(04-21-2023 10:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 02:14 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would imagine that ESPN could find a a creative way to buy Florida State out of the ACC's GOR.
Let's see: a payment of $5 Million per team per year for the life of the contract would be $910 Million Stretched out over 13 years should cover the GOR. Of course Florida State would still be on the hook for the exit fee

Knock knock jokes are slightly more entertaining than your variations of the "write a check" line.

Somebody is going to pay if the 'noles leave early. The ACC will take cash.

One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 02:14 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would imagine that ESPN could find a a creative way to buy Florida State out of the ACC's GOR.
Let's see: a payment of $5 Million per team per year for the life of the contract would be $910 Million Stretched out over 13 years should cover the GOR. Of course Florida State would still be on the hook for the exit fee

Knock knock jokes are slightly more entertaining than your variations of the "write a check" line.

Somebody is going to pay if the 'noles leave early. The ACC will take cash.

One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 02:14 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 11:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  I would imagine that ESPN could find a a creative way to buy Florida State out of the ACC's GOR.
Let's see: a payment of $5 Million per team per year for the life of the contract would be $910 Million Stretched out over 13 years should cover the GOR. Of course Florida State would still be on the hook for the exit fee

Knock knock jokes are slightly more entertaining than your variations of the "write a check" line.

Somebody is going to pay if the 'noles leave early. The ACC will take cash.

One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s going down in the next few years” folks.

(04-22-2023 09:03 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 02:14 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  Knock knock jokes are slightly more entertaining than your variations of the "write a check" line.

Somebody is going to pay if the 'noles leave early. The ACC will take cash.

One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s doing down in the next few years” folks.

I know you were. Had the ACC accepted what ESPN tried to give them in 2011, Maryland might not have left, your branding would be as solid as the SEC's, and the revenues would have been almost equal. It would have required that Tobacco Road give up 2 little brothers and add 4 major brands, which were lined up with 2 whales convinced to come, a third wrangling a little brother, and another hoops blueblood. Losing the 2 little brothers plus the additions would mean however a loss of voting control. So, it all fell through costing ESPN a priceless 2 conference rivalry, a lot of control, and costing the ACC a timely and widespread early opening of the ACCN. Of course, this is all merely alleged as failed deals in realignment never happened.

(04-22-2023 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 09:03 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  

Somebody is going to pay if the 'noles leave early. The ACC will take cash.

One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s doing down in the next few years” folks.

I know you were. Had the ACC accepted what ESPN tried to give them in 2011, Maryland might not have left, your branding would be as solid as the SEC's, and the revenues would have been almost equal. It would have required that Tobacco Road give up 2 little brothers and add 4 major brands, which were lined up with 2 whales convinced to come, a third wrangling a little brother, and another hoops blueblood. Losing the 2 little brothers plus the additions would mean however a loss of voting control. So, it all fell through costing ESPN a priceless 2 conference rivalry, a lot of control, and costing the ACC a timely and widespread early opening of the ACCN. Of course, this is all merely alleged as failed deals in realignment never happened.

I vaguely remember ND and UTx chatter back then. By your description, I assume the rumor was those 2 plus OU, Okie St and KU? Thereby pretty well making the B12 unrecognizable.

(04-22-2023 12:42 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 09:03 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s doing down in the next few years” folks.

I know you were. Had the ACC accepted what ESPN tried to give them in 2011, Maryland might not have left, your branding would be as solid as the SEC's, and the revenues would have been almost equal. It would have required that Tobacco Road give up 2 little brothers and add 4 major brands, which were lined up with 2 whales convinced to come, a third wrangling a little brother, and another hoops blueblood. Losing the 2 little brothers plus the additions would mean however a loss of voting control. So, it all fell through costing ESPN a priceless 2 conference rivalry, a lot of control, and costing the ACC a timely and widespread early opening of the ACCN. Of course, this is all merely alleged as failed deals in realignment never happened.

I vaguely remember ND and UTx chatter back then. By your description, I assume the rumor was those 2 plus OU, Okie St OR KU? Thereby pretty well making the B12 unrecognizable.

Note the FIFY. ESPN wanted Kansas, Boren was shopping Oklahoma State.

(04-22-2023 12:42 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 09:03 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:33 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  One thing’s for sure, one of us will be eating a heaping of crow at some point!

Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s doing down in the next few years” folks.

I know you were. Had the ACC accepted what ESPN tried to give them in 2011, Maryland might not have left, your branding would be as solid as the SEC's, and the revenues would have been almost equal. It would have required that Tobacco Road give up 2 little brothers and add 4 major brands, which were lined up with 2 whales convinced to come, a third wrangling a little brother, and another hoops blueblood. Losing the 2 little brothers plus the additions would mean however a loss of voting control. So, it all fell through costing ESPN a priceless 2 conference rivalry, a lot of control, and costing the ACC a timely and widespread early opening of the ACCN. Of course, this is all merely alleged as failed deals in realignment never happened.

I vaguely remember ND and UTx chatter back then. By your description, I assume the rumor was those 2 plus OU, Okie St and KU? Thereby pretty well making the B12 unrecognizable.

It got to the point where the Virginia Tech student newspaper ran a picture in 2011 showing ND and Texas being added to the ACC...



see also: https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/...nd-16.html

(04-24-2023 09:18 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 12:42 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 11:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 09:03 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(04-21-2023 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Nah, UNC will either be kissing the Big 10's ring or the SEC's. Their choice! Nobody else should have to grovel. They made the ACC mess in 2011 with rarified selfishness. Things would be cozily secure right now if they had played ball for all of our sakes. Pride before the fall, supplication afterward.

I was referring to the ‘36ers vs the “it’s doing down in the next few years” folks.

I know you were. Had the ACC accepted what ESPN tried to give them in 2011, Maryland might not have left, your branding would be as solid as the SEC's, and the revenues would have been almost equal. It would have required that Tobacco Road give up 2 little brothers and add 4 major brands, which were lined up with 2 whales convinced to come, a third wrangling a little brother, and another hoops blueblood. Losing the 2 little brothers plus the additions would mean however a loss of voting control. So, it all fell through costing ESPN a priceless 2 conference rivalry, a lot of control, and costing the ACC a timely and widespread early opening of the ACCN. Of course, this is all merely alleged as failed deals in realignment never happened.

I vaguely remember ND and UTx chatter back then. By your description, I assume the rumor was those 2 plus OU, Okie St and KU? Thereby pretty well making the B12 unrecognizable.

It got to the point where the Virginia Tech student newspaper ran a picture in 2011 showing ND and Texas being added to the ACC...



see also: https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/...nd-16.html

There were lots of versions of that rumor running around.
IIRC it was Texas, Texas A&M, Kansas and Notre Dame.
A&M and the SEC were already making eyes at one another, Texas suggested Oklahoma as a substitute which was unacceptable to Duke, and it was Duke that put the kibosh on the deal.
A&M joined the SEC about a year later.

There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

(05-28-2023 07:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

No Ken. There was a whole process going on around it from 2010 until 2011 when it suddenly died on the ACC end of things. It would likely have died of complications from too many moving parts even if it hadn't been rejected way into the process. It Involved 4 schools coming in, 2 schools leaving, and two networks launching within a year of each other. The SEC had spent the better part of a year soft soaping the expectations of SEC fans. It was real, there was no mention of partial memberships at the time for anyone, but it died, and as all things in realignment if it fails, it never happened.

Dodds at Texas had referenced it to a booster luncheon when he told the donors that Texas was looking East and at the time he wasn't talking about the SEC. A&M and Missouri were the two pieces that came through for the SECN.

Then if you'll remember Clemson and FSU to the SEC appeared on the ESPN crawler and it stayed that way for about 3 days until N.D. pitched the partial deal and keeping the football first schools were part of their precondition for the partial membership. When ESPN pulled that they promised Slive full carriage for the SECN at the open and delivered it.

(04-19-2023 10:25 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  If only Notre Dame wanted to join a conference. They could be kingmakers plus get revenge over the bigotry of Fielding Yost.

More likely, Notre Dame sticks to its independent core. They ride the ACC train as long as possible. Assuming football is 75+% of revenues, the SEC continues its championship dominance and the ACC destabilizes…then ND will eventually negotiate a partial deal with the B1G. Michigan and Ohio State will adapt the guiding principles of the B1G.

In a world were the B1G is threatened due to lack of football depth, they can use their media financial payouts advantage to entice programs with proven championship caliber teams. They could expand with ND partial, plus Florida State, Clemson, Miami and Georgia Tech. Underneath the bravado of AAU membership, the fundamental interest is in promoting academic research. ND, Miami, Georgia Tech and Florida State all have strong academic research commitments. Clemson is the only modest outlier…strong undergrad educational reputation without a large research portfolio. IMHO, even amongst B1G-affiliated academics Clemson would be less controversial than Nebraska. The Southern wing of the ACC makes more media revenue than their SEC rivals, while also maintaining a viable path to elite recruits and football championships.

Unfortunately for the SEC, there is not sufficient upside associated with Clemson or Georgia Tech or Florida State or Miami. A second program in the state of Florida may make sense, but these additions are generally dilutive and defensive. The SEC would actually benefit more from having a stable ACC.

Why would ND want a partial in the B1G? Why would either of the P2 be willing to offer that? Much more likely, they move everything except football to the big east v 2.0, those schools are more similar to ND than any in the P2 other than in football, which would be independent anyway.

As for the OP, it's really good stuff, though I do think that the comment about "peak oil" was a stretch. Oil is currently very expensive due to geopolitical instability. That may or may not continue, and if it does continue, it may just sporadically flare up for decades. Also, the longer oil prices remain high, the faster alternative sources will become available. I think, rather than worrying about "peak oil", we should expect that the average price of travel will trend downward over time (in real terms).

That won't save USCLA and the rest of the B1G if ND joins the SEC though, and I can imagine how happy it would make them to stick it to the B1G if/when they ever do join a Conference.

(05-28-2023 09:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2023 10:25 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  If only Notre Dame wanted to join a conference. They could be kingmakers plus get revenge over the bigotry of Fielding Yost.

More likely, Notre Dame sticks to its independent core. They ride the ACC train as long as possible. Assuming football is 75+% of revenues, the SEC continues its championship dominance and the ACC destabilizes…then ND will eventually negotiate a partial deal with the B1G. Michigan and Ohio State will adapt the guiding principles of the B1G.

In a world were the B1G is threatened due to lack of football depth, they can use their media financial payouts advantage to entice programs with proven championship caliber teams. They could expand with ND partial, plus Florida State, Clemson, Miami and Georgia Tech. Underneath the bravado of AAU membership, the fundamental interest is in promoting academic research. ND, Miami, Georgia Tech and Florida State all have strong academic research commitments. Clemson is the only modest outlier…strong undergrad educational reputation without a large research portfolio. IMHO, even amongst B1G-affiliated academics Clemson would be less controversial than Nebraska. The Southern wing of the ACC makes more media revenue than their SEC rivals, while also maintaining a viable path to elite recruits and football championships.

Unfortunately for the SEC, there is not sufficient upside associated with Clemson or Georgia Tech or Florida State or Miami. A second program in the state of Florida may make sense, but these additions are generally dilutive and defensive. The SEC would actually benefit more from having a stable ACC.

Why would ND want a partial in the B1G? Why would either of the P2 be willing to offer that? Much more likely, they move everything except football to the big east v 2.0, those schools are more similar to ND than any in the P2 other than in football, which would be independent anyway.

As for the OP, it's really good stuff, though I do think that the comment about "peak oil" was a stretch. Oil is currently very expensive due to geopolitical instability. That may or may not continue, and if it does continue, it may just sporadically flare up for decades. Also, the longer oil prices remain high, the faster alternative sources will become available. I think, rather than worrying about "peak oil", we should expect that the average price of travel will trend downward over time (in real terms).

That won't save USCLA and the rest of the B1G if ND joins the SEC though, and I can imagine how happy it would make them to stick it to the B1G if/when they ever do join a Conference.

I know of one Notre Dame fan who said he would love to see the Irish join the SEC, if for no other reason than he could put a map of the SEC market footprint up on his wall and South Bend added to that map would make the state of Indiana look like the SEC's middle finger pointing straight at Michigan.

(05-28-2023 09:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 09:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2023 10:25 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  If only Notre Dame wanted to join a conference. They could be kingmakers plus get revenge over the bigotry of Fielding Yost.

More likely, Notre Dame sticks to its independent core. They ride the ACC train as long as possible. Assuming football is 75+% of revenues, the SEC continues its championship dominance and the ACC destabilizes…then ND will eventually negotiate a partial deal with the B1G. Michigan and Ohio State will adapt the guiding principles of the B1G.

In a world were the B1G is threatened due to lack of football depth, they can use their media financial payouts advantage to entice programs with proven championship caliber teams. They could expand with ND partial, plus Florida State, Clemson, Miami and Georgia Tech. Underneath the bravado of AAU membership, the fundamental interest is in promoting academic research. ND, Miami, Georgia Tech and Florida State all have strong academic research commitments. Clemson is the only modest outlier…strong undergrad educational reputation without a large research portfolio. IMHO, even amongst B1G-affiliated academics Clemson would be less controversial than Nebraska. The Southern wing of the ACC makes more media revenue than their SEC rivals, while also maintaining a viable path to elite recruits and football championships.

Unfortunately for the SEC, there is not sufficient upside associated with Clemson or Georgia Tech or Florida State or Miami. A second program in the state of Florida may make sense, but these additions are generally dilutive and defensive. The SEC would actually benefit more from having a stable ACC.

Why would ND want a partial in the B1G? Why would either of the P2 be willing to offer that? Much more likely, they move everything except football to the big east v 2.0, those schools are more similar to ND than any in the P2 other than in football, which would be independent anyway.

As for the OP, it's really good stuff, though I do think that the comment about "peak oil" was a stretch. Oil is currently very expensive due to geopolitical instability. That may or may not continue, and if it does continue, it may just sporadically flare up for decades. Also, the longer oil prices remain high, the faster alternative sources will become available. I think, rather than worrying about "peak oil", we should expect that the average price of travel will trend downward over time (in real terms).

That won't save USCLA and the rest of the B1G if ND joins the SEC though, and I can imagine how happy it would make them to stick it to the B1G if/when they ever do join a Conference.

I know of one Notre Dame fan who said he would love to see the Irish join the SEC, if for no other reason than he could put a map of the SEC market footprint up on his wall and South Bend added to that map would make the state of Indiana look like the SEC's middle finger pointing straight at Michigan.

Now, that's funny.

(04-20-2023 05:34 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  You know, I wrote up a bunch of stuff but deleted it because I don't want to be antagonistic. I do have one fundamental point to make about speculating on a super conference: Why would ESPN, which essentially controls the majority of CFB today, including 100% of the SEC rights, 100% of the ACC rights, and half the Big XII, want to push for the creation of a super league that would promptly need to be NFL-ized in terms of media rights because ESPN only has 1 OTA channel and cable is dying (so ESPN/ESPN2/etc aren't good here) meaning they'd likely end up with 25%-ish at best of media rights of the new 36 team SEC?

This seems like ESPN will make a truckload more money continuing to control what they control today, instead of creating a monster of a league that would have so much leverage and incentive to promptly charge ESPN/ABC a ton more and also reduce their overall control. ESPN as a broker isn't needed, the B1G just brokered an NFL like deal that explicitly excludes ESPN/ABC, the NFL's own deal shows that ABC/ESPN isn't willing to step up for the far better packages that CBS/NBC/FOX already have and what's the value for ESPN in being a broker vs what they make today?

This point of view makes too much sense, and doesn't fit the narrative of some on this board that push the idea of a P2 + 1.

(05-28-2023 07:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

No Ken. There was a whole process going on around it from 2010 until 2011 when it suddenly died on the ACC end of things. It would likely have died of complications from too many moving parts even if it hadn't been rejected way into the process. It Involved 4 schools coming in, 2 schools leaving, and two networks launching within a year of each other. The SEC had spent the better part of a year soft soaping the expectations of SEC fans. It was real, there was no mention of partial memberships at the time for anyone, but it died, and as all things in realignment if it fails, it never happened.

Dodds at Texas had referenced it to a booster luncheon when he told the donors that Texas was looking East and at the time he wasn't talking about the SEC. A&M and Missouri were the two pieces that came through for the SECN.

Then if you'll remember Clemson and FSU to the SEC appeared on the ESPN crawler and it stayed that way for about 3 days until N.D. pitched the partial deal and keeping the football first schools were part of their precondition for the partial membership. When ESPN pulled that they promised Slive full carriage for the SECN at the open and delivered it.

I guess what I am saying is that this wasn't so much a bonafide offer that the ACC foolishly rejected as it was a trial balloon floated by ESPN. In the end, the two whales got what they wanted (for ND a great home for their Olympic sports and for UT a lucrative side hustle (the LHN) they didn't have to share with anybody.

(05-29-2023 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

No Ken. There was a whole process going on around it from 2010 until 2011 when it suddenly died on the ACC end of things. It would likely have died of complications from too many moving parts even if it hadn't been rejected way into the process. It Involved 4 schools coming in, 2 schools leaving, and two networks launching within a year of each other. The SEC had spent the better part of a year soft soaping the expectations of SEC fans. It was real, there was no mention of partial memberships at the time for anyone, but it died, and as all things in realignment if it fails, it never happened.

Dodds at Texas had referenced it to a booster luncheon when he told the donors that Texas was looking East and at the time he wasn't talking about the SEC. A&M and Missouri were the two pieces that came through for the SECN.

Then if you'll remember Clemson and FSU to the SEC appeared on the ESPN crawler and it stayed that way for about 3 days until N.D. pitched the partial deal and keeping the football first schools were part of their precondition for the partial membership. When ESPN pulled that they promised Slive full carriage for the SECN at the open and delivered it.

I guess what I am saying is that this wasn't so much a bonafide offer that the ACC foolishly rejected as it was a trial balloon floated by ESPN. In the end, the two whales got what they wanted (for ND a great home for their Olympic sports and for UT a lucrative side hustle (the LHN) they didn't have to share with anybody.

Nah it was a real thing. ESPN's concept was two major conferences of relatively equal branding to pit against one another as rivals. That would fuel the ACCN and SECN and help ESPN corner the most competitive product in the most productive markets. When that was rejected the emphasis was to still find a way to shelter Texas and Oklahoma in an ESPN held property, which is why I think ESPN was willing to buy all of the SEC's rights, beat out CBS, and land that pair under their full rights umbrella. It is also why I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas and Notre Dame found a way into the SEC whether completely in Kansas's case or partially if not completely in Notre Dame's case. ESPN still wants what it wants. And it has other wants as well, but those are the next two top value prizes, worth more than any ACC full member including FSU.

(05-29-2023 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2023 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

No Ken. There was a whole process going on around it from 2010 until 2011 when it suddenly died on the ACC end of things. It would likely have died of complications from too many moving parts even if it hadn't been rejected way into the process. It Involved 4 schools coming in, 2 schools leaving, and two networks launching within a year of each other. The SEC had spent the better part of a year soft soaping the expectations of SEC fans. It was real, there was no mention of partial memberships at the time for anyone, but it died, and as all things in realignment if it fails, it never happened.

Dodds at Texas had referenced it to a booster luncheon when he told the donors that Texas was looking East and at the time he wasn't talking about the SEC. A&M and Missouri were the two pieces that came through for the SECN.

Then if you'll remember Clemson and FSU to the SEC appeared on the ESPN crawler and it stayed that way for about 3 days until N.D. pitched the partial deal and keeping the football first schools were part of their precondition for the partial membership. When ESPN pulled that they promised Slive full carriage for the SECN at the open and delivered it.

I guess what I am saying is that this wasn't so much a bonafide offer that the ACC foolishly rejected as it was a trial balloon floated by ESPN. In the end, the two whales got what they wanted (for ND a great home for their Olympic sports and for UT a lucrative side hustle (the LHN) they didn't have to share with anybody.

Nah it was a real thing. ESPN's concept was two major conferences of relatively equal branding to pit against one another as rivals. That would fuel the ACCN and SECN and help ESPN corner the most competitive product in the most productive markets. When that was rejected the emphasis was to still find a way to shelter Texas and Oklahoma in an ESPN held property, which is why I think ESPN was willing to buy all of the SEC's rights, beat out CBS, and land that pair under their full rights umbrella. It is also why I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas and Notre Dame found a way into the SEC whether completely in Kansas's case or partially if not completely in Notre Dame's case. ESPN still wants what it wants. And it has other wants as well, but those are the next two top value prizes, worth more than any ACC full member including FSU.

I'm not sure it was ever real to ND and UT. I suspect both of them used ESPN and the SEC . Notre Dame has always wanted to keep its football program independent, and I can't see Texas really wanting to leave all its natural (regional) rivals for a conference in which they didn't have a single rival and for which they wouldn't be the Queen Bee.

(05-29-2023 03:09 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-29-2023 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-29-2023 10:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-28-2023 07:32 PM)ken d Wrote:  There were lots of rumors, but Notre Dame and Texas to the ACC wasn't exactly a credible one. For ESPN to "offer" to put those two in the ACC suggests that they actually had the ability to do that. Then, as now, Notre Dame has consistently held to the position that they were committed to independence. And it would not have been the first time that Texas flashed some leg to seduce someone into thinking they had an offer just to wring some concession out of them. I don't believe either of those moves were ever going to happen. And I suspect ACC members didn't believe it either.

No Ken. There was a whole process going on around it from 2010 until 2011 when it suddenly died on the ACC end of things. It would likely have died of complications from too many moving parts even if it hadn't been rejected way into the process. It Involved 4 schools coming in, 2 schools leaving, and two networks launching within a year of each other. The SEC had spent the better part of a year soft soaping the expectations of SEC fans. It was real, there was no mention of partial memberships at the time for anyone, but it died, and as all things in realignment if it fails, it never happened.

Dodds at Texas had referenced it to a booster luncheon when he told the donors that Texas was looking East and at the time he wasn't talking about the SEC. A&M and Missouri were the two pieces that came through for the SECN.

Then if you'll remember Clemson and FSU to the SEC appeared on the ESPN crawler and it stayed that way for about 3 days until N.D. pitched the partial deal and keeping the football first schools were part of their precondition for the partial membership. When ESPN pulled that they promised Slive full carriage for the SECN at the open and delivered it.

I guess what I am saying is that this wasn't so much a bonafide offer that the ACC foolishly rejected as it was a trial balloon floated by ESPN. In the end, the two whales got what they wanted (for ND a great home for their Olympic sports and for UT a lucrative side hustle (the LHN) they didn't have to share with anybody.

Nah it was a real thing. ESPN's concept was two major conferences of relatively equal branding to pit against one another as rivals. That would fuel the ACCN and SECN and help ESPN corner the most competitive product in the most productive markets. When that was rejected the emphasis was to still find a way to shelter Texas and Oklahoma in an ESPN held property, which is why I think ESPN was willing to buy all of the SEC's rights, beat out CBS, and land that pair under their full rights umbrella. It is also why I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas and Notre Dame found a way into the SEC whether completely in Kansas's case or partially if not completely in Notre Dame's case. ESPN still wants what it wants. And it has other wants as well, but those are the next two top value prizes, worth more than any ACC full member including FSU.

I'm not sure it was ever real to ND and UT. I suspect both of them used ESPN and the SEC . Notre Dame has always wanted to keep its football program independent, and I can't see Texas really wanting to leave all its natural (regional) rivals for a conference in which they didn't have a single rival and for which they wouldn't be the Queen Bee.

They would have had Oklahoma and they knew ESPN was going to set up the A&M game with A&M in the SEC, and Kansas was there as well. You are using reason to make your statements. I'm using what I heard. And given the other things going on at the time to support the moves, I believe what I was told. It all fits. Texas and Oklahoma are now in house for ESPN. Notre Dame is there partially. We'll wait and see what happens with Kansas. Since 2011 I'd say the options for the ACC have dissipated. And instead of obtaining the balance that was sought in 2011 we now have the greatest imbalance possible imbalance forming.

(05-28-2023 09:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2023 10:25 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  If only Notre Dame wanted to join a conference. They could be kingmakers plus get revenge over the bigotry of Fielding Yost.

More likely, Notre Dame sticks to its independent core. They ride the ACC train as long as possible. Assuming football is 75+% of revenues, the SEC continues its championship dominance and the ACC destabilizes…then ND will eventually negotiate a partial deal with the B1G. Michigan and Ohio State will adapt the guiding principles of the B1G.

In a world were the B1G is threatened due to lack of football depth, they can use their media financial payouts advantage to entice programs with proven championship caliber teams. They could expand with ND partial, plus Florida State, Clemson, Miami and Georgia Tech. Underneath the bravado of AAU membership, the fundamental interest is in promoting academic research. ND, Miami, Georgia Tech and Florida State all have strong academic research commitments. Clemson is the only modest outlier…strong undergrad educational reputation without a large research portfolio. IMHO, even amongst B1G-affiliated academics Clemson would be less controversial than Nebraska. The Southern wing of the ACC makes more media revenue than their SEC rivals, while also maintaining a viable path to elite recruits and football championships.

Unfortunately for the SEC, there is not sufficient upside associated with Clemson or Georgia Tech or Florida State or Miami. A second program in the state of Florida may make sense, but these additions are generally dilutive and defensive. The SEC would actually benefit more from having a stable ACC.

Why would ND want a partial in the B1G? Why would either of the P2 be willing to offer that? Much more likely, they move everything except football to the big east v 2.0, those schools are more similar to ND than any in the P2 other than in football, which would be independent anyway.

As for the OP, it's really good stuff, though I do think that the comment about "peak oil" was a stretch. Oil is currently very expensive due to geopolitical instability. That may or may not continue, and if it does continue, it may just sporadically flare up for decades. Also, the longer oil prices remain high, the faster alternative sources will become available. I think, rather than worrying about "peak oil", we should expect that the average price of travel will trend downward over time (in real terms).

That won't save USCLA and the rest of the B1G if ND joins the SEC though, and I can imagine how happy it would make them to stick it to the B1G if/when they ever do join a Conference.

My understanding of Notre Dame athletics’ and conference priorities are different.

The Big East programs aren’t nationally competitive in non-revenue sports. Notre Dame’s athletic department needs stronger conference foes. Big East programs only have resources to compete in basketball. This is the reason that Notre Dame left the Big East a decade ago.

Football independence is a foundational principle for Notre Dame. They want the flexibility to be barnstorming against the toughest football competition, regardless of conference or location. So long as partial (non-football) membership in a power conference is available, Notre Dame won’t fully commit to any conference.

Assuming the current ACC can’t compete in a P2 world, the B1G will be ND’s best alternative. The Irish are in the middle of the B1G footprint, the B1G is now a national conference, they play the same sports and have rivals in the B1G. Heck, Notre Dame hockey is already playing in the B1G.

IMO all conferences, including the B1G and SEC, will offer Notre Dame partial membership…so long as it makes the conference money. It’s Notre Dame that is leaving media revenue on the table through partial membership. If a power conference can make money, while keeping that asset away from another conference, then Notre Dame as a partial member makes sense.

The more I think about it, the more likely it is to me that when ACC GOR is done, the Big boys of the Big Ten, SEC, ACC and Notre Dame will leave their respective conferences to form a P1 football conference of 16-24 schools.

Alternatively there will be a P1 basketball conference that also plays football that will include basketball blue bloods like Kansas, Indiana, Duke, UConn, Cuse, Louisville, etc.