I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

(05-03-2021 09:29 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

Wayne is not coming back to Rice (even to visit) until JK is gone. Sad, but true. He has repeatedly turned down an honoring ceremony.

(05-03-2021 09:29 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

FIFY...

1) Say buh-bye to JK.
2) Invite WG back in whatever capacity he would like, i.e., head baseball coach for a proper farewell tour, AD, head football coach, athletics advisor, etc.
3) Have WG actively participate in selecting a successor. (How active is dependent on outcome of #2.)

What I think Wayne should have gotten in the first place: A one-year sunset cruise with his successor onboard as an assistant, then move up to AD.

What it would take to get him back on campus now in any capacity including visitor: At least firing JK, not sure even that would be enough.

I like the idea and moving on from Bragga seems plausible at this point, but JK has done enough with the non-revenue sports, especially all the women programs, that I don't think he gets axed anytime soon.

JK blew his chance of doing the proper thing back then and basically put all his eggs in the Bragga turnaround basket by doing what he did. I think by now we can conclude he miscalculated the whole thing. Is that enough for him to lose his job and for the door to open for a proper WG farewell tour?

(05-03-2021 10:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What I think Wayne should have gotten in the first place: A one-year sunset cruise with his successor onboard as an assistant, then move up to AD.

What it would take to get him back on campus now in any capacity including visitor: At least firing JK, not sure even that would be enough.

The departure of JK and the hiring of Hallmark would almost certainly due the trick. I think he and Tanya would continue to live in Austin, but they'd definitely visit Reckling and would probably finally accept a proper sendoff ceremony in his honor.

(05-03-2021 10:13 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:29 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

FIFY...

1) Say buh-bye to JK.
2) Invite WG back in whatever capacity he would like, i.e., head baseball coach for a proper farewell tour, AD, head football coach, athletics advisor, etc.
3) Have WG actively participate in selecting a successor. (How active is dependent on outcome of #2.)

I like this Tomball. Can JK ASAP, who cares if women's sports are kicking butt. That is not going to change anytime soon.

The OG can be head of the mystical arts for all I care, just extend the olive branch.

(05-03-2021 10:40 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 10:13 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:29 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

FIFY...

1) Say buh-bye to JK.
2) Invite WG back in whatever capacity he would like, i.e., head baseball coach for a proper farewell tour, AD, head football coach, athletics advisor, etc.
3) Have WG actively participate in selecting a successor. (How active is dependent on outcome of #2.)

I like this Tomball. Can JK ASAP, who cares if women's sports are kicking butt. That is not going to change anytime soon.

The OG can be head of the mystical arts for all I care, just extend the olive branch.

I wish Rice would have offered mystical arts when I was on campus in the mid-70s. Such knowledge would have come in handy over the last 40+ years!

(05-03-2021 10:35 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 10:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What I think Wayne should have gotten in the first place: A one-year sunset cruise with his successor onboard as an assistant, then move up to AD.
What it would take to get him back on campus now in any capacity including visitor: At least firing JK, not sure even that would be enough.

The departure of JK and the hiring of Hallmark would almost certainly due the trick. I think he and Tanya would continue to live in Austin, but they'd definitely visit Reckling and would probably finally accept a proper sendoff ceremony in his honor.

A few months ago, I asked Wayne how was his relationship with DelConte. His reply, "Well, Tanya and I are building a house about 3 blocks from his, if that gives you a clue." I think Wayne has now pretty firmly returned to his Longhorn roots.

I think he might go as far as coming back for a proper sendoff, but I think that's about the upper limit.

(05-03-2021 10:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:29 AM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not care if he is 85. There is no way he runs a team this poorly. Even in his latter years we ALWAYS had a fighting chance!

Let him pick a successor (like we should have done when we ran him out of town), stick said successor on the staff, and give him the ride into the sunset that he always deserved.

Make amends and treat him like we should have the first time.

Wayne is not coming back to Rice (even to visit) until JK is gone. Sad, but true. He has repeatedly turned down an honoring ceremony.

If this is true (and I know it is) then the correct response seems obvious. Keep Stacy Mosely though.

If JK is the reason he will not come back and the same bozo is the guy who ran our major men's sports into the ground, then the response seems obvious. GET RID OF THE CLOWN!

We are talking about one of the most successful college baseball coaches of all time not wanting to come back to the program he built to be honored. In what universe is that normal!?!?

We need to right this before it is too late. The OG is not getting any younger and if he does not get the credit and honor he deserves over at Reckling before it is too late I know I will be disgusted and plenty of others will be as well. Send ole Joe packing!!!

While I am all for honoring the incredible career and record WG compiled while here (and he did remarkable things for the program and school), he was winning games because he was trotting out MLB players to stars in his line-ups, and those that were not at that level, were very fine, highly skilled baseball players. I am not sure what he could do with this current collection of scholarship athletes, and in light of the standard "well, he couldn't do worse", I am not so sure about that. His presence would also end any recruiting momentum (do we have any? I hear different sides of that) we have. No one is signing up their 17 year old to go play for a head coach that would be 86 next year and not likely to be around for that kid's entire career.

Should we put Wayne back in charge of the team? No. (Should we let Bragga keep running the team...no, but that's another issue).

Should we welcome Wayne back to campus with open arms to be honored? Yes.

Since that requires firing JK, do it. That's not even close to the only reason he should be fired, just one more reason thrown on top.

Get rid of JK and his Stanford crew ASAP. Send them packing and how much better things get.

I do not see WG having a .411 overall winning percentage and .271 in conference. He brought out the most in players and I do believe that even at age 86 he still probably could.

As for recruiting, with a successor/coach in waiting on staff I don't see how that declines. Heck even with a brand new coach and WG as the advisor in the process of some sorts I think that is appealing to recruits. We need a fresh start because this experiment has failed.

I find myself chuckling writing this because we have butt heads plenty of times, but Walt hits the nail on the head. Firing Joe and the Palo Alto crew would be a great start, followed by hiring Pat away from UTSA. Even with a .500 record this year, Pat is a great coach and knows this program through and through. I will also note that I am more than happy with Lance or Jose Jr. as well because we simply need Rice blood to reinvigorate the program.

Joe has gotta go followed by the worst ad reader in the country.

(05-03-2021 12:55 PM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not see WG having a .411 overall winning percentage and .271 in conference. He brought out the most in players and I do believe that even at age 86 he still probably could.

As for recruiting, with a successor/coach in waiting on staff I don't see how that declines. Heck even with a brand new coach and WG as the advisor in the process of some sorts I think that is appealing to recruits. We need a fresh start because this experiment has failed.

I find myself chuckling writing this because we have butt heads plenty of times, but Walt hits the nail on the head. Firing Joe and the Palo Alto crew would be a great start, followed by hiring Pat away from UTSA. Even with a .500 record this year, Pat is a great coach and knows this program through and through. I will also note that I am more than happy with Lance or Jose Jr. as well because we simply need Rice blood to reinvigorate the program.

Joe has gotta go followed by the worst ad reader in the country.

This has been beat to death. But in the best years, Graham had an assistant that had a great pipeline to get kids sent to him. When that coach left and the pipeline along with some "Ability to recruit" issues, the slow decline of Rice baseball began. This was a program in decline during most of the 2010's and not a very good program his last 3 years. Did JK mismanage the transition? ALmost certainly, but a change without a doubt needed to be made.

(05-03-2021 02:12 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 12:55 PM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not see WG having a .411 overall winning percentage and .271 in conference. He brought out the most in players and I do believe that even at age 86 he still probably could.

As for recruiting, with a successor/coach in waiting on staff I don't see how that declines. Heck even with a brand new coach and WG as the advisor in the process of some sorts I think that is appealing to recruits. We need a fresh start because this experiment has failed.

I find myself chuckling writing this because we have butt heads plenty of times, but Walt hits the nail on the head. Firing Joe and the Palo Alto crew would be a great start, followed by hiring Pat away from UTSA. Even with a .500 record this year, Pat is a great coach and knows this program through and through. I will also note that I am more than happy with Lance or Jose Jr. as well because we simply need Rice blood to reinvigorate the program.

Joe has gotta go followed by the worst ad reader in the country.

This has been beat to death. But in the best years, Graham had an assistant that had a great pipeline to get kids sent to him. When that coach left and the pipeline along with some "Ability to recruit" issues, the slow decline of Rice baseball began. This was a program in decline during most of the 2010's and not a very good program his last 3 years. Did JK mismanage the transition? ALmost certainly, but a change without a doubt needed to be made.

Yes things got away from him towards the end but we NEVER were this bad. Not even comparable. The teams from his final years would demolish any Bragga team.

And yes change was needed and I certainly said as much back then, as did most everyone who participates in this forum. That bein said, the change of the guard was handled so poorly and with such a flavor of the moment hire that we have dug a massive hole. Let someone who knows the university, program, city, etc. get us out of it. And by doing so let's not alienate the guy who there should be buildings and all sorts of stuff named after. He should feel welcome and honored when he comes - instead he is not willing to even visit this city let alone the university. Truly sad.

(05-03-2021 02:12 PM)AggieOwl84 Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 12:55 PM)RiceOwl Wrote:  I do not see WG having a .411 overall winning percentage and .271 in conference. He brought out the most in players and I do believe that even at age 86 he still probably could.

As for recruiting, with a successor/coach in waiting on staff I don't see how that declines. Heck even with a brand new coach and WG as the advisor in the process of some sorts I think that is appealing to recruits. We need a fresh start because this experiment has failed.

I find myself chuckling writing this because we have butt heads plenty of times, but Walt hits the nail on the head. Firing Joe and the Palo Alto crew would be a great start, followed by hiring Pat away from UTSA. Even with a .500 record this year, Pat is a great coach and knows this program through and through. I will also note that I am more than happy with Lance or Jose Jr. as well because we simply need Rice blood to reinvigorate the program.

Joe has gotta go followed by the worst ad reader in the country.

This has been beat to death. But in the best years, Graham had an assistant that had a great pipeline to get kids sent to him. When that coach left and the pipeline along with some "Ability to recruit" issues, the slow decline of Rice baseball began. This was a program in decline during most of the 2010's and not a very good program his last 3 years. Did JK mismanage the transition? ALmost certainly, but a change without a doubt needed to be made.

Can we please stop with this??
a) ALMOST certainly? c'mon. Have you EVER heard of an AD coming in and alienating so completely the greatest coach a school has ever had in ANY sport?? My biggest question is, why did JK think that he knew better than OG how to fix it?? Or that he thought Bragga knew better how to fix it?

That's some pretty massive huevas there to do that, decline or no.

b) Funny how a program fails to win the conference for the first time in 20+ years and the comment is that 'Wayne was in decline' as opposed to also involving others simply getting better. Besides, I'm still waiting for us to return to the levels of that decline. It's a long way up from what I see today.

(05-03-2021 12:19 PM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  While I am all for honoring the incredible career and record WG compiled while here (and he did remarkable things for the program and school), he was winning games because he was trotting out MLB players to stars in his line-ups, and those that were not at that level, were very fine, highly skilled baseball players. I am not sure what he could do with this current collection of scholarship athletes, and in light of the standard "well, he couldn't do worse", I am not so sure about that. His presence would also end any recruiting momentum (do we have any? I hear different sides of that) we have. No one is signing up their 17 year old to go play for a head coach that would be 86 next year and not likely to be around for that kid's entire career.

Very few are advocating he should come back to coach, and almost all of us agreed it was time to transition from him back in 2018. It was the embarrassing and disrespectful way it was handled that grates on people.

BTW, you're not giving Wayne his due as a developer of talent. Very, very few of his all-american and all-conference players over the years were elite prospects or were even drafted out of high school. Jose Cruz and Joe Savery were the two elite (Top 100) prospects. A number of others were drafted out of high school, but almost all of those were drafted in Round 20 or below. Up until his final few years at Rice, Wayne had a talent for finding the diamond in the rough, and then refining that diamond into a top MLB prospect. Glenn Otto was his last recruit that fit that mold.

(05-03-2021 03:53 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 12:19 PM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  While I am all for honoring the incredible career and record WG compiled while here (and he did remarkable things for the program and school), he was winning games because he was trotting out MLB players to stars in his line-ups, and those that were not at that level, were very fine, highly skilled baseball players. I am not sure what he could do with this current collection of scholarship athletes, and in light of the standard "well, he couldn't do worse", I am not so sure about that. His presence would also end any recruiting momentum (do we have any? I hear different sides of that) we have. No one is signing up their 17 year old to go play for a head coach that would be 86 next year and not likely to be around for that kid's entire career.

Very few are advocating he should come back to coach, and almost all of us agreed it was time to transition from him back in 2018. It was the embarrassing and disrespectful way it was handled that grates on people.

BTW, you're not giving Wayne his due as a developer of talent. Very, very few of his all-american and all-conference players over the years were elite prospects or were even drafted out of high school. Jose Cruz and Joe Savery were the two elite (Top 100) prospects. A number of others were drafted out of high school, but almost all of those were drafted in Round 20 or below. Up until his final few years at Rice, Wayne had a talent for finding the diamond in the rough, and then refining that diamond into a top MLB prospect. Glenn Otto was his last recruit that fit that mold.

Once again, correct. Lots of players who were never even drafted out of HS or after college ended up being great players and every day starters with significant roles as well. Ford Stainback comes to mind (yes he played pro but as a FA).

The OG got a ton out of guys who others may not have. He had an eye for talent and how to get the most out of players. Best I can tell is the developmental side of Bragga is next to non existent. Not much improvement in many players thus far other than the normal maturity and understanding of the game.

Alas, fire JK and bring an Owl home to lead us. And let Wayne be a part of it!!!

(05-03-2021 03:53 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 12:19 PM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  While I am all for honoring the incredible career and record WG compiled while here (and he did remarkable things for the program and school), he was winning games because he was trotting out MLB players to stars in his line-ups, and those that were not at that level, were very fine, highly skilled baseball players. I am not sure what he could do with this current collection of scholarship athletes, and in light of the standard "well, he couldn't do worse", I am not so sure about that. His presence would also end any recruiting momentum (do we have any? I hear different sides of that) we have. No one is signing up their 17 year old to go play for a head coach that would be 86 next year and not likely to be around for that kid's entire career.

Very few are advocating he should come back to coach, and almost all of us agreed it was time to transition from him back in 2018. It was the embarrassing and disrespectful way it was handled that grates on people.

BTW, you're not giving Wayne his due as a developer of talent. Very, very few of his all-american and all-conference players over the years were elite prospects or were even drafted out of high school. Jose Cruz and Joe Savery were the two elite (Top 100) prospects. A number of others were drafted out of high school, but almost all of those were drafted in Round 20 or below. Up until his final few years at Rice, Wayne had a talent for finding the diamond in the rough, and then refining that diamond into a top MLB prospect. Glenn Otto was his last recruit that fit that mold.

I have not researched this to see who else was omitted from your list, but I am really surprised you have already forgotten about a 3rd baseman who started Rice in the fall of 2007 and was a highly successful college player, and has forged an excellent career in MLB. He was expected to go in round 7 or so out of Lamar HS in Houston, but dropped because of signability concerns and did not sign with the Braves, that year, opting to honor his commitment.