Update on this publishes Monday morning, with quotes from the MVC and others.

(04-30-2021 08:33 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Update on this publishes Monday morning, with quotes from the MVC and others.

I've heard nothing lately, so I'm curious. Will be ready.

(04-30-2021 08:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2021 08:33 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Update on this publishes Monday morning, with quotes from the MVC and others.

I've heard nothing lately, so I'm curious. Will be ready.

MVC is a tight-knit, everyone-knows-everyone league with several high quality beat writers, so credit to Matt that he’s the only one to uncover this stuff.

(04-23-2021 02:51 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-23-2021 02:28 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(04-23-2021 06:29 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-22-2021 11:21 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(04-21-2021 01:25 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I cited sources indicating they have been considered in recent history.

In my eyes that makes them fair game for discussion and completely logical to put on a list of 12 possible candidates for 2 slots

I just explained to you and then an MVC fan just came and explained to you the difference between adding to stay at ten and adding to expand to twelve.

That you got so personally wrapped up in this fact based assessment that didn't fit your proposal is beyond me. In the end it didn't do you any good and as I said UMKC has zero chance. Neither does Omaha.

The MVC poster is correct and I stated earlier that 12 only happens if the number 1 and 2 target agree. I'm not sure 11 happens if the number 1 target says no. That's how dicey the tip choices are on an expanded MVC. It's got to be the right kind of schools in order for the math to add up. Denver doesn't work not only because they don't have history but the cost of travel is prohibitive for them and likely the league. While Omaha and KC look nice on the map, their control of the market (I guess Omaha is a market?) Is limited, their geography isn't really all that much of a plus, and they add zero athletically currently or historically.

Sorry that's just the way it is

Said all that from the beginning.

Made a list of 12 top candidates and paired them off in public/private geographic pairs. Nothing more, nothing less

Oh is that why when told they don't fit the mold you got very defensive about their past inclusions? Because of geography and private/public? Which by the way you really stretched a long unnecessary way to do overlooking other schools that better matched the geography?

You can just stop digging. Sorry you got so wrapped up in a anonymous internet discussion. Have a good day.

To me when putting together a list of possible candidates it makes sense to use recent history. To you I guess it doesn't.

What other schools besides UWM would you include that I did not?

I am not sure you are in touch with reality. So I will again propose this question to you.

When was the last time the MVC considered expansion and not replacement. I'll take the answer off air.

There is no history here. The list of schools considered as replacements and schools who are qualified for expansion are not the same. All dolphins are porpoises, not all porpoises are dolphins.

The list the MVC will consider for expansion has to add value, because drum roll, they share tourney revenue which means someone who does not add value is going to take money from the others. No one is voting for that. The same reason the MVC presidents aren't all adding a trip to Denver for tennis, and golf, and etc no one is voting to add a travel cost that won't be adding to tourney credits their main source of incomes.

It's not a list that needed added to, it needed badly cut down.

(04-30-2021 09:06 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-30-2021 08:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2021 08:33 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Update on this publishes Monday morning, with quotes from the MVC and others.

I've heard nothing lately, so I'm curious. Will be ready.

MVC is a tight-knit, everyone-knows-everyone league with several high quality beat writers, so credit to Matt that he’s the only one to uncover this stuff.

Full credit to Matt, indeed.

I look forward to seeing what Matt found out. I’m curious how serious some of these talks were. Were some ADs and Presidents just spit balling ideas or is the MVC serious about going to 12 and they are just sorting out The Who component?

(05-01-2021 11:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I look forward to seeing what Matt found out. I’m curious how serious some of these talks were. Were some ADs and Presidents just spit balling ideas or is the MVC serious about going to 12 and they are just sorting out The Who component?

As a long-time fan of the band The Who, your post made me take pause.

(05-01-2021 07:10 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2021 11:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I look forward to seeing what Matt found out. I’m curious how serious some of these talks were. Were some ADs and Presidents just spit balling ideas or is the MVC serious about going to 12 and they are just sorting out The Who component?

As a long-time fan of the band The Who, your post made me take pause.

Auto correct kept insisting I meant the band—I got tired of fighting with it.

(05-01-2021 09:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-01-2021 07:10 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2021 11:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I look forward to seeing what Matt found out. I’m curious how serious some of these talks were. Were some ADs and Presidents just spit balling ideas or is the MVC serious about going to 12 and they are just sorting out The Who component?

As a long-time fan of the band The Who, your post made me take pause.

Auto correct kept insisting I meant the band—I got tired of fighting with it.

My computer lets me type autocorrect as autotypo, but my tablet changes it to autogyro.

I do think the hybrid will not last long with the MVC and the CAA. They will split like the AAC and the Big East.

I would love to see MVC become all schools with football again.

Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Murray State
North Dakota State
Western Illinois
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State

It would become a much stronger football and men's basketball conference than where all the schools are at now. Men's basketball can't pay the bills alone.

(05-01-2021 09:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-01-2021 07:10 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2021 11:36 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I look forward to seeing what Matt found out. I’m curious how serious some of these talks were. Were some ADs and Presidents just spit balling ideas or is the MVC serious about going to 12 and they are just sorting out The Who component?

As a long-time fan of the band The Who, your post made me take pause.

Auto correct kept insisting I meant the band—I got tired of fighting with it.

Unless if their's a cooperative reorganization with the Summit or Horizon, a split won't happen. I also can't see Youngstown State joining an all-sports league like that, unless of there is a serious commitment to divisional play across all sports.

Summit :
Denver, Kansas City, Oral Roberts, Omaha, Drake, St. Thomas, Bradley, Loyola-Chicago, Evansville, Valparaiso

Denver sticks out like a sore thumb here. If Denver can't make the WCC, it might make sense to add Northern Colorado (their football goes to the WAC), followed by another school in the Central Time Zone, but west of the Mississippi River.

(05-02-2021 10:31 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Unless if their's a cooperative reorganization with the Summit or Horizon, a split won't happen. I also can't see Youngstown State joining an all-sports league like that, unless of there is a serious commitment to divisional play across all sports.

Summit :
Denver, Kansas City, Oral Roberts, Omaha, Drake, St. Thomas, Bradley, Loyola-Chicago, Evansville, Valparaiso

Denver sticks out like a sore thumb here. If Denver can't make the WCC, it might make sense to add Northern Colorado (their football goes to the WAC), followed by another school in the Central Time Zone, but west of the Mississippi River.

Would never happen. Zero incentive for Bradley, Loyola, Drake, Evansville, or Valparaiso, as all 5 would be worsening their situation.

Ditto the 5 publics breaking off for worse basketball, more travel, & less rivalries.

Here's the update.

Got emails to show the MVC reached out to Texas-Arlington. Reached out to the school and the conference and nobody denied it.

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/conference...and-state/

I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

Be interesting if UTA goes. The Sun Belt could sit back at 11 OLY. Don't know if there would be any appetite for adding a FB 11th, getting OLY back to 12, and utilizing the AAC waiver for an 11 team & CCG. I also don't think a 12th nonFB member would be added either.

Pretty funny how many times emails come out in FOIAs where university presidents don’t know the difference between things like “your” and “you’re”.

A public like NKU seems far likelier than Cleveland St and especially APSU. Not only is NKU a much better candidate than APSU (and one who was publicly unhappy with the HL), it’s located next to Cincinnati whereas Clarksville is 50 miles from Nashville.

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

Hey Matt, have you FOIAed Little Rock for any conference realignment chatted? OVC, MVC, ASUN?

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.