(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

The divide by 10 thing is a good point, at best each school is looking at a handful of potential students. Maybe a school could work out some specific marketing strategy with Texas students paired with the games, but that feels like a reach, and a lot of effort. You could do the same with an OOC game or something.

For W&M we at least have decent alumni contingencies/associations in each of those cities, so even if it doesn't help a ton for recruiting we can hold events with the alumni associations, but I don't know how many MVC schools have big Dallas alumni bases.

It seems crazy to me in the post COVID area but college presidents may have a different perspective

(05-02-2021 10:03 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Hey Matt, have you FOIAed Little Rock for any conference realignment chatted? OVC, MVC, ASUN?

I haven't, actually. Arkansas requires in-state residency before you can file any open records requests, and that's the only state where I don't have any burner email options. Once I get some Arkansas email options, I have plenty of requests I'd want to send out.

The ASUN provides another in-state school (UCA) for LR, and more basketball focused schools like Jacksonville, North Fla, FGCU, and Bellarmine. Buy they have 12 OLY schools already.

I just can't imagine LR on the move.

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

This.

I'm not saying UTA should join the MVC based on this, but this is what out-of-market schools should be doing when playing a road game in a big market.

^^And to be fair, this is what schools are talking about when they consider expanding to have access to a new market. The plan isn't to hope that Evansville playing a handful of athletic contests a year in DFW means they'll get Texas applicants. It's the hope that over time, those contests, plus seeing Evansville branding in Texas newspapers, on Texas regional cable, on Texas message boards, etc...will make it a little more likely that a Texas teenager opens the mail that Evansville sends him, or goes to a recruitment event that Evansville hosts, and then develops a connection to the school based on all the other stuff the school provides. The goal is simply to raise awareness enough to build the connection another way.

Remember...there are a LOT of families in DFW (and Denver, Phoenix, Nashville, etc) that didn't grow up there, but moved from the Midwest. A MVC school only needs to reach a handful of those potential targets to break even.

I'm not saying it will work either. But it's not really accurate to say that the plan is to hope that some UT-A fan who makes a roadtrip to Indiana State is going to fall in love with the place and enroll.

(05-02-2021 09:20 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Here's the update.

Got emails to show the MVC reached out to Texas-Arlington. Reached out to the school and the conference and nobody denied it.

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/conference...and-state/

Excellent job, Matt. Well reported and nicely written. Strong.

Keep up the fine work and keep posting on this board, please. I appreciate your efforts.

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

(05-03-2021 09:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

Consider it this way: you have a bunch of schools who's students primarily come from the Midwest. In particular, they come from Chicagoland, the St. Louis area, and Indianapolis. You're a university president, and you know that there's going to be a fairly sharp drop in the number of high school graduates in 2026. On top of that, 2 of your 3 main sources of students (Chicago and St. Louis) are actually declining in population. And on top of that, the entire state of Illinois is actually declining in population. Given these demographic trends, what do you do?

You don't need to hire McKinsey to realize that you need a foothold in the sun belt.

(05-03-2021 09:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

I'm not sold that any conference alignment has a serious impact on enrollment outside of the P5 and Ivy League. Kids(potential students) rarely read newspapers or watch the local news to know that most of these games even take place. Especially when there are bigger names nearby (Cowboys, Rangers, Mavs, TCU, SMU...) that soak up all the airtime and pages.

(05-03-2021 09:22 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

Consider it this way: you have a bunch of schools who's students primarily come from the Midwest. In particular, they come from Chicagoland, the St. Louis area, and Indianapolis. You're a university president, and you know that there's going to be a fairly sharp drop in the number of high school graduates in 2026. On top of that, 2 of your 3 main sources of students (Chicago and St. Louis) are actually declining in population. And on top of that, the entire state of Illinois is actually declining in population. Given these demographic trends, what do you do?

You don't need to hire McKinsey to realize that you need a foothold in the sun belt.

No doubt, and especially with a declining birth rate a lot of colleges are going to be in a pickle. A handful have closed in recent years, or merged/got bought out, and I imagine the trend will only get worse.

I don't think playing games at UTA is really going to help these schools recruit kids from Texas, but university administrators know more than I do. I wonder what it would look like if one of the schools crunched the numbers what the number of students from Des Moines,Chicago or Evansville looks like vs the number of students from Indianapolis, Milwaukee, or Kansas City (relative to their cities population). Would be a decent way to see if playing basketball games in those cities help with recruiting (though there's obviously a ton of other factors that play into it that any such study would be imperfect).

At the end of the day, adding UTA to the MVC offers only some slight drawbacks (one more school getting part of the conference payout, increased travel time, bringing down the conference RPI), but I do see the potential upside.

(05-03-2021 09:22 AM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

Consider it this way: you have a bunch of schools who's students primarily come from the Midwest. In particular, they come from Chicagoland, the St. Louis area, and Indianapolis. You're a university president, and you know that there's going to be a fairly sharp drop in the number of high school graduates in 2026. On top of that, 2 of your 3 main sources of students (Chicago and St. Louis) are actually declining in population. And on top of that, the entire state of Illinois is actually declining in population. Given these demographic trends, what do you do?

You don't need to hire McKinsey to realize that you need a foothold in the sun belt.

St Louis metro increased in population from 2010 by 0.56%. Chicago metro decreased by 0.03%, which amounts to 2500 people less out of 9.45 million. Indianapolis metro increased by 9.89%.

(05-03-2021 10:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  St Louis metro increased in population from 2010 by 0.56%. Chicago metro decreased by 0.03%, which amounts to 2500 people less out of 9.45 million. Indianapolis metro increased by 9.89%.

You're right - I cheated by using the population of the City of St. Louis instead of the metro area.

Regardless, in the near- to mid-term the demographics don't look good, and in the long-term, the demographics look bad.

(05-03-2021 09:22 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(05-03-2021 09:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 10:13 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-02-2021 09:32 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm always sorta curious about the idea that playing road basketball games helps expand your student body, or if there's any evidence to it. UTA averaged about 1,800 fans per game in 2019, I can't imagine they get that much press in local papers either. How much does SIU or Drake or whoever playing a game there really help their general recruiting?

I know I've seen similar arguments for the CAA, where we get games @ Boston, Philly, New York/Ling Island, but I'm never completely sold.

It seems like university-presidents-outsmarting-themselves syndrome. It pays itself off at the P5/Big East level, plus AAC. It works below that if you’re regional.

But whatever DFW students watching an 1800 attendance game in Arlington say “hey, I want to move up north and attend a Missouri Valley school”, you have to divide by 10. So even if it convinces 10 DFW HS tuition-paying students, you’re left with 1 per school on average.

I could see an attraction to Loyola (Chicago) or Missouri St (driveable), maybe Drake (Des Moines) — but the number of DFW HS students who convince themselves to move to Valparaiso, Terre Haute, Evansville, Peoria, Blo-No, Carbondale, or Frostbite Falls due to MVC schools playing once a year in an 1800 attendance game in Arlington could probably be counted on one hand.

My wife went to Weber State. When Weber came to UTA a few years ago to play basketball, they used the event to host a significant pre-game event, and possibly post-game, if I remember. My wife and Weber alumni from all over DFW were invited. They made it a big deal. What I am saying is that Weber didn't sit back and do nothing and expect to reap the publicity benefits from game coverage in the Fort Wort Star-Telegram. They used the game as a tool. This is what you do, at least from time-to-time, if you are out-of state and want to reach your alumni and prospective students. The game and your team give you something around which to build to make your presence known.

Yeah, that makes enough sense to me, I'm just not sold it would make UTA that attractive to the MVC. It seems like the type of thing that can be accomplished with OOC games, as Weber did. You're going to have to travel out to Texas for all sports, when you might only be able to get an alumni group out for a men's basketball game (maybe women's basketball and baseball). It also could become less of a special event when it's an every year thing.

I'm not sold that any conference alignment has a serious impact on enrollment outside of the P5 and Ivy League. Kids(potential students) rarely read newspapers or watch the local news to know that most of these games even take place. Especially when there are bigger names nearby (Cowboys, Rangers, Mavs, TCU, SMU...) that soak up all the airtime and pages.

Even at the P5 level, are we sure the impact is anything more than marginal?

Look at the state breakdown of Mizzou students in 2020:
https://enrollment.missouri.edu/wp-conte...file-1.pdf

Quote:1. Missouri 20,573
2. Illinois 4,161
3. Texas 609
4. Kansas 530
5. California 421
6. Minnesota 289
7. Colorado 260
8. Arkansas 210
9. Iowa 197
10. Tennessee 184

8 years in, the SEC move had made minimal impact in providing new student pipelines into the university. Distant states like California, Minnesota, & Colorado exceed every state Mizzou acquired in the SEC switch, including bordering Arkansas. Another bordering SEC state - Kentucky - doesn't hit the top-10. No Georgia, Florida, or Alabama.

Mizzou has more Minnesota students than Tennessee students despite Tennessee exceeding Minnesota in population by 1.5 million and both Memphis and Nashville being closer to Columbia than MSP. Minnesota has 1.2 million more population than Kentucky, but Louisville and Lexington are closer to Columbia than MSP -- and Mizzou's student population from Minnesota appears to roughly double their student population from Kentucky (as Kentucky didn't make the list).

If the SEC move is having little-to-no impact in pipelines to Mizzou, how would MVC schools playing 1 MBB game a year with a pregame alumni event in Arlington in front of 1800 attendants with no media attention break even in new tuition-paying students - specifically to the non-Chicago/Springfield/Des Moines locations?

I'm seeing wishful thinking that isn't backed up by data at the non-FB mid-major level.

I found the 2009 report for comparison.

https://enrollment.missouri.edu/wp-conte...l-2009.pdf

1. Missouri - 23,160
2. Illinois - 2,511
3. Texas - 727
4. Kansas - 468
5. California - 217
6. Iowa - 203
7. Colorado - 165
8. Minnesota - 158
9. Nebraska - 150
10. Arkansas - 122

From 2009-2020, There is a slight decrease in Texas enrollment, but a slight increase in Colorado, Kansas and Iowa, three states Mizzou plays fewer games in while being in the SEC (I know they have Texas A&M in the SEC).

There is a slight increase in Arkasnas and Tennessee students, so *maybe* there's something there, but it seems like the general trend for Mizzou was an increase in OOS students, so I don't think we should really come to any grand conclusions.

There is also a huge increase in Illinois students, and a small bump in Minnesota and California, which is almost certainly unrelated to anything sports related.

Overall, it does not really seem like the SEC vs Big 12 switch made a huge impact.

Schools use road trips as marketing events. Alumni association will put on an event before the game and invite alums, as well as, potential students to the game. Is Drake playing in Arlington/Dallas an opportunity to improve alumni relations and/or increase the likelihood of a potential student attending the University? Sure. It may increase the quality of student, since they will have opportunity to interact with their targets. However, is it going to increase enrollment per se? No. I don't think most schools view road trips as a way to increase enrollment, the exception being a school that takes a jump up from a regional to a more nationally known conference. I would image Butler and Creighton viewed joining the BE as an opportunity to increase their name recognition and attract more students from the large eastern media markets.

Drake has a lot of alums in the Dallas area, so it would be a great addition from that perspective. Drake also has a number of alums from NY (as all midwest privates do), Milwaukee, Kansas City, St. Louis and Chicago. So all those cities make sense for them. It also probably makes sense for a Loyola, Valpo, etc. to want to add a school from one of those cites. On the flip side, I don't think all those cities make sense for Missouri St, Illinois State or Southern Illinois. Those schools recruit more regionally. Adding another school from Chicago or adding one from St. Louis or Kansas City makes a ton of sense, but Milwaukee isn't a high priority target area for MSU.

(05-03-2021 11:12 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Schools use road trips as marketing events. Alumni association will put on an event before the game and invite alums, as well as, potential students to the game. Is Drake playing in Arlington/Dallas an opportunity to improve alumni relations and/or increase the likelihood of a potential student attending the University? Sure. It may increase the quality of student, since they will have opportunity to interact with their targets. However, is it going to increase enrollment per se? No. I don't think most schools view road trips as a way to increase enrollment, the exception being a school that takes a jump up from a regional to a more nationally known conference. I would image Butler and Creighton viewed joining the BE as an opportunity to increase their name recognition and attract more students from the large eastern media markets.

Drake has a lot of alums in the Dallas area, so it would be a great addition from that perspective. Drake also has a number of alums from NY (as all midwest privates do), Milwaukee, Kansas City, St. Louis and Chicago. So all those cities make sense for them. It also probably makes sense for a Loyola, Valpo, etc. to want to add a school from one of those cites. On the flip side, I don't think all those cities make sense for Missouri St, Illinois State or Southern Illinois. Those schools recruit more regionally. Adding another school from Chicago or adding one from St. Louis or Kansas City makes a ton of sense, but Milwaukee isn't a high priority target area for MSU.

You're probably right, but I've seen fans try to argue that it does as a way of rationalizing conference movement even when it might not seem like a great move at first.

I think what you have is two groups in MVC. The privates who are concern for basketball and the public wants to keep a dominent football conference. MVC is not the same since a lot of their big name members left. As the MVFC is concern? I think they would fit as number 3 in a G6 league in FBS behind AAC and MWC. They would get more money as an all sports conference than where they are at. The Dakota schools are fairly strong in football and mren's basketball. Adding Murray State would kill the MVC basketball schools. A lot of those private schools are not pulling their weight in men's basketball.

Mizzou doesn't need to attract other students like these other schools do. We seem to agree that road games can be a starting point for attracting new students, they're not the main event. Hence, they haven't pushed their advantage like other schools presumably would.

(05-03-2021 07:06 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  Mizzou doesn't need to attract other students like these other schools do. We seem to agree that road games can be a starting point for attracting new students, they're not the main event. Hence, they haven't pushed their advantage like other schools presumably would.

Mizzou made it an initiative these past few years to increase enrollment after experiencing a sharp decline. They have been working their tail ends off to increase enrollment since 2017 - they’ve increased first-time enrollment by 29% since 2017 (5,318 in 2020).



Google turns up alumni association events with sponsors at SEC road games, not unlike the Weber@UTA example earlier in the thread.

If a school sets a goal to increase first-time enrollment by 1200 in 3 years, it seems highly unlikely they wouldn’t push their advantage in the footprint of their conference. The more likely explanation is the conference had minimal impact in providing new general student pipelines.