In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is all are elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

You don't get ranked in the top 5 public schools year after year for nothing.
(California, UCLA, Michigan, Virginia and North Carolina)

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

My preference?

Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Kansas

We've already penetrated the Midwest with Missouri and Oklahoma. Kansas will help sure it up. The basketball program is always elite and will provide some very nice draws.

FSU, Miami, and Clemson all garner big football ratings and they mesh well. They also complete existing rivalries which pumps up the numbers a little when you're talking about drawing power.

I don't know whether or not we need market penetration in NC and VA, but I think the first 4 I mentioned is the best bang for the buck. UNC is a quality brand and a flagship, but it may require taking Duke. That's not a bad deal, just not the most expedient from where I'm approaching it.

(03-03-2022 07:00 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

My preference?

Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Kansas

We've already penetrated the Midwest with Missouri and Oklahoma. Kansas will help sure it up. The basketball program is always elite and will provide some very nice draws.

FSU, Miami, and Clemson all garner big football ratings and they mesh well. They also complete existing rivalries which pumps up the numbers a little when you're talking about drawing power.

I don't know whether or not we need market penetration in NC and VA, but I think the first 4 I mentioned is the best bang for the buck. UNC is a quality brand and a flagship, but it may require taking Duke. That's not a bad deal, just not the most expedient from where I'm approaching it.

I would take Duke for Olympic sports only. Knowing Frank the Tank like I do, he would want Duke in the B1G for everything.

Wondering if Bill Dazzle and Frank are the same person

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

Even though K-State, Virginia Tech, and TCU have fallen on some hard times, they're still football brands, IMO. And although they don't look like it, Oklahoma State is a basketball brand. Like the football brands that have fallen on hard times, Oklahoma State is a basketball brand that has fallen on hard times as well.

Agreed on everything else.

(03-04-2022 01:52 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

Even though K-State, Virginia Tech, and TCU have fallen on some hard times, they're still football brands, IMO. And although they don't look like it, Oklahoma State is a basketball brand. Like the football brands that have fallen on hard times, Oklahoma State is a basketball brand that has fallen on hard times as well.

Agreed on everything else.

If Stanford is the base-minimum acceptable football brand, then Virginia Tech definitely belongs and TCU has a good argument. K-State is too much of a reach to be considered a football peer to the other schools.

For basketball, IMO the only brands missing are Louisville and Connecticut.

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

Today there are 69 P5 schools including Notre Dame
I would imagine that the top two earners (SEC & B1G) will cap out between 18 & 20 teams, as to not dilute the football value of either conference.

I think the SEC will gather their additions from the ACC while the B1G will take from the PAC

I see the SEC as an 18 team conference adding Miami, Florida State and Clemson while convincing Vanderbilt to shift over to the ACC leftovers but receiving some supplemental income due to separation.

Miami, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina Clemson
Kentucky, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

The B1G follows with 20

Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Purdue, Notre Dame
Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Illinois
Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, Southern Cal

This leaves 31 teams to be divided into two conferences of lesser value for football. One in the east and one in the west/ mid-west

EAST
UCF, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Cincinnati
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest

WEST
Washington State, Oregon State, California, Utah
Arizona, ASU, Colorado, BYU
Houston, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech
Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Kansas

(03-03-2022 08:18 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:00 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

My preference?

Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Kansas

We've already penetrated the Midwest with Missouri and Oklahoma. Kansas will help sure it up. The basketball program is always elite and will provide some very nice draws.

FSU, Miami, and Clemson all garner big football ratings and they mesh well. They also complete existing rivalries which pumps up the numbers a little when you're talking about drawing power.

I don't know whether or not we need market penetration in NC and VA, but I think the first 4 I mentioned is the best bang for the buck. UNC is a quality brand and a flagship, but it may require taking Duke. That's not a bad deal, just not the most expedient from where I'm approaching it.

I would take Duke for Olympic sports only. Knowing Frank the Tank like I do, he would want Duke in the B1G for everything.

Wondering if Bill Dazzle and Frank are the same person

LOL - I personally can't stand Duke. They might be my least favorite team, college or pro, in any sport anywhere. However, anyone that thinks that Duke is some type of unwanted add-on (like if a conference was forced to take Texas Tech with Texas, for example) is nuts and doesn't understand conference realignment. Both the Big Ten and SEC would take Duke for all-sports within two seconds: a mega-elite blue blood basketball brand with mega-elite academics directly located in a fast-growing highly educated market is going to get snapped up immediately.

I like Bill Dazzle a lot! He's a great poster and we seem to agree on a lot of things.

However, we are definitely not the same person as you can tell by the long list of teams that he cheers for that are all across the board. In contrast, I'm the purest form of sports fan possible. I cheer for the pro teams from the town that I actually grew up in of Chicago - the Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and White Sox (the latter of which is an even finer point since I grew up on the South Side and that's why I'm a Sox fan instead of a Cubs fan) - and the college that I actually attended (Illinois) along with the law school that I actually attended (DePaul). I'm a pretty open book on that front.

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

Interesting. In my preferable scenario I had the Big Ten taking Syracuse, Pitt, Kansas and ND; then finish it out with the West Coast 6 from the PAC. Whether that happens in real life would depend on whether the conference is proactive or reactive. If the 4-letter decides to start consolidating SEC and ACC properties then there will be a mad scramble, with the outcome not as certain than if the conference isn't at least talking to some programs behind the scenes.

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

How are Florida State's finances in a mess?? I would just like to get more information on that.

Also, are your Clemson contacts taking the SEC's tv contracts into account??

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

I'm sure that the increase for Miami and the decrease for Missouri can be worked out on some kind of sliding formula, JR. Both schools stand to actually make more money on their own by swapping conferences.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...283842001/

I'm sure they are many others with the similar problems.

(03-08-2022 09:00 PM)Porcine Wrote:  https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...283842001/

I'm sure they are many others with the similar problems.

It is virtually the equivalent of the loan SEC schools received to cover lost gate, concessions, and souvenir sales.

Accident? No. Nothing to see here except a conference (ACC) which couldn't lend the assistance to it's members that the SEC did.

(03-08-2022 09:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:00 PM)Porcine Wrote:  https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...283842001/

I'm sure they are many others with the similar problems.

It is virtually the equivalent of the loan SEC schools received to cover lost gate, concessions, and souvenir sales.

Accident? No. Nothing to see here except a conference (ACC) which couldn't lend the assistance to it's members that the SEC did.

Having a large rainy day fund is a whole lot better than scrambling to break even.

It's seems like to me that this is just one more reason why FSU should leave the ACC for the SEC. FSU should be able to recoup a lot of that lost revenue in the SEC, IMO. Thank you Porcine!!!!

Still don't know why everyone thinks K-State is garbage though. I disagree big time!!!

(03-08-2022 11:44 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  It's seems like to me that this is just one more reason why FSU should leave the ACC for the SEC. FSU should be able to recoup a lot of that lost revenue in the SEC, IMO. Thank you Porcine!!!!

Still don't know why everyone thinks K-State is garbage though. I disagree big time!!!

Dawg, FSU is the collegiate version of the USSR when the US transitioned from Carter to Reagan.
Reagan invested heavily in the US military which Carter had ignored, and the Soviets went bankrupt trying to keep up.
FSU got their post Bowden championship under Jimbo, but the drain on resources to get there left Florida State in a financial dilemma. To compound the problem, trying to find a top flight coach in the current market when those coaches know that the well is almost dry is a daunting task.
Increased income only means increased expenses in a "keep up with the Joneses world". Without deep pockets, it's a long process to build enough equity to be competitive and overcome a loser image.

(03-08-2022 11:44 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  It's seems like to me that this is just one more reason why FSU should leave the ACC for the SEC. FSU should be able to recoup a lot of that lost revenue in the SEC, IMO. Thank you Porcine!!!!

Still don't know why everyone thinks K-State is garbage though. I disagree big time!!!

It's not that K-State is now garbage.

Their brand value was historically weak amongst P5 programs. In the 50 years between 1940-1989, they won 0-3 per season 39 times. They only had 4 winning seasons in 50 years. The state of Kansas doesn't supply many recruits nor a wealthy booster/media base. They were the doormat program in college football, as well as the Big 6/7/8. Prior to 1990, K-State football brand value was garbage.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sch...sas-state/

Bill Snyder was then hired and created a winning program. He transformed K-State, mainly via the use of JuCo transfers...basically a prelude to today's portal. Snyder had a great run in 1990s. Then the program regressed to being average and he retired for the first time. His second stint had a good, but shorter run. Snyder retired a second time and is now in his mid-80s...he's not returning to coach again. Excluding Snyder's tenures, K-State has never won more than 8 games. Regardless, K-State still has a losing record against all its Big 8 rivals…not just Oklahoma and Nebraska, also against fellow bottom-dwellers like Kansas and Iowa State.

IMO, K-State is not a football brand.

(03-08-2022 12:16 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 08:18 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 07:00 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

My preference?

Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and Kansas

We've already penetrated the Midwest with Missouri and Oklahoma. Kansas will help sure it up. The basketball program is always elite and will provide some very nice draws.

FSU, Miami, and Clemson all garner big football ratings and they mesh well. They also complete existing rivalries which pumps up the numbers a little when you're talking about drawing power.

I don't know whether or not we need market penetration in NC and VA, but I think the first 4 I mentioned is the best bang for the buck. UNC is a quality brand and a flagship, but it may require taking Duke. That's not a bad deal, just not the most expedient from where I'm approaching it.

I would take Duke for Olympic sports only. Knowing Frank the Tank like I do, he would want Duke in the B1G for everything.

Wondering if Bill Dazzle and Frank are the same person

LOL - I personally can't stand Duke. They might be my least favorite team, college or pro, in any sport anywhere. However, anyone that thinks that Duke is some type of unwanted add-on (like if a conference was forced to take Texas Tech with Texas, for example) is nuts and doesn't understand conference realignment. Both the Big Ten and SEC would take Duke for all-sports within two seconds: a mega-elite blue blood basketball brand with mega-elite academics directly located in a fast-growing highly educated market is going to get snapped up immediately.

I like Bill Dazzle a lot! He's a great poster and we seem to agree on a lot of things.

However, we are definitely not the same person as you can tell by the long list of teams that he cheers for that are all across the board. In contrast, I'm the purest form of sports fan possible. I cheer for the pro teams from the town that I actually grew up in of Chicago - the Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and White Sox (the latter of which is an even finer point since I grew up on the South Side and that's why I'm a Sox fan instead of a Cubs fan) - and the college that I actually attended (Illinois) along with the law school that I actually attended (DePaul). I'm a pretty open book on that front.

Sounds like something Bill Dazzle would say.