(07-28-2021 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  tweet
Pete Thamel

Breaking: The Big 12 has sent a "cease and desist" letter to ESPN. The letter demands ESPN end "all actions that may harm the conference and its members and that it not communicate with the Big 12 Conference's existing members....
or any NCAA conference regarding the Big 12 conference's members, possible conference realignment or potential financial incentive or outcomes related to possible conference realignment."

SI also reporting that ESPN reached out to one other Big 12 member about it switching conferences

Dennis Dodd at CBS Sports is saying they were trying to convince 3-5 schools to go join the American.

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6208568324

ESPN has only half the XII TV deal (split with Fox), but they have 100% of AAC. Moving them to ACC wouldn't add enough value for the requisite renegotiation of their current media deal that goes through 2035. Getting a critical mass to leave the XII would have the added benefit of reducing the UT/OU buyout.

E: I pulled up his story. The 3-5 teams to AAC claim is straight from XII commissioner Bowlsby. https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...onference/

Bowlsby added:"I have every expectation that Oklahoma and Texas will do whatever they can to not meet their [contractual] obligations. That's what they've done so far. ... One of the ways the two schools and ESPN will seek to absolve themselves of the obligation is to destabilize the league and cause an implosion of the other eight members.

"I am absolutely certain ESPN employees have discussed and provided incentives for at least one conference to raid 3-5 members from the Big 12. In doing so, they are prepared to reward them with future television proceeds. If the conference goes away as an entity, Oklahoma and Texas could be relieved from their exit obligations. Those obligations at this time would include the payment of $70M to $80M -- two years full revenue -- per school and leaving their media rights with the Big 12.

"We're just not going to sit still and let somebody who is supposed to be our partner collaborate and disrupt our business. I know with certainty they are doing it relative to one conference. I suspect they have done the same thing in moving Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC."

(07-28-2021 06:22 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  tweet
Pete Thamel

Breaking: The Big 12 has sent a "cease and desist" letter to ESPN. The letter demands ESPN end "all actions that may harm the conference and its members and that it not communicate with the Big 12 Conference's existing members....
or any NCAA conference regarding the Big 12 conference's members, possible conference realignment or potential financial incentive or outcomes related to possible conference realignment."

SI also reporting that ESPN reached out to one other Big 12 member about it switching conferences

Dennis Dodd at CBS Sports is saying they were trying to convince 3-5 schools to go join the American.

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6208568324

ESPN has only half the XII TV deal (split with Fox), but they have 100% of AAC. Moving them to ACC wouldn't add enough value for the requisite renegotiation of their current media deal that goes through 2035. Getting a critical mass to leave the XII would have the added benefit of reducing the UT/OU buyout.

E: I pulled up his story. The 3-5 teams to AAC claim is straight from XII commissioner Bowlsby. https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...onference/

Bowlsby added:"I have every expectation that Oklahoma and Texas will do whatever they can to not meet their [contractual] obligations. That's what they've done so far. ... One of the ways the two schools and ESPN will seek to absolve themselves of the obligation is to destabilize the league and cause an implosion of the other eight members.

"I am absolutely certain ESPN employees have discussed and provided incentives for at least one conference to raid 3-5 members from the Big 12. In doing so, they are prepared to reward them with future television proceeds. If the conference goes away as an entity, Oklahoma and Texas could be relieved from their exit obligations. Those obligations at this time would include the payment of $70M to $80M -- two years full revenue -- per school and leaving their media rights with the Big 12.

"We're just not going to sit still and let somebody who is supposed to be our partner collaborate and disrupt our business. I know with certainty they are doing it relative to one conference. I suspect they have done the same thing in moving Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC."

I wonder if the Big XII lawyers can get copies of ESPN's relevant e-mails and docs before they're destroyed.

Thought the ESPN/AAC collusion story is certainly juicy, the following statements by the Marshall President are probably more relevant to our school's possible future if we reamin up at the G5 level:

Quote:As conference realignment in college athletics has quickly become the topic of conversation heading into another academic year, Marshall University President Jerome Gilbert says his institution is taking a ‘wait and see’ approach.

Gilbert told MetroNews on Tuesday at an unrelated event that most Group of 5 schools are taking the same approach as Marshall, watching what happens with the Power 5 schools.

“If there is more movement there, then there might be some individuals universities that would move up to the autonomous five. In which case, that would create an opportunity for discussions within the Group of 5 to reshuffle,” Gilbert said.

“It’s ultimately too early to start talking about that. If it’s just two teams and the Big 12 reestablishes themselves and does not dissolve or come down to a smaller number, I think things will stabilize. If more universities were to depart, I think we would see more movement and more unstable conditions in all the different conferences.”

If the conference attempts to stay afloat, an idea would be to add a few premiere Group of 5 institutions from the AAC. Gilbert said if the dominoes begin to fall in the Group of 5, he would not rule out a complete reshuffle of everyone including Conference USA and Sun Belt.

“One idea is we could all get together and say let’s redivide the schools into more regional conferences, which would be a good thing,” Gilbert said.

Gilbert told MetroNews that he has enjoyed Marshall’s time in Conference USA. Gilbert became the 37th president of Marshall in January 2016, after the last realignment.

“It’s a very large conference, spans from West Texas to West Virginia and beyond. It’s a challenge in terms of distance. I’ve gotten to know the presidents at the other institutions. It’s been an enjoyable association,” he said.

“And I get to travel to the away games in some far away places.”

I don’t think that will have any negative impact on Marshall. We are such a strong brand athletically,” Gilbert said. “We just won the national championship in soccer, we’ve always been strong in football, we have good basketball programs and other sports. So our athletic brand is so strong, I don’t think there would be any danger of anything negative happening to Marshall.

“I think there is an opportunity for positive things happening for Marshall as all of this reshuffles.”

link: https://wvmetronews.com/2021/07/28/gilbe...alignment/

(07-28-2021 07:05 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  I wonder if the Big XII lawyers can get copies of ESPN's relevant e-mails and docs before they're destroyed.

Not sure how much they can get out of these:

Quote:Gilbert said if the dominoes begin to fall in the Group of 5, he would not rule out a complete reshuffle of everyone including Conference USA and Sun Belt.

“One idea is we could all get together and say let’s redivide the schools into more regional conferences, which would be a good thing,” Gilbert said.

Something like the western conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TxSt
Rice
ArkSt
UL-M
UL-L
LaTech
USM
UT-A (non-football)
UA-LR (non-football)

and the east:
UAB
FAU
FIU
Marshall
MTSU
UNC-C
ODU
WKU
USA
Troy
GaSo
GaSt
Coastal
AppSt

It's 12 teams in the west (with only 10 in football) and 14 in the east, but anything else doesn't really make geographic sense without breaking up Troy, UAB, and USA.

(07-28-2021 09:28 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

Quote:Gilbert said if the dominoes begin to fall in the Group of 5, he would not rule out a complete reshuffle of everyone including Conference USA and Sun Belt.

“One idea is we could all get together and say let’s redivide the schools into more regional conferences, which would be a good thing,” Gilbert said.

Something like the western conference:
UTEP, UTSA, UNT, TxSt, Rice, ArkSt, UL-M, UL-L, LaTech, USM, UT-A (non-football), UA-LR (non-football)

and the east:
UAB, FAU, FIU, Marshall, MTSU, UNC-C, ODU, WKU, USA, Troy, GaSo, GaSt, Coastal, AppSt

It's 12 teams in the west (with only 10 in football) and 14 in the east, but anything else doesn't really make geographic sense without breaking up Troy, UAB, and USA.

To me, when I posted the article and quotes above, it seemed he was also including the AAC. Of course, they might have more pressing legal issues to consider now... but I think that would make the "math" of the new divisons make more sense.

(07-28-2021 09:28 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

Quote:Gilbert said if the dominoes begin to fall in the Group of 5, he would not rule out a complete reshuffle of everyone including Conference USA and Sun Belt.

“One idea is we could all get together and say let’s redivide the schools into more regional conferences, which would be a good thing,” Gilbert said.

Something like the western conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TxSt
Rice
ArkSt
UL-M
UL-L
LaTech
USM
UT-A (non-football)
UA-LR (non-football)

and the east:
UAB
FAU
FIU
Marshall
MTSU
UNC-C
ODU
WKU
USA
Troy
GaSo
GaSt
Coastal
AppSt

It's 12 teams in the west (with only 10 in football) and 14 in the east, but anything else doesn't really make geographic sense without breaking up Troy, UAB, and USA.

Such a conference would be the ultimate in irrelevance. If that were the only option, drop football.

If that is our only option, I agree drop football and send a thank you note to Leebron for not doing a damn thing for athletics .

(07-28-2021 11:33 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  If that is our only option, I agree drop football and send a thank you note to Leebron for not doing a damn thing for athletics .

Agree. That’s a nightmare.

Easy comp for Rice powers that be is SMU. We are not that far removed from dominating them on an annual basis, and yet they have spent money on facilities, coaches, recruiting, and marketing and now- when it matters- they are in many conversations about new conferences, increased payouts, etc., while we have about as much exposure and chatter as Sam Houston or Lamar.

Lots of jokes on here a few years ago about SMU’s spending on facilities and the fact that it hadn’t had much impact. Right now is when it can. Not saying it will, but does anyone honestly think we are ahead of them in any way anymore? SMU- the school that took 30 years to recover from the death penalty- is way ahead of us.

(07-28-2021 07:05 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  I wonder if the Big XII lawyers can get copies of ESPN's relevant e-mails and docs before they're destroyed.

Ken Starr is on the case!

(07-29-2021 12:04 AM)Middle Ages Wrote:  Lots of jokes on here a few years ago about SMU’s spending on facilities and the fact that it hadn’t had much impact. Right now is when it can. Not saying it will, but does anyone honestly think we are ahead of them in any way anymore? SMU- the school that took 30 years to recover from the death penalty- is way ahead of us.

Those comments about SMU were more to the point that all those facilities didn't mean much until they got the right people in place. They rebuilt their football stadium and then went through Cavan, Bennett, Jones, Mason, and Morris, before finding what looks like a winner in Sonny Dykes. Facilities won't solve your problems without the right people in place.

And Rice hasn't exactly stood still as far as facilities. Since SMU came back from the death penalty, Rice has built Reckling, Tudor, the new tennis facility, and the football end zone facility (which was supposed to solve all our problems, remember). And Leebron was a bigger factor in getting at least some of those done than many appear to realize. Our facilities still pale by comparison to those at places like Bama or LSU or aTm or TexasU, but that's not really our main problem.

(07-29-2021 12:04 AM)Middle Ages Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 11:33 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  If that is our only option, I agree drop football and send a thank you note to Leebron for not doing a damn thing for athletics .

Agree. That’s a nightmare.

Easy comp for Rice powers that be is SMU. We are not that far removed from dominating them on an annual basis, and yet they have spent money on facilities, coaches, recruiting, and marketing and now- when it matters- they are in many conversations about new conferences, increased payouts, etc., while we have about as much exposure and chatter as Sam Houston or Lamar.

Lots of jokes on here a few years ago about SMU’s spending on facilities and the fact that it hadn’t had much impact. Right now is when it can. Not saying it will, but does anyone honestly think we are ahead of them in any way anymore? SMU- the school that took 30 years to recover from the death penalty- is way ahead of us.

SMU got into the AAC. Realistically they’ve had 1-2 good seasons in football since we were dominating them. They also hired a cheater in basketball to get national recognition but no one remembers that part just the decent teams.

(07-28-2021 09:28 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

Quote:Gilbert said if the dominoes begin to fall in the Group of 5, he would not rule out a complete reshuffle of everyone including Conference USA and Sun Belt.

“One idea is we could all get together and say let’s redivide the schools into more regional conferences, which would be a good thing,” Gilbert said.

Something like the western conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TxSt
Rice
ArkSt
UL-M
UL-L
LaTech
USM
UT-A (non-football)
UA-LR (non-football)

and the east:
UAB
FAU
FIU
Marshall
MTSU
UNC-C
ODU
WKU
USA
Troy
GaSo
GaSt
Coastal
AppSt

It's 12 teams in the west (with only 10 in football) and 14 in the east, but anything else doesn't really make geographic sense without breaking up Troy, UAB, and USA.

Ah, the mythical Rock Bottom Conference! Fantastic.

(07-29-2021 06:40 AM)erice Wrote:  Ah, the mythical Rock Bottom Conference! Fantastic.

Problem is, the way we've played the last few years, we'd be at or near the rock bottom of that Rock Bottom Conference.

It may be truly be the Rock Bottom Conference, but if we were dominating it and winning it every year and winning our bowl every year, we'd attract attention further up the food chain. Going 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 doesn't attract attention from anywhere higher up. What we need to do is quit b****ing about what league we are in and start dominating it.

(07-29-2021 07:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 06:40 AM)erice Wrote:  Ah, the mythical Rock Bottom Conference! Fantastic.

Problem is, the way we've played the last few years, we'd be at or near the rock bottom of that Rock Bottom Conference.

It may be truly be the Rock Bottom Conference, but if we were dominating it and winning it every year and winning our bowl every year, we'd attract attention further up the food chain. Going 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 doesn't attract attention from anywhere higher up. What we need to do is quit b****ing about what league we are in and start dominating it.

I can hardly wait until we go DIII and Trinity and Southwestern are kicking our.....

I am tired of hearing Rice hit rock bottom football and does imply rock bottom in sports.
We have dominated women sports in Conf USA and also in Houston. We should push this side in joining another conference if it comes to that in addition to the acadamics.

(07-29-2021 07:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 06:40 AM)erice Wrote:  Ah, the mythical Rock Bottom Conference! Fantastic.

Problem is, the way we've played the last few years, we'd be at or near the rock bottom of that Rock Bottom Conference.

It may be truly be the Rock Bottom Conference, but if we were dominating it and winning it every year and winning our bowl every year, we'd attract attention further up the food chain. Going 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 doesn't attract attention from anywhere higher up. What we need to do is quit b****ing about what league we are in and start dominating it.

(07-29-2021 09:28 AM)Texasowl Wrote:  I am tired of hearing Rice hit rock bottom football and does imply rock bottom in sports.
We have dominated women sports in Conf USA and also in Houston. We should push this side in joining another conference if it comes to that in addition to the acadamics.

Only one problem. Nobody in any conference we want to join cares about academics or women's sports. It's all about money and demonstrated commitment to the money sports, and we bring neither to the table.

(07-29-2021 09:28 AM)Texasowl Wrote:  I am tired of hearing Rice hit rock bottom football and does imply rock bottom in sports.
We have dominated women sports in Conf USA and also in Houston. We should push this side in joining another conference if it comes to that in addition to the acadamics.

(07-29-2021 07:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 06:40 AM)erice Wrote:  Ah, the mythical Rock Bottom Conference! Fantastic.

Problem is, the way we've played the last few years, we'd be at or near the rock bottom of that Rock Bottom Conference.

It may be truly be the Rock Bottom Conference, but if we were dominating it and winning it every year and winning our bowl every year, we'd attract attention further up the food chain. Going 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 doesn't attract attention from anywhere higher up. What we need to do is quit b****ing about what league we are in and start dominating it.

Agreed

Look, we all know that Football (and basketball) drive eyeballs and revenue dollars, but women's sports as well as a few others are driven by social justice, opportunity and equity... which whether one likes it or not, these ARE hot buttons receiving significant amounts of money and attention today.

While getting a UTSA or UTEP degree is certainly preferable over no degree at all... i.e. ANY opportunity is better than NO opportunity... the opportunity of a top 20 education is VASTLY more.

Push THAT. Push our strengths THERE. Push the idea that our presence can help them reduce the 'drag' on their big sports which of course isn't as great as adding to the top end of their big sports, but we also bring a different cohort, including perhaps international eyeballs, so we do add SOMETHING.

Everyone else is more of the same, fighting over the same pie. Change the narrative.

As we converse here, literally, the two bell cow programs of the XII are in the process of moving to the richest conference in the country. How big a consideration do you think women's or Olympic or non-revenue (take your pick) sports have been in those negotiations? My over and under is that they maybe spent 5 minutes, total, between both schools, taking about them.

That being said, I have felt for some time (and I think Hambone agrees) that building those sports could be a route to a renaissance in Rice athletics. They don't cost much, their athletes tend to be true student-athletes, and they probably relate well to a significant part of both students and faculty. Heck, those of us here in the 1960s and 1970s saw Harry Fouke build UH into at least a regional power starting with a golf team.

(07-29-2021 11:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  As we converse here, literally, the two bell cow programs of the XII are in the process of moving to the richest conference in the country. How big a consideration do you think women's or Olympic or non-revenue (take your pick) sports have been in those negotiations? My over and under is that they maybe spent 5 minutes, total, between both schools, taking about them.

That being said, I have felt for some time (and I think Hambone agrees) that building those sports could be a route to a renaissance in Rice athletics. They don't cost much, their athletes tend to be true student-athletes, and they probably relate well to a significant part of both students and faculty. Heck, those of us here in the 1960s and 1970s saw Harry Fouke build UH into at least a regional power starting with a golf team.

I guarantee that women's sports have played no part.

I'm just saying that there IS an audience for our position, especially among college Presidents, faculty, students and the government. There is ZERO audience for the position that Rice brings 50,000 fans or 100,000 eyeballs or top 20 football or basketball programs.

YES!! Take UT and OU for the money. Take Rice for the diversity and inclusion. It's EXACTLY the same argument for Title IX sports. If you want to spend another 100mm on premier men's sports, you have to spend another 10mm on women's/Olympics. Rice is the 10mm.