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America: On the Threshold of Socialism
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BigTigerMike Online
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Post: #61
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-24-2021 09:06 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!

All while ignoring the fact the party is named DEMOCRATS! And ignoring the fact that its the only major party we currently have in this country that actually supports the principles of democracy, like establishing uniform standards we ALL can agree upon for our voting system. Or simply agreeing NOT to try to undermine the faith in our election system. Not to mention other core principles like the separation of church and state. Or simply what's stated in the Preamble of the Constitution.

All of that apparently doesn't matter. What's important is that "Socialism!" boogeyman. The same exact boogeyman tactic that Hitler used to undermine it's democracy and take the world to war. Maybe you should think about what WWII was even about. Or whether you even support democracy anymore before buying into age-old "Socialism!" boogeyman scams to undermine it.

The moment our election system goes away, politics no longer matters. All that matters is the authoritarian at the helm. If they decide your guns are too much of a threat to their power, they are history. Or any other "right" you think they will continue to support. If they no longer answer to the people, the people no longer matter. Apparently most Republicans haven't figure that one out yet.

1. We’re a Republic

2. Why do you want to permanently change the election system when your guy just won the most votes in the history of this country and you won back the Senate?

3 I agree it’s not pure socialim but…..it’s actually fascism and totalitarianism with big corporations and big government in league with each other.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2021 09:50 PM by BigTigerMike.)
10-24-2021 09:29 PM
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AdoptedMonarch Offline
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Post: #62
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-24-2021 09:29 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  
(10-24-2021 09:06 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!

All while ignoring the fact the party is named DEMOCRATS! And ignoring the fact that its the only major party we currently have in this country that actually supports the principles of democracy, like establishing uniform standards we ALL can agree upon for our voting system. Or simply agreeing NOT to try to undermine the faith in our election system. Not to mention other core principles like the separation of church and state. Or simply what's stated in the Preamble of the Constitution.

All of that apparently doesn't matter. What's important is that "Socialism!" boogeyman. The same exact boogeyman tactic that Hitler used to undermine it's democracy and take the world to war. Maybe you should think about what WWII was even about. Or whether you even support democracy anymore before buying into age-old "Socialism!" boogeyman scams to undermine it.

The moment our election system goes away, politics no longer matters. All that matters is the authoritarian at the helm. If they decide your guns are too much of a threat to their power, they are history. Or any other "right" you think they will continue to support. If they no longer answer to the people, the people no longer matter. Apparently most Republicans haven't figure that one out yet.

1. We’re a Republic

2. Why do you want to permanently change the election system when your guy just won the most votes in the history of this country and you won back the Senate?

3 I agree it’s not pure socialim but…..it’s actually fascism and totalitarianism with big corporations and big government in league with each other.

4. It is the DEMOCRATS who have shown a willingness to sic the powers of the state against the general populace - - FBI investigations of parents who have the gall to speak up at their elected officials at school board meetings; forcing banks to snitch on private citizen accounts containing moire than $10,000; year-long pre-conviction incarceration of a bunch of dummies who acted out a drunken fraternity bash in the U.S. Capitol while ignoring organized rioting in the name of “civil rights”.

Yup, sounds very much like socialism to me.

Face it, scorpius, you and your like-minded cohorts are envious losers. The only question is whether normal Americans will allow you all to bring the rest of us down to you losing level.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2021 05:56 AM by AdoptedMonarch.)
10-25-2021 05:39 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-24-2021 09:06 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!
All while ignoring the fact the party is named DEMOCRATS!

It's the party named democrats that are pushing socialism. Or communism. Or, for that matter, fascism. They're three peas in the same pod, and the party that calls itself democrats are pushing us headlong in that direction.
10-25-2021 08:25 AM
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Jugnaut Offline
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Post: #64
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-24-2021 09:06 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!

All while ignoring the fact the party is named DEMOCRATS! And ignoring the fact that its the only major party we currently have in this country that actually supports the principles of democracy, like establishing uniform standards we ALL can agree upon for our voting system. Or simply agreeing NOT to try to undermine the faith in our election system. Not to mention other core principles like the separation of church and state. Or simply what's stated in the Preamble of the Constitution.

All of that apparently doesn't matter. What's important is that "Socialism!" boogeyman. The same exact boogeyman tactic that Hitler used to undermine it's democracy and take the world to war. Maybe you should think about what WWII was even about. Or whether you even support democracy anymore before buying into age-old "Socialism!" boogeyman scams to undermine it.

The moment our election system goes away, politics no longer matters. All that matters is the authoritarian at the helm. If they decide your guns are too much of a threat to their power, they are history. Or any other "right" you think they will continue to support. If they no longer answer to the people, the people no longer matter. Apparently most Republicans haven't figure that one out yet.

Pretty much disagree with everything you said.

The democrats are the party undermining our institutions and democracy. They want to make it easier to cheat, not vote. If it was just about voting, they would support voting integrity measures like photo ID requirements. They want universal mailing of ballots so they can cheat. Let's call a spade a spade. The republicans are trying to protect the integrity of our elections.

Names don't matter that much. Whether socialism, communism, fascism, or authoritarianism. The Dems are trying to institute a form of corporate elite authoritarianism. They don't care about democracy, only power. Hell the Nazis were the national socialist workers party. North Korea is the Democratic Peoples Republic. The Dems are authoritarians by another name.

The republicans have figured out that when our republic and constitution go away that our rights go away. Hence why we are resisting the Dems tooth and nail. We want to preserve the republic whereas leftists and progressives want to destroy it. You're on the wrong side if you really do care about the constitution and the republic. The Dems are the ones destroying it.
10-25-2021 09:20 AM
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Post: #65
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
‘What Do You Think? I Don’t Know’: Biden’s Clueless Response Reveals President’s ‘America Last’ Agenda


Quote:President Biden apparently has no idea when and if his signature legislation, a $3.5 trillion social spending spree, will get a vote in Congress this week.

Biden was confronted by a reporter Monday on the progress of the bill. His response shows a lack of awareness about its status, and at the very least, how to give an answer that reassures America he is ‘on the ball.’

“Do you think you’ll have a plan before Wednesday?” Biden was asked.

“With the grace of God and the goodwill of the neighbors,” he responded.

Biden was then queried if he expected a vote this week.

“What do you think? I don’t know,” he responded.

However, the president is fresh off a meeting with lawmakers on Sunday about the potential to broker a deal on the budget blowout.

A White House official said Biden hosted Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Joe Manchin on Sunday at his Delaware home for breakfast. Biden claimed that there were “some things to work out but it went well.”

“This would be very, very positive to get it done before the trip,” Biden said.

The president hopes to have a deal in place before he leaves for Europe on Thursday for summits in Rome, Italy and Glasgow, Scotland. The timing of the president’s trip is questionable due to a number of factors – both international and domestic. CBS reported that the president’s spending package is facing significant headwinds from senators in his own party.

“Democrats are working to reach consensus on a framework for Mr. Biden’s domestic policy agenda, which will require support from Manchin and Senator Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, both moderate senators who objected to the package’s initial $3.5 trillion price tag,” CBS reported.

“But there is daylight between Manchin and Democratic leaders over the topline number, as the West Virginia senator has said he supports a $1.5 trillion plan, while Mr. Biden set a price range for the legislation at roughly $2 trillion,” the report added. “In addition to trimming the social spending package, Democrats are also hashing out the details of how to pay for it, as the White House faced resistance from Sinema over its plan to raise the corporate tax rate and top income rate rate for the wealthiest Americans.”

President Biden has been touting since early October that he was going to ‘work like hell’ on getting the infrastructure bill and the $3.5 trillion dollar spending bill through Congress. However, the president has been going back to Delaware nearly every weekend that he can, whether to rest outside of the media spotlight or to avoid mandatory reporting on White House visitors.

Despite the White House’s claims to the contrary, party insiders say the president has been almost completely disengaged with Capitol Hill proceedings.

“The president needs to pick up the phone and call people,” Politico reported on Monday, citing a ‘moderate source close to the talks.’ The person said the White House has been in “listening mode” for too long and needed to ‘bang heads’ to get the bills across the finish line.

While it may be encouraging to the Democratic Party faithful that President Biden at least spent part of the weekend trying to hammer out a deal on his pricy spending bill, the president’s trip to attend G20 meetings comes at a time when his attention is needed to address multiple crises at home.

President Biden recently confirmed he will go to the G20 meetings overseas, along with the leaders of Argentina, Australia, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, South Korea, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the European Union.

However, multiple G20 leaders will be skipping the summit to attend to issues back home: Russian President Vladimir Putin, Japan’s new prime minister Fumio Kishida, and Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. They have all announced that they definitely will not attend, although they may virtually attend sessions. Other leaders not expected to attend include Chinese President Xi Jinping and Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro.

Biden should take the hint from the other national leaders and get his own house in order before worrying about the rest of the world. It would be a refreshing start if the president actually knew what was going on.
10-25-2021 12:45 PM
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Post: #66
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(09-26-2021 09:33 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If this doesn’t convince many around here that the Republicans are in the same leagues as Dems and therefore the blue vs red divide in D.C. is a scam then nothing will. It’s all a Uniparty. Yes, there are a few dozen or so in the House and a handful in Senate that are decent; that will actually fight but the rest stay quiet by intent or actively support measures

The only thing we’re haggling over is at the the speed the train is expected to go off the cliff

This is why I haven’t been posting here. It’s just a game to both parties. Both sides hate us. They think we’re beneath them. So I’m done. My voice doesn’t matter anyway so screw it. I don’t care what happens to this country anymore. If I somehow come into a lot of money, I’m buying a small island country and renouncing my citizenship after I relocate there.
10-25-2021 01:21 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #67
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
Update on Democrat Negotiations Shows a Party in Chaos


Quote:While some Democrats have tried to put on a happy face and assert a deal is close, the reality of the negotiations going on around the reconciliation bill paints a different picture. While there may have been a little progress with Joe Manchin over the weekend, Kyrsten Sinema appears to be nowhere in the picture.

Yet, even regarding Manchin, does this sound like a man whose about to hand the left all their wildest dreams?



It’s certainly something to see a sitting senator admit he’s “totally out of sync” with almost every other member of his party. And while The Washington Post proclaimed yesterday that a deal was “coalescing” on Biden’s agenda, complete with a smiling picture of the president, I see no evidence of that at all. Manchin has recently stated that they are nowhere close, and that appears to still be the case.

I do find it interesting that he speaks of “surviving.” Perhaps he’s just talking about the immense harassment he’s received from the left, but he also could be talking about the political line he’s trying to toe. Being from West Virginia, nothing would be better for Manchin than Democrats getting zero. But being a Democrat, he’s desperately tried to provide them with a lifeline by offering a deal. The progressives have remained as stubborn as ever, though.

On that topic, Steny Hoyer, the number 2 person in the Democrat House poured cold water on claims of leverage from the Bernie Sanders wing.



CNN’s Manu Raju is having the progressives whisper sweet nothings into his ear about the blockage of the infrastructure bill and their demands to pass reconciliation at the same time. But as Hoyer points out, what exactly was effective about that play? The answer is nothing. All it did was harden Sinema and Manchin, who felt they had negotiated the infrastructure deal in good faith. Now, Jayapal and others want to try to hold it hostage. But you can’t hold something hostage that doesn’t mean much to the other side. As I said, Manchin would be fine with nothing, and I suspect Sinema isn’t far behind.

In the end, these comments on negotiations show a party in chaos. Their coalition has crumbled, and those that have no leverage refuse to admit that reality. That’s a recipe for stalemate, and that’s exactly what we are currently seeing. The idea that a deal gets done before the end of the month, which is the White House’s goal, is probably a fantasy at this point.

Democrats retreat on spending after failing to get votes for huge tax hikes


Quote:President Joe Biden and progressive Democrats have failed to get the votes for a proposed major overhaul of the tax code and are now being forced to cut the size and scope of their planned infrastructure and social welfare legislative package as well.

Earlier this year, the Biden administration and congressional Democrats presented an ambitious agenda to claw back the 2017 GOP tax cuts and add new levies designed to help finance a planned $3.5 trillion partisan bill. Since the early summer, though, those plans have been pared back or discarded because of opposition from centrist senators who hold the keys to passing any form of reconciliation package.

Democratic Sens. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona and Joe Manchin of West Virginia have been flexing their outsize power to reduce the tax burden imposed as part of the package. The party can’t afford to lose either senator’s support, given that the Senate is split 50-50 and that Vice President Kamala Harris would act as a tiebreaker on any legislation the GOP opposed as a whole.

Sinema, in particular, has reportedly opposed increases in individual and corporate tax rates, measures that Democrats were counting on to offset the bulk of their spending proposals.

Instead, Democrats, in the past few days, have discussed new measures of raising revenue, including a tax on the unrealized capital gains of billionaires.

This is a big departure from the party’s previous goal of clawing in revenue by taxing a wider swath of the wealthy, those making above $400,000 annually. Instead, this tax on billionaires would likely only target fewer than 1,000 people, according to the Wall Street Journal.

The tax, though, would only raise a small amount of revenue relative to the Democrats' spending ambitions. Democrats are now hoping that it and the other tax proposals still in consideration, such as raising taxes on corporations' foreign subsidiaries and stepping up IRS enforcement, might raise around $1.5 trillion. Manchin has said he supports spending around that sum.

Such a downsizing would force Democrats to significantly scale back or eliminate some of the biggest provisions in the bill. In recent days they have reportedly weighed dropping a proposal to expand Medicare benefits as well as a plan for guaranteed paid family and medical leave.

The notion of taxing the unrealized gains of billionaires has been discussed for years. The proposal expected to be discussed in relation to the current spending package is being led by Senate Finance Chairman Ron Wyden, who has yet to release the actual text of the plan. It would likely target those with $1 billion in wealth or those bringing in at least $100 million in income for three consecutive years.

A Finance Committee spokesperson told the Washington Examiner that the new tax would only apply to tradable assets, such as stocks, and not nontradable ones such as real estate or closely held companies.

“I wouldn’t call that a wealth tax, but it would help get at capital gains, which are an extraordinarily large part of the incomes of the wealthiest individuals and right now escape taxation until they’re realized,” Secretary of the Treasury Janet Yellen said over the weekend .

Exact details about how much revenue such a tax on unrealized gains would raise have not yet been released, although House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Sunday that could net between $200 billion and $250 billion over a decade.

A senior policy analyst at the Tax Foundation said that, while the group has not yet finalized an estimate on how much the proposal will bring in, a ballpark estimate would be somewhere between $200 billion and $400 billion over the next 10 years.

Sinema is also reportedly open to a 15% minimum tax on the foreign earnings corporations, which would be designed to crack down on the use of tax breaks that some businesses have been using to achieve lower effective tax rates.

The Tax Foundation found that current changes to international taxation as included in the House version of the legislation would raise about $136 billion in a decade, although that might be a bit lower if the corporate rate remains at 21%. The tax group modeled other options that could generate interest that could raise as much as $550 billion over a 10-year period.

Democrats additionally want to provide the IRS $80 billion over a decade and give it more authority, which the administration claims would raise $700 billion over the next decade. Republicans see that number as dubious and fear giving the IRS more power .

Despite the hurdles, Biden has expressed optimism that Democrats will end up agreeing to a workable package that all of the factions of the party will end up voting for.

"What we're trying to do is reach a point here where I'm able to present to the Senate, they're able to vote on, and the House a serious, serious piece of legislation that changes the dynamic for working-class folks in America and middle-class folks and begins to have the very wealthy and corporations just begin to pay their fair share," the president recently said.

Link


It May Shock You to Know the Democrats Lied When They Promised Not Raise Taxes on the Poor


Quote:Despite all the promises (and dresses!) about taxing the rich and the vows that the poor will not see a penny of tax increases, the Democrats are going full steam ahead with rolling out a pretty significant tax increase on the poorest 20 percent of Americans.

President Joe Biden has pledged not to raise taxes on anyone making less than $400k, but when you look at the data provided by the left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, their own data shows a bigger tax burden on the lowest income earners in America when it comes cigarette and tobacco tax increases. In the Democrats’ tax plan, there is a 1700% hike in the federal tobacco/nicotine tax that is supposed to raise about $100 billion in new revenue.

ITEP’s data shows that will be a bigger tax burden on the low-income earners far more than it would affect the higher income earners.

[Image: unnamed.png]

Detractors will likely tell you that is all but negated by the Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit expansions. But those are seen once a year. The numbers are bigger and more noticeable then, but it’s a killer on a more regular basis for the tobacco taxes that will be paid at the register for the bottom 20 percent, especially in the midst of a potential recession that features high inflation, high gas prices, and regular supply chain failures and shortages.

But this isn’t just about the bottom 20 percent (or the rest of the population that earns under $400,000 per year). This will have a major impact on farmers, which is why Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear has already come out strongly against this. Consider also the tight race for Governor in Virginia, which is the largest tobacco-producing state in the country. It’s also the home of tobacco giant Altria, which will probably lay off a bunch of people if the tax hike goes through.

If that’s not enough for the Democrats, organized labor is coming out pretty hard against this particular tax hike, as well. There’s one group, the union representing workers at a unionized Swedish Match (not-big-tobacco-tobacco-company) factory in Kentucky, that reportedly is in tight with the AFL-CIO – a group I am pretty sure the Democrats don’t want to upset, especially given how split union households were in 2016.

Something else to be considered here: Taxing nicotine doesn’t actually prevent harmful behavior, according to the Tax Foundation.

Taxing based on nicotine content would favor low-nicotine liquids and could encourage increased consumption in the quantity of liquid. For instance, a vapor pod that has a nicotine content of 3 percent and contains 1 ml of liquid would be taxed at $1.67 whereas a vapor pod that has a nicotine content of 5 percent and also contains 1 ml of liquid would be taxed at $2.78 even if there is no difference, or even a negative differential, in broader health effects of the two pods.

For those reasons, using nicotine as a proxy is not a desirable structure. Moreover, nicotine content alone does not determine nicotine absorption since absorption depends on delivery method. For instance, differences in electronic cigarette device design have significant implications for how much nicotine is absorbed by the consumer. In addition to variations among electronic cigarettes, other, and vastly distinct, nicotine products exist. However, due to the flawed definition of nicotine products in the bill, nicotine pouches, a relatively novel product which is consumed similarly to snus or dipping tobacco, will be taxed at very high rates. The high rate is a result of tax being levied on milligrams of nicotine since nicotine pouches contain more of it. Absorption through the mouth is slower than through the lungs, so these products require higher nicotine contents to satisfy consumers. Importantly, higher nicotine content does not translate to higher absorption.

What’s strange is that while smoking is routinely considered the most harmful way to consume tobacco, as the Tax Foundation points out, but it is the least-impacted by the tax hikes proposed by the Democrats. It’s almost as if they are trying to maximize the harm of cigarettes and tobacco products.

Taxing as a means of influencing behavior is not a successful strategy, and it renders the promise not to raise taxes on those earning under $400,000 a year a lie. The Democrats are so hell-bent on raising taxes before a potential loss in 2022 that they seem to be ignoring many factors within their own base that could negatively impact their electoral chances, all for the sake of raising more money for government – money that won’t even come close to making up what will be spent by their own legislation.
10-26-2021 10:13 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #68
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
10-26-2021 11:29 AM
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RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
Joe Manchin Nukes Another Major Biden Priority and Signals More Coming Unrest


Quote:Joe Manchin is the gift that keeps on giving. Well, at least if you are a Republican hoping someone holds the line against Joe Biden’s “build back better” agenda.

The West Virginia senator has already demanded (and will get) deep cuts to the formerly $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. He’s also stood in the gap against some of the more harmful climate change and entitlement provisions. To continue that theme, he nuked another major Biden priority today.

As RedState reported, the progressives have been pushing new reporting requirements to snoop on bank accounts with at least $10,000 in outflows over the course of a year. That would mean the IRS could snoop on the financials of what I would assume is the majority of adult Americans. The administration has claimed that the provision targets billionaires, but that’s ludicrous given the minimums. The plan was also meant to provide more government tax receipts to supposedly make the reconciliation deficit-neutral (LOL).

According to Manchin, that ridiculous, privacy-invading and possibly illegal scheme is off the table.



This serves as another gut punch to Biden’s agenda and further culls the progressive wish-list. It also blows a hole in the Democrat attempt to massage the numbers in order to claim the bill is “paid for.” Reconciliation has specific guidelines in regards to adding to the deficit so that could complicate its entire passage.

Maybe that’s the point, though? I’m starting to get the feeling that Manchin really does not want this thing to pass. He wants the infrastructure deal because it’s bipartisan, providing him cover in a red state like West Virginia, but he gains nothing by being a part of Biden’s boondoggle. The more he obstructs, the more likely the entire thing is to collapse. If this isn’t done by the end of October, and that seems unlikely, this will drag into next year. And if this drags into next year, it probably doesn’t get done at all because of the coming election.

Manchin also signaled more coming unrest between him and his ostensibly Democrat allies.



That’s not something you want to hear from the guy holding the deciding vote on your agenda if you are a Democrat. Manchin has previously denied he’s got a plan to go independent, but it sure does feel like he’s keeping that option on the table, doesn’t it?

This could be another attempt to get the far-left progressives to back off and accept his terms. If they don’t, perhaps he could be pushed to a point where he makes the move. At the very least, Manchin has already announced that he’s fine with none of Biden’s agenda passing. Whether Democrats like it or not, he’s got all the leverage.
10-26-2021 06:42 PM
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scorpius Offline
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Post: #70
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-25-2021 09:20 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Hell the Nazis were the national socialist workers party.

The party’s socialist orientation was basically a demagogic gambit designed to attract support from the working class. By 1921 Hitler had ousted the party’s other leaders and taken over.

This is similar to how today's Republican party's evangelical orientation is basically a demagogic gambit to attract support from social conservatives. But just like how Hitler and the Nazi's turned their backs on socialism (literally went to war with them), the same could easily be true with Republicans and evangelicals once they no longer have to answer to them.

And this begs the questions of what else is actually a demagogic gambit with Republicans. When lying has emerged as their first form of defense, it could be anything. We really don't know WHAT they stand for because if they get their way, all that will matter is whoever ends up being the authoritarian. Trump would be worse than Hitler as far as trying to decode what he would do if he no longer had to answer to anyone.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2021 11:33 PM by scorpius.)
10-26-2021 11:32 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #71
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
The Progressives Flail Wildly After Nancy Pelosi Signals She's Ready to Cave to Joe Manchin


Quote:While the chances of a deal before month’s end are still slim, Joe Manchin may have finally bent Nancy Pelosi to his will. The House Majority Leader had formerly promised to connect the infrastructure deal and the bill containing Joe Biden’s “build back better” agenda. At the time, I opined that it was a major blunder, essentially setting her party up to fail because the progressives simply did not have the leverage to enforce such a move.

In the end, that was correct. Now, Pelosi is signaling she’s ready to cave, allowing the infrastructure bill to be passed before any vote on reconciliation. In fact, she’s willing to do that with only a “framework” in place for the latter.



That move follows on the heals of Pelosi’s second in command, Steny Hoyer, admitting that any further delay in the infrastructure vote does nothing to help Democrats pass their agenda. Pelosi’s concession is significant and shows that her party’s leadership has realized they overplayed their hand.

Unfortunately for Joe Biden, but very fortunately for the rest of the country, the progressive wing still hasn’t gotten the message. Pramila Jayapal continues to strut around like she has any actual negotiation power when the other side, namely Joe Manchin, is willing to settle for nothing passing.



If Jayapal truly has the numbers to stop the infrastructure bill, she’d be nuking some of her own party’s priorities in order to chase a fantasy that is never going to come to fruition. Republicans would be perfectly fine with that, but that doesn’t negate how politically dumb it is.

Cori Bush, perhaps the most radical member of the House (and that’s saying something), confirmed she is in agreement with Jayapal. That probably means the rest of the squad is as well, which would be enough to kill the bill via a party-line vote.

But, that assumes that Republicans don’t step in and ensure its passage by crossing party lines. That’s a very real possibility if the vote ends up close, especially as some of the more squishy GOP members have shown a penchant lately for throwing the Democrats a bone. Perhaps they think they can’t win in 2022 without saying they passed something? Regardless, that means the progressives may not even have the power to stop Pelosi from giving in. You can expect their wild flailing to continue, though, right down to the last minute.
10-27-2021 12:01 PM
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RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
10-27-2021 04:44 PM
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RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism










Nancy Pelosi Takes a Baseball Bat to the Progressive Wing With Latest Demand


Quote:As RedState reported earlier today, Democrats are claiming to have agreed on a “framework” for Joe Biden’s “build back better” agenda. Whether that’s actually true or not is still an open question, given we haven’t heard from Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema. Reality dictates that they are the only two people who truly matter in this situation.

Regardless, Nancy Pelosi is using the news to take a baseball bat to the progressive wing, even as the far-left group of lawmakers spent yesterday evening lodging threats. According to Pramila Jayapal, there are dozens of Democrats ready to kill the infrastructure bill unless there’s something more than a framework on reconciliation. Yet, Pelosi is casting them aside and moving forward anyway, saying she wants the former bill passed today.

As I noted months ago, the Speaker screwed up by ever tying the two bills together, and that’s led to this total about-face.





I don’t know about you, but that last sentence sounds a lot like Manchin and Sinema haven’t actually agreed to anything. That means Pelosi is playing a high-stakes game here, daring the progressives to defy her and the president while having no evidence that she’s secured the agreement she claims to have secured (at least with the number of senators required for final passage). Perhaps Pelosi thinks if she can move fast enough on this, that the progressives don’t have time to organize a true opposition? Or perhaps she thinks Republicans will cross the aisle to push them over the finish line, pushing the progressives completely out of the process?

I’m not sure what the strategy is, but I do know that Democrat leadership is facing some strong headwinds from the far-left members they’ve enabled for so long. Consider this a “chickens coming home to roost” moment.





In the end, this feels a heck of a lot like the last time Pelosi attempted to get a vote on the infrastructure bill done. That was back in early October, and the vote collapsed in the eleventh hour after the progressives nuked the entire ploy. Pelosi has fed the alligator for years, and now she can’t control it anymore.

We will have to see where this ends up. If I were betting on an outcome, I’d say there’s no vote today and Pelosi pulls it at the last minute due to lack of support. I suppose it’s possible that she can promise the progressives enough unicorn farts to get them on board, but I’ll have to see it to believe it.

Hold on to Your Hat: Biden to Announce They Have Framework for Deal on Build Back Better Bill


Quote:The news is breaking this morning that Joe Biden is going to announce that they have a basic framework deal on his Build Back Better social spending reconciliation bill.

The word is that Biden will tell Democrats this morning in a meeting to get them all on board.

A lot of the concessions over the past few days seem to have been in the direction of trying to make the moderates including Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) more amenable to the deal since without their votes the Democrats have no deal. As we have previously noted, they’ve cut the number which had originally been at $3.5 trillion back a lot to appease Manchin and they reportedly also dropped parts of the bill that he thought were going to break the bank, including paid family leave.

Here’s a little window into where they may be right now — this is similar to what we were already saying on the numbers.



But they have no Congressional Budget Office (CBO) score on any of this yet, so this is all just an estimate.

The real question is how bad is the stuff that is still left in there? Because there definitely was a lot bad besides just the price tag, as we have said.

The other thing is even if Biden thinks they have a deal if they’ve come together with Manchin and Sinema, it remains to be seen if all the moderates agree and if they can get the progressives on board. They want the progressives to sign onto and vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill this week based on the promise of a framework of the deal on the reconciliation bill. But first, will they go along with that timing? Plus some are still steaming at the things that the moderates may have forced out of that bill, like paid leave.

Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) has said that a framework will not be enough to secure their votes for infrastructure. So it still remains to be seen if they will have them aboard on this and on the infrastructure bill.



According to CNN’s Manu Raju, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) has told the House progressives he backs their position against moving ahead with the infrastructure bill until the larger economic package moves through the House at the same time,



So will they actually be able to announce they have a deal here? It doesn’t exactly sound like they’re there if the progressives are still objecting to the timing.

But if the progressives now hold up a vote on infrastructure, even with an alleged framework for the bigger reconciliation bill, the liberal anger is going to shift on them next.

So hold onto your hat and pull out the popcorn, we shall have to see where this lands.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2021 12:05 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
10-28-2021 12:02 PM
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bearcat65 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-26-2021 11:32 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(10-25-2021 09:20 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Hell the Nazis were the national socialist workers party.

The party’s socialist orientation was basically a demagogic gambit designed to attract support from the working class. By 1921 Hitler had ousted the party’s other leaders and taken over.

This is similar to how today's Republican party's evangelical orientation is basically a demagogic gambit to attract support from social conservatives. But just like how Hitler and the Nazi's turned their backs on socialism (literally went to war with them), the same could easily be true with Republicans and evangelicals once they no longer have to answer to them.

And this begs the questions of what else is actually a demagogic gambit with Republicans. When lying has emerged as their first form of defense, it could be anything. We really don't know WHAT they stand for because if they get their way, all that will matter is whoever ends up being the authoritarian. Trump would be worse than Hitler as far as trying to decode what he would do if he no longer had to answer to anyone.

That's rich given the totalitarian proposals and actions of democrats. You continue to point to Trump as dictator even as Biden issues executive orders which threaten American's ability to earn a living if they don't take a vaccine. You also champion the party wanting to know when Americans make bank transactions at $600.00. Make no mistake it's democrats who champion socialism and that makes them an enemy to what this country was founded on.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2021 12:29 PM by bearcat65.)
10-28-2021 12:29 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #75
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
Joe Manchin Hits the Brakes on Joe Biden's 'Build Back Better' Victory Lap


Quote:Earlier this morning as RedState reported, the White House took a victory lap, claiming that they had agreed to a framework on the “build back better” bill. The insinuation was that all Democrats were on board, including Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

I was immediately skeptical, though. If there was a deal, why weren’t the two moderates who have all the leverage rushing out to endorse it? Sure enough, it appears that there is no actual deal yet. Manchin stepped in this afternoon to dump cold water on Pelosi’s blitzing attempt to get both bills passed today.



There are a couple of issues here that will have to be resolved before anything can actually pass. Most notably, Manchin has to actually like what is being offered. If he’s not sure about the framework, that makes it sound as if he wasn’t part of the negotiations, or at the very least, he wasn’t in the final meeting on the matter. If he were, he’d be bragging about reaching a deal.

Here, he says that he has to see the text first, and it’s going to take more than a few hours to go through 2,500+ pages. Yes, your federal government is trying to write and pass a 2,500+ page bill in a single day. What could go wrong?

Manchin is obviously concerned about any climate provisions that might have been snuck in that can handicap his home state of West Virginia, but then there’s the second issue at play. That involves whether the bill is “paid for” or not. Of course, it’s never really going to actually be paid for, as it’s just more deficit spending on top of deficit spending, but for the purposes of the reconciliation process, certain “pay for” measures must be present to meet the requirements. That means the CBO is going to have to score the bill, so even if it gets past the House today (despite progressive protestations), it could end up stalled out in the Senate.

Still, as has been expected, it does appear that something will be passed eventually. That was unavoidable, given that Republicans in both chambers do not have the majority necessary to stop things. Yet, if the bill is cut in half, while much of the most damaging, long-term measures are gone, that’s something — considering the alternative.
10-28-2021 02:54 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #76
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism




03-lmfao

(This post was last modified: 10-28-2021 05:23 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
10-28-2021 05:20 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism




10-28-2021 06:36 PM
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scorpius Offline
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Post: #78
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-28-2021 12:29 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  
(10-26-2021 11:32 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(10-25-2021 09:20 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Hell the Nazis were the national socialist workers party.

The party’s socialist orientation was basically a demagogic gambit designed to attract support from the working class. By 1921 Hitler had ousted the party’s other leaders and taken over.

This is similar to how today's Republican party's evangelical orientation is basically a demagogic gambit to attract support from social conservatives. But just like how Hitler and the Nazi's turned their backs on socialism (literally went to war with them), the same could easily be true with Republicans and evangelicals once they no longer have to answer to them.

And this begs the questions of what else is actually a demagogic gambit with Republicans. When lying has emerged as their first form of defense, it could be anything. We really don't know WHAT they stand for because if they get their way, all that will matter is whoever ends up being the authoritarian. Trump would be worse than Hitler as far as trying to decode what he would do if he no longer had to answer to anyone.

That's rich given the totalitarian proposals and actions of democrats. You continue to point to Trump as dictator even as Biden issues executive orders which threaten American's ability to earn a living if they don't take a vaccine. You also champion the party wanting to know when Americans make bank transactions at $600.00. Make no mistake it's democrats who champion socialism and that makes them an enemy to what this country was founded on.

See this is the lies I'm talking about. And you fall for it hook line and sinker. The bank stuff has been going on for decades. Banks have been required to report 20k+ transfers as long as I can remember, or any lesser amounts that were suspicious. Many states for decades have had a reporting limit (I believe $600) on private electronic transfers. I remember 10 years ago I had a debit card cancelled because I funneled too much cash through it. And I have perfect credit. The supervisor finally told me point blank they didn't want to hassle with the reporting requirements. That's when I read up on it. And why I just laugh at you when you act as if this is a new thing.

As far as the vaccine stuff, all I can say is "The good of the many outweigh the good of the few, or the one." Maybe you should watch more Star Trek.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2021 04:59 AM by scorpius.)
10-29-2021 04:54 AM
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Post: #79
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
(10-29-2021 04:54 AM)scorpius Wrote:  
(10-28-2021 12:29 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  
(10-26-2021 11:32 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(10-25-2021 09:20 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Hell the Nazis were the national socialist workers party.

The party’s socialist orientation was basically a demagogic gambit designed to attract support from the working class. By 1921 Hitler had ousted the party’s other leaders and taken over.

This is similar to how today's Republican party's evangelical orientation is basically a demagogic gambit to attract support from social conservatives. But just like how Hitler and the Nazi's turned their backs on socialism (literally went to war with them), the same could easily be true with Republicans and evangelicals once they no longer have to answer to them.

And this begs the questions of what else is actually a demagogic gambit with Republicans. When lying has emerged as their first form of defense, it could be anything. We really don't know WHAT they stand for because if they get their way, all that will matter is whoever ends up being the authoritarian. Trump would be worse than Hitler as far as trying to decode what he would do if he no longer had to answer to anyone.

That's rich given the totalitarian proposals and actions of democrats. You continue to point to Trump as dictator even as Biden issues executive orders which threaten American's ability to earn a living if they don't take a vaccine. You also champion the party wanting to know when Americans make bank transactions at $600.00. Make no mistake it's democrats who champion socialism and that makes them an enemy to what this country was founded on.

See this is the lies I'm talking about. And you fall for it hook line and sinker. The bank stuff has been going on for decades. Banks have been required to report 20k+ transfers as long as I can remember, or any lesser amounts that were suspicious. Many states for decades have had a reporting limit (I believe $600) on private electronic transfers. I remember 10 years ago I had a debit card cancelled because I funneled too much cash through it. And I have perfect credit. The supervisor finally told me point blank they didn't want to hassle with the reporting requirements. That's when I read up on it. And why I just laugh at you when you act as if this is a new thing.

As far as the vaccine stuff, all I can say is "The good of the many outweigh the good of the few, or the one." Maybe you should watch more Star Trek.

Dear lord.
10-29-2021 11:14 AM
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Post: #80
RE: America: On the Threshold of Socialism
Klain Can't Keep the Biden Lies Straight While John Kennedy Brilliantly Takes Them Apart


Quote:As we noted with Joe Biden’s remarks earlier about his Build Back Better bill, he isn’t living in reality.

He’s trying to sell to people that the bill will cost nothing, that it’s “fully paid for.” He also argues that it wouldn’t increase the deficit, indeed, that it will even bring down the deficit.





Who does he think he’s kidding? He isn’t even being honest about the actual cost of the bill.

Not Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) for one. Kennedy had a rather colorful response to the claim that the Biden bill costs “zero dollars.” What a great exchange this is with Fox’s Harris Faulkner.



“Somebody at the White House has been smoking the devil’s lettuce….Either that or they think the American people are morons.”

Got to love Kennedy — his way with words is just wonderful. As for his query, it surely does seem like it, given the lack of sense behind the claim. If only they were smoking weed, it might be understandable. Unfortunately, it’s just them trying to put one over on the rest of us and we aren’t having it.

But as an example of how they can’t even lie well and keep things straight, I bring you White House Chief of Staff, Ron Klain.



“It’s twice as big, in real dollars, as the New Deal was,” Klain says. “This can be the Congress that goes from 12 years of universal education to 14 years; the makes the largest investment in fighting climate change ever; that cuts what families pay for child care in half.”

I’m confused. How can it be “twice as big, in real dollars” if it’s “zero dollars?” Someone is going to have to explain it to me. But of course, how can it be “fully paid for” if it costs “zero dollars,” too? Lots of illogic going on.

Moreover, promising something is twice as big as the New Deal which hooked the government on social spending the likes of which hadn’t been seen before is not a positive. It should set off screeching alarms for anyone who actually cares about spending. And as you can see NBC political reporter Sahil Kapur note, Biden doesn’t have the political support or the support of Americans to justify that level of spending insanity. He has slim majorities at best and we can see how that’s completely hampered him so far. This is why they’ve had so much trouble getting it through even their own party. They can’t even get enough votes on board so far.
10-29-2021 12:39 PM
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