succeeded. Joe Biden and the democrats are in bed with the bureaucrats, and therefore I see them as the greater threat.

I don't know how we get out of this.

(06-21-2023 10:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

The greatest threat to our national security is posed by the evil bastards who run DOJ/FBI/CIA, who think they can override the will of the voters in order to impose their own wishes.

Think back to the text exchange between Strzok and his squeeze. Those messages evidenced incredible greed and hubris. And that's the way that senior bureaucrats think, across the board. In the last 100 years or so, Congress has ceded incredible amounts of power to nameless, faceless, and unaccountable bureaucrats at a proliferation of alphabet-soup administrative agencies. Those people now run the country, regardless of what voters want, and they have plans to get anybody who threatens to kick over their rice bowls.

The USA is no longer a democracy or a republic. It is a system of collective leadership, run by career bureaucrats who believe it is their God-given right to interfere in every activity of the citizens, and God forbid any attempt to put fetters on their authority. The crown jewel cementing this in place was the damned patRIOT act. I remember a conversation with Ron Paul about his personal campaign against the act. He told of speaking with a fellow representative, going over all of the constitutional abuses contained in the act, and the other person agreed with him that it was a terrible, terrible act. "So," Ron asked, "can I count on your vote against it?" Replied the colleague, "Ron, I can't vote against something called the patriot act. My constituents would kill me."

They saw Donald Trump as a threat, so they tried to destroy him, and it's starting to look like they have succeeded. Joe Biden and the democrats are in bed with the bureaucrats, and therefore I see them as the greater threat.

I don't know how we get out of this.

I think DJT proved he's not the one to get us out of this. We need someone more competent, better able to evaluate the character of people around him and better able to get people to work with him, while willing to take tough actions to purge the politicians out of DOJ and FBI and to neuter the EPA totalitarians.

(06-21-2023 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  I think DJT proved he's not the one to get us out of this. We need someone more competent, better able to evaluate the character of people around him and better able to get people to work with him, while willing to take tough actions to purge the politicians out of DOJ and FBI and to neuter the EPA totalitarians.

You also need to get the "yes men" away from whoever is going to fix it. You've got to get competent people who don't just say what the President wants to hear. That will require a lot of debate among the inner circle as to the best path forward... not people just agreeing to keep a job.

(06-21-2023 10:18 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  I think DJT proved he's not the one to get us out of this. We need someone more competent, better able to evaluate the character of people around him and better able to get people to work with him, while willing to take tough actions to purge the politicians out of DOJ and FBI and to neuter the EPA totalitarians.

You also need to get the "yes men" away from whoever is going to fix it. You've got to get competent people who don't just say what the President wants to hear. That will require a lot of debate among the inner circle as to the best path forward... not people just agreeing to keep a job.

Good luck to you both.

(06-21-2023 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  I think DJT proved he's not the one to get us out of this. We need someone more competent, better able to evaluate the character of people around him and better able to get people to work with him, while willing to take tough actions to purge the politicians out of DOJ and FBI and to neuter the EPA totalitarians.

I would agree with this, which is why I am not a Trump supporter. I frankly hope they can convict him of something, for two reasons:

1) As long as he is a viable candidate, the republicans can't with with him and they can't win without him. Either they can't get independent votes or they can't get the Trump votes.

2) If they succeed in getting him, they just might relax long enough for someone else take up the mantle and make some progress before they react.

Things that I think need to be done to blunt the bureaucrats:
- Repeal the patRIOT act
- Either repeal the FISA act or modify it to provide an ad litem to represent the interests of potential targets
- Revise the Administrative Procedure Act to provide for congressional advise and consent on all new rulemaking, sunset review of every agency and all its regulations every 10 years, and replacing adjudication of disputes by captive ALJs with Article III administrative law courts in every federal judicial district, with appeal up through the circuit courts instead of through the DC Circuit
- Revise the Supreme Court to 13 members, one from each of the 11 numbered federal judicial circuits plus one each from the DC Circuit and Federal Circuit; each party gets to nominate two from currently unrepresented circuits, and each vacancy thereafter must be filled from an unrepresented circuit until all are represented; after that, each seat becomes the seat for that circuit; senior justice becomes CJ, nonvoting except to break a tie; this makes the SCt look like the country and ensures representation of views outside the northeast establishment (now only Gorsuch and Barrett from outside the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and DC Circuits, and only Barrett from a law school other than Harvard or Yale).
- Start moving administrative agencies out of DC. Defense and State stay in DC, rest something like Treasury to New York, Agriculture to Chicago, Energy to Houston or Dallas, HEW (recombined) to Atlanta, Transportation to Detroit, Commerce to LAX, Interior/EPA to Denver, and so forth.
- Consider a revision proposed by Jimmy Carter, of all people, where cabinet is composed of senators. Chairman/ranking member of each committee would become secretary of related department (Defense to SecDef, Foreign Relations to SecState, etc.). This puts political accountability at the top of agencies and also ensures that secretaries have some experience in the area involved. It also gives senators some experience actually running things, which would be useful should any of them become president. Senate becomes more of a combined legislative/executive branch. HOR would become primary legislative group (all legislation originate there) and could function more like a parliamentary system. I could see house speaker becoming more like a prime minister. I could even see extending senate terms to 8 years and HOR to 4, with a proviso for snap house elections like in parliamentary systems.

Just spitballing here, but I do think changes are necessary.

(06-21-2023 08:29 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

There is no possible way you just typed this with a straight face.

He still believes all the Russia stuff as well. Some people believe EVERYTHING they see/hear on the news.

(06-21-2023 01:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:29 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's more than clear that most of the trumpbots here know full well that he's guilty as sin and that he should be nowhere near the oval office or a classified document ever again...however, they put on the game face and defend him to the ends of the earth. Why? Because they see him as the only way to prevent Biden from winning a second term. It boils down to team over country. They'd rather risk our national security to stop Biden. It would be refreshing if even one of them had the stones to admit it.

And if they think that Biden poses a greater risk to our national security, admit that too, and at least put forth a lucid argument to that end.

But please, just stop with the complete horseshit that what trump did was fine...using some made up rationale that every other former president did the same thing (they did not)...or that the "corrupt" government is framing him...or whatever other you believe...

There is no possible way you just typed this with a straight face.

He still believes all the Russia stuff as well. Some people believe EVERYTHING they see/hear on the news.

Dude, blow it out your ass. I abandoned the Russia stuff way before the majority of the left. You're ******* lying.

I've said for years there was no proof of any collusion with trump and that it's not even a crime if there was.

(06-21-2023 09:13 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 08:44 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  If you are watching Durham before the house now and it is not perfectly clear why Trump was indicted at this time you are a perfect fool. Or an America hating socialist-communist. That is all.

They dont care. They hate America and themselves. They wanna flood the country with illegals, take everything youve worked for, groom your kids and leave you defenseless.

By any means necessary.

This may be the most accurate description of Democrats ever posted here. They truly are useless scum of the Earth. Each and every last one of them

(06-21-2023 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-21-2023 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  I think DJT proved he's not the one to get us out of this. We need someone more competent, better able to evaluate the character of people around him and better able to get people to work with him, while willing to take tough actions to purge the politicians out of DOJ and FBI and to neuter the EPA totalitarians.

I would agree with this, which is why I am not a Trump supporter. I frankly hope they can convict him of something, for two reasons:

1) As long as he is a viable candidate, the republicans can't with with him and they can't win without him. Either they can't get independent votes or they can't get the Trump votes.

2) If they succeed in getting him, they just might relax long enough for someone else take up the mantle and make some progress before they react.

Things that I think need to be done to blunt the bureaucrats:
- Repeal the patRIOT act
- Either repeal the FISA act or modify it to provide an ad litem to represent the interests of potential targets
- Revise the Administrative Procedure Act to provide for congressional advise and consent on all new rulemaking, sunset review of every agency and all its regulations every 10 years, and replacing adjudication of disputes by captive ALJs with Article III administrative law courts in every federal judicial district, with appeal up through the circuit courts instead of through the DC Circuit
- Revise the Supreme Court to 13 members, one from each of the 11 numbered federal judicial circuits plus one each from the DC Circuit and Federal Circuit; each party gets to nominate two from currently unrepresented circuits, and each vacancy thereafter must be filled from an unrepresented circuit until all are represented; after that, each seat becomes the seat for that circuit; senior justice becomes CJ, nonvoting except to break a tie; this makes the SCt look like the country and ensures representation of views outside the northeast establishment (now only Gorsuch and Barrett from outside the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and DC Circuits, and only Barrett from a law school other than Harvard or Yale).
- Start moving administrative agencies out of DC. Defense and State stay in DC, rest something like Treasury to New York, Agriculture to Chicago, Energy to Houston or Dallas, HEW (recombined) to Atlanta, Transportation to Detroit, Commerce to LAX, Interior/EPA to Denver, and so forth.
- Consider a revision proposed by Jimmy Carter, of all people, where cabinet is composed of senators. Chairman/ranking member of each committee would become secretary of related department (Defense to SecDef, Foreign Relations to SecState, etc.). This puts political accountability at the top of agencies and also ensures that secretaries have some experience in the area involved. It also gives senators some experience actually running things, which would be useful should any of them become president. Senate becomes more of a combined legislative/executive branch. HOR would become primary legislative group (all legislation originate there) and could function more like a parliamentary system. I could see house speaker becoming more like a prime minister. I could even see extending senate terms to 8 years and HOR to 4, with a proviso for snap house elections like in parliamentary systems.

Just spitballing here, but I do think changes are necessary.

All interesting ideas. I was a strong supporter of the Patriot Act. But now I see it like the reason the Bill of Rights was passed. Government will abuse power when given it. And with technology, there is so much more power than before.

It seems clear judges don't seriously evaluate FISA targets. I think any representation for the target would get compromised as well. It would be a hard sell to get me to support it now.

If Trump gets convicted it just strengthens him. I might even vote for him in a primary!

(06-22-2023 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  If Trump gets convicted it just strengthens him. I might even vote for him in a primary!

They are going so hard to ensure he can't even be on the ballot. It's their entire purpose for the nonsense.

(06-22-2023 10:26 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-22-2023 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  If Trump gets convicted it just strengthens him. I might even vote for him in a primary!

They are going so hard to ensure he is the nominee over any of the other half-dozen or so far more potent Republican options. It's their entire purpose for the nonsense.

As you more technologically astute wizards often say, f.i.f.y.