(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

Neither the SEC nor the B1G actually need Duke, Carolina or Virginia to be successful.
In another thread it was shown that both the SEC and B1G project similar revenues without those three, and both well above the other P5 conferences.
So the question becomes: is the "stiff competition" stemming from Conference offices, or from networks?

(03-17-2022 07:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

Neither the SEC nor the B1G actually need Duke, Carolina or Virginia to be successful.
In another thread it was shown that both the SEC and B1G project similar revenues without those three, and both well above the other P5 conferences.
So the question becomes: is the "stiff competition" stemming from Conference offices, or from networks?

It stems from 3, maybe 4 sources:

1. 40-50 million dollar deficits between the top 2 conferences and everyone else will create a need among the top tier brands to seek to be in that upper echelon financially. The mere perception of this likelihood creates the fear of loss of equity among the top 2.

2. Fear of being outdistanced then drives each conferences desire for more large markets and top brands. On the East Coast that means Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Georgia.

3. The Big 10 is motivated by their lack of applicable targets. The SEC is motivated out of turf protection. SEC value is concomitant with regional branding and market dominance. Taking North Carolina and Virginia blocks B1G expansion Southward.

4. ESPN grasps and is involved with #2 & #3.

So, neither "needs" North Carolina or Virginia, but both perceive less security if they don't take them.

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

I think we were always headed to a 3 x 20 ultimately. Then the B12 backfills with Memphis, East Carolina, Colorado State, & SMU, and they remain a bigger and better version of the AAC and likely get included while things transition.

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Interesting take JR. I hope you don't mind if I tweak it just a tad and even then I don't know whether ND will want to give up their east coast games.


PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

(03-17-2022 11:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

I think we were always headed to a 3 x 20 ultimately. Then the B12 backfills with Memphis, East Carolina, Colorado State, & SMU, and they remain a bigger and better version of the AAC and likely get included while things transition.

3 X 20 means that 9 current P5 schools will get demoted.
We may indeed get down to 60 schools in three conferences, but I don't think it can or will happen before the end of the ACC's contract in 2036.

I believe that the integration of Oklahoma and Texas into the SEC will take a while, with an extended adjustment period. Then the conference will have to operate with stability for a few years before any further expansion would take place if at all.

(03-17-2022 02:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Interesting take JR. I hope you don't mind if I tweak it just a tad and even then I don't know whether ND will want to give up their east coast games.


PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

That's where their games vs Navy would come in.

(03-17-2022 11:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think we were always headed to a 3 x 20 ultimately.

JRsec as a knowledgeable and well-connected Super Moderator, what's your forecast here in March 2022 for which 20 end up in your SEC and which 20 end up in Kevin Warren's B1G?

I'm sticking with this:

SEC (20) ............... B1G (20)
Alabama ............... Duke
Arkansas .............. Illinois
Auburn ................. Indiana
Clemson ............... Iowa
Florida ................. Kansas
Florida State ......... Maryland
Georgia ................Michigan
Georgia Tech ........ Michigan State
Kentucky ............. Minnesota
LSU .................... Missouri
Mississippi State ... Nebraska
NC State ............. North Carolina
Oklahoma ........... Northwestern
Ole Miss ............. Notre Dame
South Carolina .... Ohio State
Tennessee .......... Penn State
Texas ................. Purdue
Texas A&M .......... Rutgers
Vanderbilt ........... Virginia
Virginia Tech ...... Wisconsin

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

Divisions would be extremely awkward. At minimum, ND will want annuals with Stanford and USC. Separating the Northwest and Arizonas from California are also non-starters. The only mitigating I could come up with that might make sense are splitting the CA privates from the CA publics, then putting each CA public in separate divisions. Going divisionless pose different problems, as it's not possible to satisfy all factions, including newbies, with locked games. Putting the CA programs with the TX programs is also a complete non-starter.

With those said, here's how I put together the divisions:

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA

Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, California

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston

Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, USC, Stanford

Putting the Northwest programs together with UCLA is a mitigation for not having annuals with USC, while Arizona has a recruiting base that somewhat mitigates the NorCal recruiting deficit. I'm sure you might prefer the newbies be grafted on the current Pac-12 but the politics won't make it happen that way, especially with the Domers.

(03-20-2022 09:26 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

Divisions would be extremely awkward. At minimum, ND will want annuals with Stanford and USC. Separating the Northwest and Arizonas from California are also non-starters. The only mitigating I could come up with that might make sense are splitting the CA privates from the CA publics, then putting each CA public in separate divisions. Going divisionless pose different problems, as it's not possible to satisfy all factions, including newbies, with locked games. Putting the CA programs with the TX programs is also a complete non-starter.

With those said, here's how I put together the divisions:

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA

Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, California

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston

Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, USC, Stanford

Putting the Northwest programs together with UCLA is a mitigation for not having annuals with USC, while Arizona has a recruiting base that somewhat mitigates the NorCal recruiting deficit. I'm sure you might prefer the newbies be grafted on the current Pac-12 but the politics won't make it happen that way, especially with the Domers.

The time for the PAC 12 to make an earth-shattering move has passed.

It was Oklahoma and Texas OR bust. They busted. A genuine competitive partnership with the Big Ten isn't going to work logistically. The new version of the Big 12 doesn't have enough economic power to make it a worthwhile venture.

Adding a pod from the East might make a splash, but I don't think Notre Dame would be interested in full membership and there's no one else available that would alter the calculus to make it worthwhile. That's before you start creating some odd logistics just to consider the possibility.

The PAC 12 is on its own now. They have to create value by being more competitive or they will live life as permanent 2nd class citizens barring a significant demographic shift into Western states not named CA. In other words, nothing is going to change anytime soon.

(03-20-2022 09:26 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

Divisions would be extremely awkward. At minimum, ND will want annuals with Stanford and USC. Separating the Northwest and Arizonas from California are also non-starters. The only mitigating I could come up with that might make sense are splitting the CA privates from the CA publics, then putting each CA public in separate divisions. Going divisionless pose different problems, as it's not possible to satisfy all factions, including newbies, with locked games. Putting the CA programs with the TX programs is also a complete non-starter.

With those said, here's how I put together the divisions:

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA

Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, California

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston

Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, USC, Stanford

Putting the Northwest programs together with UCLA is a mitigation for not having annuals with USC, while Arizona has a recruiting base that somewhat mitigates the NorCal recruiting deficit. I'm sure you might prefer the newbies be grafted on the current Pac-12 but the politics won't make it happen that way, especially with the Domers.

No need of divisions at all. Play 10 conference games and let ND pick 5 rivals in and out of conference. Heck if the PAC and B1G were smart they both would expand to 16 or 18, merge and set up division less scheduling as a whole. They benefit from markets and brands w/o unnecessary travel.

There's still way too much inside the box thinking about divisions. Appealing games are what count. Take your best 8 schools upon conclusion and playoff internally and pit your champ against the SEC/ACC/B12 champ and everyone does well. Networks, schools, fans, and the game itself would benefit from where we are now.

B1G/PAC adds Iowa State, Kansas, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Syracuse. You can officially tag the 16 B1G schools academically and call the rest PAC schools if you need to label them at all.

The SEC could add the 11 ACC schools (UVa, Va Tech, UNC, NC State, Duke, WF, Clemson, Ga Tech, FSU, Miami, & Louisville), plus T.C.U., Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, West Virginia.

You reduce 5 sets of overhead into 2 and have many more scheduling variants. The networks now have 64 schools.

So no 4 x 16, a 2 x 32. Top 8 in each league play down to one and the 2 champs meet.

Want more? Cincinnati, Brigham Young, Kansas State, Wyoming, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, and either New Mexico or Hawaii out West for 40.

Central Florida, South Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Houston, East Carolina, UAB, and Southern Miss.

Now you have 80 more win/loss balance and can still take your best 8.

(03-20-2022 09:26 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 11:31 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

I think your logic is sound JR. If ESPN is inclined to do something like this, and I think they might be after the B1G negotiations are complete, I think the PAC would go to 20 to match the SEC.

Add Cincinnati, Academic match and would solidify their eastern division.

Add Houston, Academic match and if rumors are to be believed was already on the short list just a few months ago, Get's the PAC into Texas which I think Kliavkoff really values.

Add Okie St. and Texas Tech, definitely on the weaker side academically but Okie St. adds a solid all around athletic program and a contiguous state, Texas Tech solidifies the conferences presence in the state of Texas.

Divisions would be extremely awkward. At minimum, ND will want annuals with Stanford and USC. Separating the Northwest and Arizonas from California are also non-starters. The only mitigating I could come up with that might make sense are splitting the CA privates from the CA publics, then putting each CA public in separate divisions. Going divisionless pose different problems, as it's not possible to satisfy all factions, including newbies, with locked games. Putting the CA programs with the TX programs is also a complete non-starter.

With those said, here's how I put together the divisions:

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA

Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, California

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston

Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, USC, Stanford

Putting the Northwest programs together with UCLA is a mitigation for not having annuals with USC, while Arizona has a recruiting base that somewhat mitigates the NorCal recruiting deficit. I'm sure you might prefer the newbies be grafted on the current Pac-12 but the politics won't make it happen that way, especially with the Domers.

What you highlight is the very real problem of going beyond 16 teams. JR's original proposal of a PAC16 makes more sense than me pushing the idea of a PAC20. I think this issue is true for any conference that goes beyond 16.

IMO the only way around this for 20, is to go to a division less 10 game schedule with a big group of protected rivals. With this group of 20 schools in order to protect everyone's rivals (mostly for PAC schools) and get everyone one California school, It would be 6 protected rivals. Unfortunately something like this means it would take 8 years to play a home and home with all of the other schools in the conference.

I lined out what these protected rivals would look like and it's not pretty, LOL... I'll give you two for fun.

Notre Dame - USC, Stanford, UW, Houston, Cincinnati, Iowa State
USC - Notre Dame, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon State, Arizona, Texas Tech

(03-18-2022 08:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 02:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Interesting take JR. I hope you don't mind if I tweak it just a tad and even then I don't know whether ND will want to give up their east coast games.


PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

That's where their games vs Navy would come in.

One game every two years is hardly what you would consider "east coast exposure".

(03-18-2022 08:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 02:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Interesting take JR. I hope you don't mind if I tweak it just a tad and even then I don't know whether ND will want to give up their east coast games.


PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

That's where their games vs Navy would come in.

(03-20-2022 07:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-18-2022 08:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 02:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 11:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2022 10:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.

1. PAC presidents don't want the B12 leftovers.
2. ESPN wants no back doors into large markets so combining some ACC schools with the NB12 to create a tweener does that and eliminates damages.
3. If ESPN does seek to help the PAC and gain control, how about a little unexpected solution? N.D., Kansas, Iowa State, & Louisville to form the Eastern pod? One blueblood football program of high value with established PAC rivalries. 2 blueblood hoops programs, 2 AAU schools, and Eastern and Central time zones, but in relative close proximity to each other would accomplish a lot.
4. PAC gets major content value, 2 top 15 earners, time zone exposure, and 3 academic fits and one all around sports addition which is the #15 earner which makes them #1 in the PAC in earnings. ESPN closes out the SEC. Closes out full rights in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Kentucky. And they totally kneecap Warren and the Big 10 by assisting ND and Louisville and helping Kansas and Iowa State. If the PAC wants to go to 20 then Colorado slips into the Eastern Pod.

PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Louisville, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Interesting take JR. I hope you don't mind if I tweak it just a tad and even then I don't know whether ND will want to give up their east coast games.


PAC 16:
Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Colorado, Stanford, Utah
Arizona, Arizona State, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Notre Dame

SEC:
Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

NB12:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, T.C.U.
Brigham Young, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

That's where their games vs Navy would come in.

One game every two years is hardly what you would consider "east coast exposure".

Especially if Navy decides to have its "home" game versus ND in San Diego or Dublin (I guess that is Ireland's East Coast).

Eventually we will see core north (B1G) vs core south (SEC) with wing conference west (PAC) that will align with the B1G and wing conference east (ACC) that will align with the SEC.

Most of the players are now set with a few that need to be shuffled around for better balance.

(03-22-2022 05:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  Eventually we will see core north (B1G) vs core south (SEC) with wing conference west (PAC) that will align with the B1G and wing conference east (ACC) that will align with the SEC.

Most of the players are now set with a few that need to be shuffled around for better balance.

Revenue differential says otherwise. At nearly a half billion over the next decade (2025-2035) there is no way Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech and Louisville can afford to permit that gap to exist in favor of in state rivals.

And basketball will be impacted as schools with more money hire away the best coaches so Kansas, Duke, North Carolina and Virginia can't afford it either.

Even Notre Dame feels that gap. But at least if they choose to stay independent, they have enough brand value to schedule.

A P2? Yes, Two less paid conferences on the wings? Nope.

(03-22-2022 11:50 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2022 05:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  Eventually we will see core north (B1G) vs core south (SEC) with wing conference west (PAC) that will align with the B1G and wing conference east (ACC) that will align with the SEC.

Most of the players are now set with a few that need to be shuffled around for better balance.

Revenue differential says otherwise. At nearly a half billion over the next decade (2025-2035) there is no way Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech and Louisville can afford to permit that gap to exist in favor of in state rivals.

And basketball will be impacted as schools with more money hire away the best coaches so Kansas, Duke, North Carolina and Virginia can't afford it either.

Even Notre Dame feels that gap. But at least if they choose to stay independent, they have enough brand value to schedule.

A P2? Yes, Two less paid conferences on the wings? Nope.

In that case JR we need to change the narrative.

As you alluded up-thread, there are several schools that will be left behind, and we will end up with 58-60 at the P level.

Both core conferences will top out at 16 wile the wing leagues will probably end up with 14 and 12 respectively.
The left behinds will make up the New Big 12.
This configuration will be around for a while so I'm thinking that Notre Dame will have to or get off the pot....they will choose the former.

Core SEC
Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Arkansas
Missouri, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Kentucky
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, Tennessee
Alabama, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, LSU

Wing SEC (ACC)
Miami, South Florida, Florida State, South Carolina, Wake Forest, NC State, Boston College
Georgia Tech, Clemson, Carolina, Duke, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse

Core B1G
Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Pitt
Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana
Purdue, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Illinois
Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Wing B1G (PAC)
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, California, Stanford
UCLA, Southern Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado

No changes in the PAC
The B1G adds Pitt and Notre Dame to give more geographic balance
Louisville and South Carolina switch to also give move geographic balance
Miami, Florida State and South Florida negate Florida's dominance in the state of Florida to create more value for the ACC.

I recently updated my spreadsheet showing the US population by state, curious to see what states were growing and by how much. I was surprised at something the data showed. The states with Big Ten teams had significantly lower total population than the other two P5 conferences with 14 teams. The ACC had the highest, at 109 MM. SEC was next at 102 MM and the B1G lagged with 86 MM.

Thinking about that in the context of strategic expansion targets led me to the question of whether the B1G might respond to the SEC's addition of UT and OU by making a push for four ACC schools: North Carolina, Virginia, Duke and Georgia Tech would be academically compatible and would, if they all came together, actually be geographically contiguous. Those schools would raise the population in the B1G footprint by 35%, taking them to 117 MM.

I realize that those schools don't exactly pack the stands on Saturdays for football, and aren't as ardent about football as a half dozen other ACC teams, but I no longer think a move like that is implausible.

(03-18-2022 09:07 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-17-2022 11:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think we were always headed to a 3 x 20 ultimately.

JRsec as a knowledgeable and well-connected Super Moderator, what's your forecast here in March 2022 for which 20 end up in your SEC and which 20 end up in Kevin Warren's B1G?

I'm sticking with this:

SEC (20) ............... B1G (20)
Alabama ............... Duke
Arkansas .............. Illinois
Auburn ................. Indiana
Clemson ............... Iowa
Florida ................. Kansas
Florida State ......... Maryland
Georgia ................Michigan
Georgia Tech ........ Michigan State
Kentucky ............. Minnesota
LSU .................... Missouri
Mississippi State ... Nebraska
NC State ............. North Carolina
Oklahoma ........... Northwestern
Ole Miss ............. Notre Dame
South Carolina .... Ohio State
Tennessee .......... Penn State
Texas ................. Purdue
Texas A&M .......... Rutgers
Vanderbilt ........... Virginia
Virginia Tech ...... Wisconsin

That lineup looks logical to me, but with 3 former Big 8 teams in the western pod (KU, Mizzou, Nebraska), two schools from the original Ten in that pod are going to feel separated from their roots; it looks like that would be Iowa and Minnesota. Don't think they'd be happy about that. In the east, Rutgers could go with Virginia, Carolina, Maryland and Duke. Would the Terps care for that?