(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

That's the narrative ESPN is pushing, but it simply isn't true. First, even if Notre Dame went all-in for football, you're only talking an extra 4.5 games per year under the ACC TV contract. Second, there ARE other ways to get more money.

This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

(08-03-2021 09:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

Echoes of the dieing Big East all over again.

(08-03-2021 10:10 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

Echoes of the dieing Big East all over again.

History does tend to repeat.

(08-03-2021 09:23 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Minor bowl tie-in's and staying in a power conference.

What, they get to participate in ACC bowls? Couldn't ND get pretty much any bowl tie that they want?

(08-03-2021 10:16 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:23 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Minor bowl tie-in's and staying in a power conference.

What, they get to participate in ACC bowls? Couldn't ND get pretty much any bowl tie that they want?

Minor bowls mostly and the Orange bowl. The arrangement helped with scheduling and allowed us to keep our non-revs in a power conference.

Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

(08-03-2021 10:16 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:23 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Minor bowl tie-in's and staying in a power conference.

What, they get to participate in ACC bowls? Couldn't ND get pretty much any bowl tie that they want?

No, the conferences have taken most of the minor bowl tie ins.

ND joined the ACC instead of the Big East for the following:

1) P5 level for basketball, baseball, etc..

2) Help with November football scheduling,

3) Minor bowl tie ins,

4) Football games in the Southeast for recruiting purposes.

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

(08-03-2021 09:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

That's the narrative ESPN is pushing, but it simply isn't true. First, even if Notre Dame went all-in for football, you're only talking an extra 4.5 games per year under the ACC TV contract. Second, there ARE other ways to get more money.

This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

Any new ACC member would need to generate approximately $32.4 million annually, the conference’s average share, just to keep everyone’s piece of the pie static. To bump that per-school distribution by $1 million in what would then be a 15-team league, add $15 million to that $32.4 million, or $47.4 million.

To increase distributions by $3 million, we’re talking $77.4 million in additional revenue from one school, the original $32.4 million plus three multiples of $15 million, or $45 million.

Outside of Texas and OU...ND is the only school that can bring in $77.4 Million or more. So unless ESPN is going to over pay for an underperforming TV market to join the ACC it is not happening unless ND joins. It is just that simple....I guess we could talk about unrealistic scenarios where USC leaves the Pac to join the ACC... But outside of that the ACC and ND are tied at the hip.

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

(08-03-2021 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

Cincinnati is a much better add than West Virginia from a potential earnings standpoint.

(08-03-2021 02:47 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

ND's TV revenues are smaller than any P5 program, not total revenues.

But, ND is okay with that. They see it as the price of independence, a price that they gladly pay.

That TV revenue disparity will go down when ND re-negotiates its TV deal that expires in 2025.

You are incorrect that ND's total athletic revenues are lower than P5 schools

ND is currently #5 or 6 (I forget which) in total revenues.

(08-03-2021 04:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:47 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

ND's TV revenues are smaller than any P5 program, not total revenues.

But, ND is okay with that. They see it as the price of independence, a price that they gladly pay.

That TV revenue disparity will go down when ND re-negotiates its TV deal that expires in 2025.

You are incorrect that ND's total athletic revenues are lower than P5 schools

ND is currently #5 or 6 (I forget which) in total revenues.

You are 6th nationally with 165.6 million and change.
The ACC has two full members in the top 25; FSU is 10th at 155.6 and Louisville is 15th at 140.8. Clemson is 26th at 122.3.

(08-03-2021 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

This is where you’re losing me. Surely there are other ways to open the contract without adding another mouth to feed?

(08-03-2021 10:12 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:10 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

Echoes of the dieing Big East all over again.

History does tend to repeat.

This. ^ People with various conferences have been wasting oxygen on ND for decades.

Notre Dame officials and supporters have always been very clear about what they want. Choose to believe them. It saves time.

I agree with the writer who said 'If your conference expansion plan involves adding ND, you don't have a plan.'

______

(08-03-2021 05:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

This is where you’re losing me. Surely there are other ways to open the contract without adding another mouth to feed?

I'd like to think so.

(08-03-2021 05:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  This is where you’re losing me. Surely there are other ways to open the contract without adding another mouth to feed?

(08-03-2021 07:03 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I'd like to think so.

Scheduling a vote to disband would do it.

Remember how ESPN scrambled to find cash for B12 schools as the conference was about to break up? And the PAC was about to get four of the schools?



_____

(08-03-2021 06:51 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:12 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:10 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  This fixation on the Irish is not healthy.

Echoes of the dieing Big East all over again.

History does tend to repeat.

This. ^ People with various conferences have been wasting oxygen on this for decades.

Notre Dame officials and supporters have always been very clear about what they want. Choose to believe them. It saves time.

I agree with the writer who said 'If your conference expansion plan involves adding ND, you don't have a plan.'

______

Wise words.

You would think that people would understand this.

Timeline:

1991---ND signs the NBC deal as a stand alone independent

1995-- ND joins the Big East after telling everyone that football will never be included

1999--ND rejects an invitation to join the Big Ten in all sports.

2012--ND joins the ACC after telling everyone that football will never be included.

2020---ND quickly runs back to independence from a one year pandemic football conference membership the second that it can.


That is 30 years of a uniformly consistent message.

However, that has not stopped fans from other schools hoping for and posting about "ND football into a conference" scenarios during most of that time frame.