(11-15-2021 11:02 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  This line is grotesque from AD Binger during closing:

"You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun".

Uhhh......... no.

He brought the gun as a deterrent.

Wonder how quickly they will come out with a decision?

(11-16-2021 10:20 AM)hburg Wrote:  Wonder how quickly they will come out with a decision?

How quick can they get the KPD and WNG deployed?

I have watched probably 4-5 days worth of the trial live, and watched the entire closing arguments... what a week!

That said... I can't help but have this sneaking feeling (despite OVERWHELMING evidence and an incompetent/corrupt DA) that someone "got" to the jury and we might see Kyle go to prison.

In no sane universe does that happen, though. Money is still on not guilty.

The longer the deliberate the more we know there is disagreement.

Have to wonder how many members of the jury were intimidated by the report of people photographing the jurors? That could play a role. I'd like to think that those people would not sacrifice a kid so that people won't riot or blame/harass the jury. But we know that some people would do that.

Hopefully, the jury is fair minded and brave.

It could mean that they're debating if the charges should be reduced.

(11-16-2021 10:30 AM)hburg Wrote:  The longer the deliberate the more we know there is disagreement.

Aren't there 5 charges to hash out? One does not always immediately mean the next one is the same verdict.

As an interested observer it would seem that this should not take more than 2 days to deliberate. I am guessing that the jury will pin at least one charge to him if for no other reason to appease the blood thirsty.... and possibly to protect themselves from the backlash they are set up to receive.

The second that Glockenspiel dope said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse first all bets should have been off on anything other than self defense. The real problem is why did this kid bring his gun in the first place .... The real reason. If you leave that question to open speculation, the jury is gonna find guilt on something. If they believe the kid's answer as forthright - he should walk.

(11-16-2021 08:40 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:39 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  His fat partner had another great line...”everyone takes a beating at some point.”

I’m sure that one will go over well in the domestic violence cases he prosecutes.

These two are idiots.

my wife was making fun of him... how he was just rambling on and on and was making no sense.

The ending prosecution statement was rather disturbing. In essence, the 'not Binger' pasty gordo ADA argued that Rittenhouse should have taken a beating, at the very least, instead of addressing the threat proportionately.

(11-16-2021 10:20 AM)hburg Wrote:  Wonder how quickly they will come out with a decision?

Two or Three days ?

(11-16-2021 10:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:40 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:39 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  His fat partner had another great line...”everyone takes a beating at some point.”

I’m sure that one will go over well in the domestic violence cases he prosecutes.

These two are idiots.

my wife was making fun of him... how he was just rambling on and on and was making no sense.

The ending prosecution statement was rather disturbing. In essence, the 'not Binger' pasty gordo ADA argued that Rittenhouse should have taken a beating, at the very least, instead of addressing the threat proportionately.

I hope the jurors can see right through that BS.

(11-16-2021 10:40 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 10:30 AM)hburg Wrote:  The longer the deliberate the more we know there is disagreement.

Aren't there 5 charges to hash out? One does not always immediately mean the next one is the same verdict.

As an interested observer it would seem that this should not take more than 2 days to deliberate. I am guessing that the jury will pin at least one charge to him if for no other reason to appease the blood thirsty.... and possibly to protect themselves from the backlash they are set up to receive.

The second that Glockenspiel dope said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse first all bets should have been off on anything other than self defense. The real problem is why did this kid bring his gun in the first place .... The real reason. If you leave that question to open speculation, the jury is gonna find guilt on something. If they believe the kid's answer as forthright - he should walk.

Main charges left (after the judge dismissed the minor in possession charge, and after a breaking of imposed curfew charge earlier)

1. First degree reckless homicide of Rosenbaum (the guy who initially was chasing him) (has to show an utter disregard for human life)

2. First degree reckless endangerment of a person near Rosenbaum.

3. First degree reckless endangerment of a person for shooting at 'jump kick man' (the guy who planted a jump kick on Rittenhouse on the ground)

4. First degree intentional homicide of Huber, the guy who swung a skateboard twice at Rittenhouse's head, and tries to forcibly disarm Rittenhouse.

4a. Second degree intentional homicide for the actions in 4.

4b. First degree reckless homicide for the actions in 4.

5. Attempted first degree intentional homicide of Grosskreutz, the guy who came at Rittenhouse and leveled an illegally carried pistol at him.

Dont recall if attempted second degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless endangerment, and second-degree reckless endangerment for 5 was allowed by the judge.

(11-16-2021 10:40 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 10:30 AM)hburg Wrote:  The longer the deliberate the more we know there is disagreement.

Aren't there 5 charges to hash out? One does not always immediately mean the next one is the same verdict.

As an interested observer it would seem that this should not take more than 2 days to deliberate. I am guessing that the jury will pin at least one charge to him if for no other reason to appease the blood thirsty.... and possibly to protect themselves from the backlash they are set up to receive.

The second that Glockenspiel dope said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse first all bets should have been off on anything other than self defense. The real problem is why did this kid bring his gun in the first place .... The real reason. If you leave that question to open speculation, the jury is gonna find guilt on something. If they believe the kid's answer as forthright - he should walk.

If you are referring to Rittenhouse --

First, Rittenhouse, even if out of state, lived no more than 20 minutes from Kenosha. He had actually worked in the summers in Kenosha.

Second, the owners of the car lot asked a number of people they knew to guard their properties -- 3 lots all in the same are.

The initial round of people asked included a person that knew Rittenhouse, and asked him to join the 'protection group'.

If to Glockenspiel ---

well, just think about that Gross(whatever) never mentioned to the cops that he was armed --- he only noted it after the cops saw the videos much, much later.

(11-16-2021 10:52 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 10:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:40 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 08:39 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  His fat partner had another great line...”everyone takes a beating at some point.”

I’m sure that one will go over well in the domestic violence cases he prosecutes.

These two are idiots.

my wife was making fun of him... how he was just rambling on and on and was making no sense.

The ending prosecution statement was rather disturbing. In essence, the 'not Binger' pasty gordo ADA argued that Rittenhouse should have taken a beating, at the very least, instead of addressing the threat proportionately.

I hope the jurors can see right through that BS.

Actually watched his rebuttal again. It is even worse. Gordo tries to suggest that a defender has to suffer actual injury before being privileged to act in self-defense.

Also remember, that the prosecution made some major reversible error in cross-examining Rittenhouse, when noting (twice) that Rittenhouse had exercised his right against self-incrimination. Followed by the prosecution going down the path of questioning items that had previously been excluded. Schroeder hasnt made a final ruling on the defense motions on those.

The first would be a mistrial, maybe even a mistrial with prejudice.

For the second, a mistrial is possible.

Judge Schroeder is well versed --- my guess is that Schroeder will allow a jury verdict. If not guilty, he doesnt have to do anything drastic --- the jury has solved that problem.

If the jury comes in with a guilty or series of guiltys, Schroeder can preempt the rendering with a ruling for the defense.

My gut feeling is that the first one (right not to implicate issue) is a no-brainer for at least a mistrial, a stretch to get a mistrial with prejudice (that is state cant refile).

That series of violations by the prosecutor really shouldnt be overlooked.

Honestly, I would expect a long time for verdicts. The jury pool was explicitly heavily biased for the prosecution, and many noted that they had a feeling that Rittenhouse was guilty.

But, that isnt enough to exclude --- they have to also indicate that they probably could not consider the facts in the trial objectively. That is, they were 'recovered' by the prosecution by saying 'would you have an open mind and consider the facts at trial'.

But, iirc, something like 13 of the 18 seated noted that they already had a preliminary view on Rittenhouse and it was in a negative manner. I expect longer deliberation simply because of the makeup of the jury.

I could see them stretching for 4b in your earlier post.

My money is on a hung jury.

There are already BLM protesters outside the courthouse... I didnt know that a black person was killed.

(11-16-2021 11:30 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  There are already BLM protesters outside the courthouse... I didnt know that a black person was killed.

It's only right since it occurred at one of their peaceful protests.

(11-16-2021 11:34 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(11-16-2021 11:30 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  There are already BLM protesters outside the courthouse... I didnt know that a black person was killed.

It's only right since it occurred at one of their peaceful protests.

oh thats right, I forgot... their "peaceful" protest.