Mturn it is amazing that you continue to push this "certainty" point for a topic that revolves around the hypothetical situation of JMU being in CUSA. It lacks basic common sense.

But anyways, per your source...
"The report’s secondary purpose is to ensure the accuracy of the data the institution is submitting for sports sponsorship, Pell grants and grants-in-aid, which determines the calculation of several Division I NCAA Revenue Distributions."

"The definitions used in the agreed-upon procedures provide a consistent means of reporting intercollegiate athletics finances and will provide the presidents or chancellors and other campus decision makers of our member institutions with empirical data to assist them in making their formal decisions."

So if I may summarize your apparent point....the data/reports are accurate for those that collectively make decisions on hundreds of billions of dollars each year, that they are comparable enough for the NCAA to use them to distribute hundreds of millions between the schools, but they aren't accurate or comparable enough for a couple dudes on an internet forum to argue about a hypothetical situation?

Sorry dude, your sources words, not mine.

(08-18-2021 01:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm just hoping that some of these opinions about accounting aren't reflective of JMU's school of business and you guys are all English majors. It wasn't a good joke.

Can you find me any sort of recognition that ODU's business school / accounting department has ever earned outside of an online MBA ? I literally searched and searched and found nothing. It took 30 seconds to find out that JMU had the 13th best CPA pass rate last year and were Study . com's #9 accounting program in the country last year.

(08-18-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm just hoping that some of these opinions about accounting aren't reflective of JMU's school of business and you guys are all English majors. It wasn't a good joke.

Can you find me any sort of recognition that ODU's business school / accounting department has ever earned outside of an online MBA ? I literally searched and searched and found nothing. It took 30 seconds to find out that JMU had the 13th best CPA pass rate last year and were Study . com's #9 accounting program in the country last year.

How'd you do in that accounting program?

(08-18-2021 01:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm just hoping that some of these opinions about accounting aren't reflective of JMU's school of business and you guys are all English majors. It wasn't a good joke.

Can you find me any sort of recognition that ODU's business school / accounting department has ever earned outside of an online MBA ? I literally searched and searched and found nothing. It took 30 seconds to find out that JMU had the 13th best CPA pass rate last year and were Study . com's #9 accounting program in the country last year.

How'd you do in that accounting program?

Whataboutism?

The convo has regressed to a pissing match now that your own provided sources are contractionary to your entire argument and that you have stopped providing any meaningful insight, which I argued for with Booze. It has left the hypothetical herd and I were first discussing and evolved into your definition of "certainty."

Oh yeah, back to your question, here is the press release from the year I passed the exam.

(08-18-2021 03:20 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm just hoping that some of these opinions about accounting aren't reflective of JMU's school of business and you guys are all English majors. It wasn't a good joke.

Can you find me any sort of recognition that ODU's business school / accounting department has ever earned outside of an online MBA ? I literally searched and searched and found nothing. It took 30 seconds to find out that JMU had the 13th best CPA pass rate last year and were Study . com's #9 accounting program in the country last year.

How'd you do in that accounting program?

Whataboutism?

The convo has regressed to a pissing match now that your own provided sources are contractionary to your entire argument and that you have stopped providing any meaningful insight, which I argued for with Booze. It has left the hypothetical herd and I were first discussing and evolved into your definition of "certainty."

Oh yeah, back to your question, here is the press release from the year I passed the exam.

Da fuq? You're really a CPA? My god man, read the ******* AUP and look at the independent auditors reports, the statements and notes. The auditors do check to make sure the items regarding sports sponsorship, pell grants and grants in aid reported to the NCAA through their reporting system are accurate but those items don't appear in the damn schedules of revenues and expenses. And yes the top reason for these reports is for the leaders of the institutions to be aware of their athletic department. So though there are many items that JMU might include in their athletic department budget that FIU doesn't the lack of comparability between the two doesn't affect the accuracy of either and can be compared to prior years as there is consistency within both.

Christ this is distressing, I figured you were a freaking Marketing major or some ****. And you were going to trot out Bourne's statement regarding the Cox law as your proof and bet $100?!?!? When two paragraphs prior he confirms in no unclear terms the EXACT thing I've been arguing this whole time? Jesus. I'm done.

Here. Starting on page 6 you can see where the auditor confirmed the accuracy of those items reported to the NCAA. Notice it's under "Additional Procedures" and not Income or Expenses.

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/Jame...AA2020.pdf

(08-18-2021 11:12 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 10:49 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 10:13 AM)boozeNammo Wrote:  please, for the love of all that's holy, take this pissing match to a private message... I guarantee that no one is interested other than you two.

There is more educational value underlying our pissing match than anything you have brought to the discussion. I mean herdfan129 is still trying to catch up, but the level of specifics within my pissing match with Mturn is honestly too good for a "rumor" thread. If you get so triggered by some trolling amongst fans working its way into a valid discussion, perhaps a sports message board, and certainly a thread that has brought trolls from at least 4 other schools, isn't the best place for you.

I would tend to agree with Booze n Ammo. As anyone who knows anything about accounting would know, it is alchemy as much as a science. You can take the same financial figures and spin it to show whatever story you want to tell. Accountants routinely take turd sandwiches and make them look like filet mignon, especially in government/institution reporting.

Hell, you say! You listening, Horny?

(08-18-2021 11:44 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 11:09 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 09:49 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Fuckin' A. Is this what a JMU education gets you? I'm going to assume you were a humanities major or something.

OK, tell you what. You move up and join CUSA and in 8-9 years we'll take a look and still won't know because THE NUMBERS AREN'T COMPARABLE. There is no GAAP in athletic reporting, it's the wild west of the accounting world. Sorry, your claims are as meritless as herdfans just trying to prop up the opposite side of the argument. We can make generalities like "Both JMU and FIU are heavily subsidized" but can't say which is more with ANY degree of confidence.

Your argument has gone so far down the rabbit hole that you are having to lean on the degree of similarities need to satisity your own definition of "comparable." Living with your extreme degree of certainty required must be exhausting.

As an opposing approach on life, I can operate with a level of reasonableness on the amounts. I don't need to argue about what is exactly needed to satisfy the specifics of "comparable" or "similar" or "same." I operate in the reality that certainties are nearly nonexistent and that it is unlikely a single line item on ODU, or JMU's, audits are exact to begin with. All that to just reiterate what I already said "I never cared about your bet" as it is based on a stupid premise.

I'll leave it at this. The USA Today database (and its underlying data) is widely sourced by ADs, journalists, university presidents, and perhaps with the lowest degree of credibility required, politicians. It is widely considered the best readily available information and if you cannot use it to drive a discussion, there is no point in having the discussion.

So a philosophy major waiting tables at Applebee's then.

My argument has been pretty steady in that there's no way of telling as the point of the NCAA reporting is not to make them comparable to each other. But since they are the best we have there's really no way either can prove their point. If you want to use those figures though go ahead but they clearly support herdfan's argument that JMU is higher subsidized than any school in CUSA. Strange tactic you've used there.


Don't take my word on it though.

NCAA AUP:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/fi...edures.pdf

"Data available for the agreed-upon procedures may vary among institutions as a
result of differences in athletics programs’ organizational structure, financial
resources and accounting and budgetary methods."

Quote from Bourne:

https://jmusports.com/news/2016/9/1/bour...tters.aspx

"The subject of the size of our budget begins with the transparent approach of JMU."

LOL! That's funny!

(08-18-2021 04:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 03:20 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 01:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm just hoping that some of these opinions about accounting aren't reflective of JMU's school of business and you guys are all English majors. It wasn't a good joke.

Can you find me any sort of recognition that ODU's business school / accounting department has ever earned outside of an online MBA ? I literally searched and searched and found nothing. It took 30 seconds to find out that JMU had the 13th best CPA pass rate last year and were Study . com's #9 accounting program in the country last year.

How'd you do in that accounting program?

Whataboutism?

The convo has regressed to a pissing match now that your own provided sources are contractionary to your entire argument and that you have stopped providing any meaningful insight, which I argued for with Booze. It has left the hypothetical herd and I were first discussing and evolved into your definition of "certainty."

Oh yeah, back to your question, here is the press release from the year I passed the exam.

Da fuq? You're really a CPA? My god man, read the ******* AUP and look at the independent auditors reports, the statements and notes. The auditors do check to make sure the items regarding sports sponsorship, pell grants and grants in aid reported to the NCAA through their reporting system are accurate but those items don't appear in the damn schedules of revenues and expenses. And yes the top reason for these reports is for the leaders of the institutions to be aware of their athletic department. So though there are many items that JMU might include in their athletic department budget that FIU doesn't the lack of comparability between the two doesn't affect the accuracy of either and can be compared to prior years as there is consistency within both.

Christ this is distressing, I figured you were a freaking Marketing major or some ****. And you were going to trot out Bourne's statement regarding the Cox law as your proof and bet $100?!?!? When two paragraphs prior he confirms in no unclear terms the EXACT thing I've been arguing this whole time? Jesus. I'm done.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

(08-18-2021 04:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  My god man, read the ******* AUP and look at the independent auditors reports, the statements and notes.........

....... And you were going to trot out Bourne's statement regarding the Cox law as your proof and bet $100?!?!? .........

Uhhhh?

(08-17-2021 06:10 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 09:31 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-17-2021 12:31 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  If you want to bet $100 to the other schools athletic fund, I'll provide a very reliable source that we would not be most subsidized in CUSA. The source would be much better than you googling USA Today reports.

So many things wrong with this. First you're going to pull out a source from 2016, then what? Compare that to USA Today numbers for other schools? .......

.....look, I liked where you were headed, but we don't even have to use those sources from 2016. We have a couple audit reports from last year that would give us enough to get over the "do masks work?" level of credibility.

I'm going to write this out realllllll slow so that you can follow, okay?

I NEVER referenced Bourne's statement as proof or anything. I pointed his statement out as irrelevant as soon as YOU brought it up. I can't help it that you assume things rather than reading what is stated. The fact is I referenced better sources and as soon as you brought up Bourne/Cox, I brought up the reports and notes that you want to get all excited about it your latest response. You appear to a few steps behind thus far.

Then, your dumb@$$ also assumed I would compare Bourne's statement to USA Today. I clearly said "couple audit reports from last year." Given there is one audit per year, "couple" can only mean that I was discussing audit reports from multiple schools. As you were able to get some sense of intelligence out of that pea sized brain of yours, those reports and notes have details regarding the amounts that go into those ~5 columns of data in USA today. That information allows you to adjust the headline numbers from USA Today to get to a more credible level of comparability.

I initially thought you were somewhat competent, but now that you have posted sources that disproved your point, then came back with proof that you were too dumb to understand the initial bet, and now proof that you have been lost from the beginning. You are at the peak of mount stupid.

I’ll take your bet then. Release the Kraken.

:::::Orders fifth tub of buttered popcorn:::::

(08-18-2021 06:17 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I’ll take your bet then. Release the Kraken.

El

Oh

El

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

(08-18-2021 06:17 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I’ll take your bet then. Release the Kraken.

You proved you cannot follow a simple conversation and bring up things 20 posts later as if its some new insight. You showed you require an extremely high level of accuracy for something that doesn't support your opinion and then use wild assumptions for your own points. You have already said you give no degree of certainty to the underlying details of the bet topic. I'd have to be dumb as an ODU grad to jump into a bet on hypotheticals after you showed you don't have a clue how to be reasonable.

But.......sometimes smart people do stupid things.

So, given my initial statement - if you want a bet, you have to agree to be okay with estimates in this hypothetical world that JMU is in the CUSA and you have to agree that perfect information will be impossible to obtain and sometimes estimates will have to be made (I mean heck even your precious reports consider $2.3M a rounding error).

EDIT: One more thing, before I waste my time with all this analysis, you need to admit you were way off base for talking sh!t about an accounting program that runs f'ing circles around the ODU program.

(08-18-2021 06:42 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  :::::Orders fifth tub of buttered popcorn:::::

(08-18-2021 06:58 PM)panama Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 06:17 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I’ll take your bet then. Release the Kraken.

El

Oh

El

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Enjoy the show fellas

4,323,959

Go ahead DoubleDogDare. Let’s see your presentation.

(08-18-2021 08:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  4,323,959

Go ahead DoubleDogDare. Let’s see your presentation.

Is that code for I can be a reasonable person and JMU accounting runs circles around ODU?

Rails =============================

Train: =-=-=-==o>

Wheels:


O o o o o o o o

(08-18-2021 08:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  4,323,959

Go ahead DoubleDogDare. Let’s see your presentation.

Is that code for I can be a reasonable person and JMU accounting runs circles around ODU?

I’d like to see the very reliable source you promised. Surely it wasn’t an estimation of growth JMU would experience upon entering CUSA. You wouldn’t quote yourself as a very reliable source would you? But that’s the amount of additional athletic department revenues JMU would have to produce to be less dependent than FIU by .01% according to USA Today. A very manageable number I’d agree but a profoundly stupid argument and not at all what you’d promised. Forgive me, im assuming again. I’ll be quiet now and let you show off that JMU degree.

(08-18-2021 09:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  4,323,959

Go ahead DoubleDogDare. Let’s see your presentation.

Is that code for I can be a reasonable person and JMU accounting runs circles around ODU?

I’d like to see the very reliable source you promised. Surely it wasn’t an estimation of growth JMU would experience upon entering CUSA. You wouldn’t quote yourself as a very reliable source would you? But that’s the amount of additional athletic department revenues JMU would have to produce to be less dependent than FIU by .01% according to USA Today. A very manageable number I’d agree but a profoundly stupid argument and not at all what you’d promised. Forgive me, im assuming again. I’ll be quiet now and let you show off that JMU degree.

Sources have already been noted, twice. How did you calculate the $4.3M in additional revenue, that would be a significantly lower burden of proof than what I thought.

(08-18-2021 09:25 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 09:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:49 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(08-18-2021 08:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  4,323,959

Go ahead DoubleDogDare. Let’s see your presentation.

Is that code for I can be a reasonable person and JMU accounting runs circles around ODU?

I’d like to see the very reliable source you promised. Surely it wasn’t an estimation of growth JMU would experience upon entering CUSA. You wouldn’t quote yourself as a very reliable source would you? But that’s the amount of additional athletic department revenues JMU would have to produce to be less dependent than FIU by .01% according to USA Today. A very manageable number I’d agree but a profoundly stupid argument and not at all what you’d promised. Forgive me, im assuming again. I’ll be quiet now and let you show off that JMU degree.

Sources have already been noted, twice. How did you calculate the $4.3M in additional revenue, that would be a significantly lower burden of proof than what I thought.

I calculated it using algebra.

What sources?