(08-03-2021 07:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That is 30 years of a uniformly consistent message.

Let the record show that during a pandemic the Irish played one season of football as a member of a conference: the ACC.

By all accounts the association was a success for all parties. No riots occurred in South Bend on the lawn of the AD. The Irish played for a conference championship and the school came out ahead financially.

Crisis easing, what did ND do? It declined to repeat the arrangement while simultaneously working for an independence-enabling 12-team playoff.

Get the hint, message boards of the world. They know what they want.

_____

(08-03-2021 08:14 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 07:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That is 30 years of a uniformly consistent message.

Let the record show that during a pandemic the Irish played one season of football as a member of a conference: the ACC.

By all accounts the association was a success for all parties. No riots occurred in South Bend on the lawn of the AD. The Irish played for a conference championship and the school came out ahead financially.

Crisis easing, what did ND do? It declined to repeat the arrangement while simultaneously working for an independence-enabling 12-team playoff.

Get the hint, message boards of the world. They know what they want.

_____

An interesting thing was the reaction of the ND administration, alumni and fan base to the one year football conference membership.

As you stated, it was an objective success for ND in all regards.

Many thought that if ND got a taste of the "good life" of conference membership, that attitudes would change and ND would warm up greatly to the idea.

The actual result was the opposite.

ND and its fans did not like the experience all that much and instead embraced independence even more strongly than before.

Not exactly the result that many expected and hoped for.

(08-03-2021 04:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:47 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 06:52 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The only way West VA gets in or anybody for that matter is if Notre Dame joins. For the ACC, its all about Notre Dame, if they dont join the ACC does not expand!

We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

ND's TV revenues are smaller than any P5 program, not total revenues.

But, ND is okay with that. They see it as the price of independence, a price that they gladly pay.

That TV revenue disparity will go down when ND re-negotiates its TV deal that expires in 2025.

You are incorrect that ND's total athletic revenues are lower than P5 schools

ND is currently #5 or 6 (I forget which) in total revenues.

Don't get mad at me...here is the quote....and the link is below..FWIW it is a great read IMHO

“There is no financial advantage to Notre Dame being independent in terms of operations,” Swarbrick said. “It costs us money. We would be much better off all in with the ACC or any Power 5 conference. But it is the broader value it produces. And this is the dynamic that’s always a bit hard to articulate and engage in for the fans just focused on whether you’re going to win the national championship. That is very important to all of us, but the decisions we make don’t just drive to that question.”


Link
https://theathletic.com/1068782/2019/07/...dependent/

Scheduling a vote to disband would do it.





_____
[/quote]

This is what I would like to see. Everyone free to go or stay with new deal.

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(08-03-2021 05:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 04:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:47 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:58 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  We are not joining anytime soon so that means the ACC is stuck.

I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

ND's TV revenues are smaller than any P5 program, not total revenues.

But, ND is okay with that. They see it as the price of independence, a price that they gladly pay.

That TV revenue disparity will go down when ND re-negotiates its TV deal that expires in 2025.

You are incorrect that ND's total athletic revenues are lower than P5 schools

ND is currently #5 or 6 (I forget which) in total revenues.

You are 6th nationally with 165.6 million and change.
The ACC has two full members in the top 25; FSU is 10th at 155.6 and Louisville is 15th at 140.8. Clemson is 26th at 122.3.

CONTEXT....CONTEXT...CONTEXT...I do not think think Swarbrick was talking about TOTAL Revenue or the National BRAND...or overall value...He was talking TV Revenue and comparing INDY to conference membership... However you can read his quote for yourself:

https://theathletic.com/1068782/2019/07/...dependent/

I guess someone should say something about the B1G maybe inviting Kansas.

Anyone? Anyone?

(08-03-2021 08:45 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  I guess someone should say something about the B1G maybe inviting Kansas.

Anyone? Anyone?

My guess is IF they add Kansas they will add Iowa State...Both are AAU Schools

Link
Big Ten Reportedly Only Interested in AAU Schools: https://pistolsfiringblog.com/big-ten-re...clude-osu/

Link
What would the Big Ten look like with the addition of Kansas and Iowa State? Big16
https://www.insidenu.com/2021/7/29/22597...iowa-state

POD A
Iowa
Iowa State
Nebraska
Kansas

POD B
Illinois
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Minnesota

POD C
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue

POD D
Maryland
Ohio State
Penn State
Rutgers

(08-03-2021 08:45 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  I guess someone should say something about the B1G maybe inviting Kansas.

Anyone? Anyone?

I'm skeptical.

(08-03-2021 08:54 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  My guess is If they add Kansas they will add Iowa State...Both are AAU schools

That makes sense. The pods make sense, too. Suddenly Nebraska doesn't seem like such an odd fit.

I hope they do it.

(08-03-2021 05:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 10:53 AM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody is fixating on Notre Dame…

Fact 1 - ND joining the football conference would increase the amount of money the conference would make as a whole

Fact 2 - No other realistic add would do that

Fact 3 - ND prefers independence, therefore they are not realistic

Fact 4 - Please refer to Fact 2


Everybody is hung up on programs outside the ACC improving the conference because they’ve played well in a G5 conference. You don’t just add more ingredients to improve the recipe, you improve the ingredients you have in your garden that are used for the recipe.

Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

This is where you’re losing me. Surely there are other ways to open the contract without adding another mouth to feed?

Serious question...would contraction of a school(s) reopen it for the ACC? Less inventory would certainly not increase the total pay, but more attractive matchups may cause ESPN to just keep it at current levels with less shares to divide. Of course, that is not preferred and likely not going to happen with the conference as the driver of a contraction request, but that seems plausible as an alternative to expansion to reopen to contract.

(08-03-2021 08:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:45 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  I guess someone should say something about the B1G maybe inviting Kansas.

Anyone? Anyone?

I'm skeptical.

How so? Because of the Kansas football suckage?

(08-03-2021 08:38 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 05:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 04:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:47 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:17 AM)b2b Wrote:  I've often wondered why ND didn't join the other Catholic schools in the Big East. That, to me anyway, seems like a much more logical fit. Plus you wouldn't have had to play the ACC in football which would've freed up the schedule for bigger games.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The Irish created their ACC scheduling agreement in football out of necessity and is why they did not go with the BIG EAST. When the College Football Playoff started in 2013, Notre Dame didn't have automatic bowl access. The Rose Bowl was taken by the Big Ten and Pac-12. The SEC and Big 12 partnered in the Sugar Bowl. The ACC champion played in the Orange Bowl during years when it wasn't in the playoff.

That's not to say Notre Dame couldn't go to a bowl. It just didn't have any spots reserved for it. So ND & ACC came to an agreement. ND play 5 ACC teams per year and they would have access to the annual ACC Bowl lineup.

FWIW - Swarbrick told The Athletic in 2019 that Notre Dame would be "much better off" going all-in with the ACC. The money would definitely be bigger. Even with and the CFP distribution, Notre Dame's revenue doesn't approach that of an average Power Five program. However ND wants to stay Indy as long as possible...when they are ready to join, the ACC will gladly accept them!

ND's TV revenues are smaller than any P5 program, not total revenues.

But, ND is okay with that. They see it as the price of independence, a price that they gladly pay.

That TV revenue disparity will go down when ND re-negotiates its TV deal that expires in 2025.

You are incorrect that ND's total athletic revenues are lower than P5 schools

ND is currently #5 or 6 (I forget which) in total revenues.

You are 6th nationally with 165.6 million and change.
The ACC has two full members in the top 25; FSU is 10th at 155.6 and Louisville is 15th at 140.8. Clemson is 26th at 122.3.

CONTEXT....CONTEXT...CONTEXT...I do not think think Swarbrick was talking about TOTAL Revenue or the National BRAND...or overall value...He was talking TV Revenue and comparing INDY to conference membership... However you can read his quote for yourself:

https://theathletic.com/1068782/2019/07/...dependent/

Go back and read your original post.

Then, read my original response.

Your first post said that ND was behind all P5 schools in revenues.

I responded by saying that was true only for TV revenues, not total revenues.

Now, I think that you are saying the same thing that I did.

Kansas seems like a stretch to me. The SEC just got the two top names on the board. The B1G is going to respsond with #20? There just are not a lot of pluses for Kansas.

(08-04-2021 06:47 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Kansas seems like a stretch to me. The SEC just got the two top names on the board. The B1G is going to respsond with #20? There just are not a lot of pluses for Kansas.

Well, they took Rutgers, so...

(08-03-2021 09:05 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 05:56 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 03:02 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 02:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 11:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Fact 2 is not a fact, it's an opinion.

Then why aren’t P5 (P4?) conferences expanding with those programs? I’ll wait

Still waiting?


The ACC's situation is different from all other conferences in one important way: when the ACC signed a 12-year deal back in 2010, they locked up media rights at 2010 market rates. True, there was a small escalator ($1 to $2M per year), but that didn't come close to keeping up with the market. Then the ACC extended its contract twice, so that it's now locked into 2013 prices until 2036. This is a huge reason why the ACC is so far behind.

Bottom line: the ACC is grossly, hilariously underpaid (by my estimate, at least $6M per school per year too low). That's why that "no one but Notre Dame" mantra is untrue - literally ANY team which allows the ACC to reopen the contract should result in an increase. Now the biggest increase would come if they could renegotiate the games already under contract - but that would probably require binding arbitration (not sure if that's in the contract or not).

Now, does ESPN want the ACC to add Notre Dame? Duh! But they may end up giving the conference a bump to take WVU or Cincinnati or whoever they want to park in the conference.

This is where you’re losing me. Surely there are other ways to open the contract without adding another mouth to feed?

Serious question...would contraction of a school(s) reopen it for the ACC? Less inventory would certainly not increase the total pay, but more attractive matchups may cause ESPN to just keep it at current levels with less shares to divide. Of course, that is not preferred and likely not going to happen with the conference as the driver of a contraction request, but that seems plausible as an alternative to expansion to reopen to contract.

I’m not sure, but it wouldn’t be forced contraction. I’m pretty sure I read in the GOR that no member can be voted out until 2036 or whenever it is.

(08-03-2021 09:04 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:54 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  My guess is If they add Kansas they will add Iowa State...Both are AAU schools

That makes sense. The pods make sense, too. Suddenly Nebraska doesn't seem like such an odd fit.

I hope they do it.

I think they take Colorado if they do take Kansas. But, I wouldn't see why they would waste membership spots with schools in such small populations states, and poor recruiting locations when they can wait 15 years and break into the south by taking from the ACC.

(08-04-2021 07:02 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-04-2021 06:47 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Kansas seems like a stretch to me. The SEC just got the two top names on the board. The B1G is going to respsond with #20? There just are not a lot of pluses for Kansas.

Well, they took Rutgers, so...

They've got that goin' for 'em.

Big 10 pods

Penn state, Rutgers, Maryland, West Virginia
Michigan, Ohio state, northwestern, Illinois
Indiana, Purdue, Michigan state, Wisconsin
Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas

Gordon gee comes through

(08-04-2021 09:55 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Big 10 pods

Penn state, Rutgers, Maryland, West Virginia
Michigan, Ohio state, northwestern, Illinois
Indiana, Purdue, Michigan state, Wisconsin
Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas

Gordon gee comes through

STOP! You'll start a new WVU to the B1G video from Blue and Gold Dude.

In a historic turn of events the Penn Quakers join the Big 10!

I kid, but that would be insane if Penn joined that eastern quad with Penn State, Rutgers, and Maryland.