The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-13-2021 01:13 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

A part of me wants to feel good about this text.

The other part of me thinks this would be more believable if his attorney hadn't released that poorly redacted text message from Luke Fickell on his client's behalf.

(04-13-2021 01:21 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 01:13 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

I hope he does wish UC basketball well. But the actions of his legal team last week speak otherwise. He is young enough that if stops the bs, settles, and pays his dues again another coaching job will be there.

Yep. Looks like a bit of damage control from Brannen.

Let us pretend Brannen was wildly successful and just accepted a job as the new coach at say Notre Dame or some P5. I bet almost everyone of the posters who want to cheat Brannen out of his contract terms would be posting "Makes sure he pays every penny to UC"!

(04-13-2021 01:30 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Let us pretend Brannen was wildly successful and just accepted a job as the new coach at say Notre Dame or some P5. I bet almost everyone of the posters who want to cheat Brannen out of his contract terms would be posting "Makes sure he pays every penny to UC"!

And if they don't actually have cause they'll end up doing just that. If the stuff we've heard from players regarding the medical staff having to stop practice for their safety is false and there is nothing else there, Brannen will get his money.

Let's see how it plays out.

(04-13-2021 01:37 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 01:30 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Let us pretend Brannen was wildly successful and just accepted a job as the new coach at say Notre Dame or some P5. I bet almost everyone of the posters who want to cheat Brannen out of his contract terms would be posting "Makes sure he pays every penny to UC"!

And if they don't actually have cause they'll end up doing just that. If the stuff we've heard from players regarding the medical staff having to stop practice for their safety is false and there is nothing else there, Brannen will get his money.

Let's see how it plays out.

Are we to believe that these rumors about Brannen inducing dehydration at practices is a training practice he picked up between year 1 and year 2?

Because we never heard anything resembling this type of practice during or after year 1.

(04-12-2021 04:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:19 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 09:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Brannen should heed caution to the wind on litigating this matter. The most UC has to lose is money-- they have plenty of that

You cost yourself your credibility right there...

Meh... the athletic department may have budgetary issues, but there are other revenue streams and collateral sources the university has its disposal. If at the end of the day they have to pay a judgment to John it will not break them at all.

Sure. They can sign the big contract with our new highly in demand basketball coach in the new permanent FB practice structure. Wait, the new coach is coming on the cheap and there are no plans for the practice structure? Well maybe they can sign it in the Monster Factory (anybody heard the latest on that fiasco? You'll love it!).

Sarcasm aside, we're cutting varsity sports already. The Athletic Department is clearly hurting financially and that started before this whole Brannen mess.

I'm not sure I understand the condescension towards the program. Our TV deal is nowhere close to competing with the big dogs. Our apparel deal is decent and we had effectively zero ticket sale revenue for a year from our two revenue sports. No **** they are hurting for money.

Cunningham had a decision to make whether to get rid of the dude that was clearly sinking our program or not and made the decision to cut bait. We will see what the ultimate effect of the lawsuit is, but from what Mars has shown so far, they don't have some magic arrow that is going to win the case for them. With how tight lip this AD is, I doubt there is some email around that is going to say that he's going to drum up a phony for cause firing. Best case scenario for next season with Brannen at the helm was 8 new players all from the horizon league and half of them transferring out mid-season because the guy is a jerk. Cunningham obviously didn't like that.

(04-13-2021 01:44 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 04:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:19 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 09:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Brannen should heed caution to the wind on litigating this matter. The most UC has to lose is money-- they have plenty of that

You cost yourself your credibility right there...

Meh... the athletic department may have budgetary issues, but there are other revenue streams and collateral sources the university has its disposal. If at the end of the day they have to pay a judgment to John it will not break them at all.

Sure. They can sign the big contract with our new highly in demand basketball coach in the new permanent FB practice structure. Wait, the new coach is coming on the cheap and there are no plans for the practice structure? Well maybe they can sign it in the Monster Factory (anybody heard the latest on that fiasco? You'll love it!).

Sarcasm aside, we're cutting varsity sports already. The Athletic Department is clearly hurting financially and that started before this whole Brannen mess.

I'm not sure I understand the condescension towards the program. Our TV deal is nowhere close to competing with the big dogs. Our apparel deal is decent and we had effectively zero ticket sale revenue for a year from our two revenue sports. No **** they are hurting for money.

I agree. I think you just made my case for why we can't afford to waste $5M on top of all that.

Quote:Cunningham had a decision to make whether to get rid of the dude that was clearly sinking our program or not and made the decision to cut bait. We will see what the ultimate effect of the lawsuit is, but from what Mars has shown so far, they don't have some magic arrow that is going to win the case for them. With how tight lip this AD is, I doubt there is some email around that is going to say that he's going to drum up a phony for cause firing. Best case scenario for next season with Brannen at the helm was 8 new players all from the horizon league and half of them transferring out mid-season because the guy is a jerk. Cunningham obviously didn't like that.

But I disagree with pretty much all the opinions you express here. Probably most notably: that's not the best-case scenario had the AD handled this appropriately and professionally.

(04-13-2021 02:24 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 01:44 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 04:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 10:19 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  You cost yourself your credibility right there...

Meh... the athletic department may have budgetary issues, but there are other revenue streams and collateral sources the university has its disposal. If at the end of the day they have to pay a judgment to John it will not break them at all.

Sure. They can sign the big contract with our new highly in demand basketball coach in the new permanent FB practice structure. Wait, the new coach is coming on the cheap and there are no plans for the practice structure? Well maybe they can sign it in the Monster Factory (anybody heard the latest on that fiasco? You'll love it!).

Sarcasm aside, we're cutting varsity sports already. The Athletic Department is clearly hurting financially and that started before this whole Brannen mess.

I'm not sure I understand the condescension towards the program. Our TV deal is nowhere close to competing with the big dogs. Our apparel deal is decent and we had effectively zero ticket sale revenue for a year from our two revenue sports. No **** they are hurting for money.

I agree. I think you just made my case for why we can't afford to waste $5M on top of all that.

Quote:Cunningham had a decision to make whether to get rid of the dude that was clearly sinking our program or not and made the decision to cut bait. We will see what the ultimate effect of the lawsuit is, but from what Mars has shown so far, they don't have some magic arrow that is going to win the case for them. With how tight lip this AD is, I doubt there is some email around that is going to say that he's going to drum up a phony for cause firing. Best case scenario for next season with Brannen at the helm was 8 new players all from the horizon league and half of them transferring out mid-season because the guy is a jerk. Cunningham obviously didn't like that.

But I disagree with pretty much all the opinions you express here. Probably most notably: that's not the best-case scenario had the AD handled this appropriately and professionally.

On one hand you have the guy leaking the text messages from a former coworker and his attorney running around trying to drum up support on social media and his wife criticizing players on social media. On top of half his team quitting in the span of the week. On the other hand, you have 3 public statements from the University saying that they were starting an investigation, they put him on leave and then that he was fired. Which side is the one acting unprofessionally? Brannen got fired and is trying to burn the house down on the way out.

(04-13-2021 02:34 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  On one hand you have the guy leaking the text messages from a former coworker and his attorney running around trying to drum up support on social media and his wife criticizing players on social media. On top of half his team quitting in the span of the week. On the other hand, you have 3 public statements from the University saying that they were starting an investigation, they put him on leave and then that he was fired. Which side is the one acting unprofessionally? Brannen got fired and is trying to burn the house down on the way out.

Yea that use of "professional" stuck out to me as well.

(04-13-2021 02:40 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 02:34 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  On one hand you have the guy leaking the text messages from a former coworker and his attorney running around trying to drum up support on social media and his wife criticizing players on social media. On top of half his team quitting in the span of the week. On the other hand, you have 3 public statements from the University saying that they were starting an investigation, they put him on leave and then that he was fired. Which side is the one acting unprofessionally? Brannen got fired and is trying to burn the house down on the way out.

Yea that use of "professional" stuck out to me as well.

Fair question. Among other things, it was a reference about the total lack of transparency from a public institution to both the coach and the public. The AD's failure to even discuss anything with the Coach for around a month after the season ended (reportedly hiding in his locked office) is one of the most unprofessional things I've ever heard. An "investigation" that never even interviewed the accused nor the one player who has gone on the record about player issues (and strongly defended the coach) The only thing transparent about the process is that it is clearly a sham attempt to avoid paid what is contractually due. Does that help with what I mean by "unprofessional"?

(04-13-2021 02:40 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 02:34 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  On one hand you have the guy leaking the text messages from a former coworker and his attorney running around trying to drum up support on social media and his wife criticizing players on social media. On top of half his team quitting in the span of the week. On the other hand, you have 3 public statements from the University saying that they were starting an investigation, they put him on leave and then that he was fired. Which side is the one acting unprofessionally? Brannen got fired and is trying to burn the house down on the way out.

Yea that use of "professional" stuck out to me as well.

I'm with you. I don't see how UC acted unprofessionally at this point. Keeping silent while Brannen's attorney took his case to Twitter seems like a professional way to handle things to me.

If Brannen didn't violate the terms of his contract, he'll probably get most or all of his money. If he did, he'll probably get less or none. Right now, none of us know what really happened, so everyone is getting worked up over mere speculation.

(04-13-2021 02:53 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Fair question. Among other things, it was a reference about the total lack of transparency from a public institution to both the coach and the public. The AD's failure to even discuss anything with the Coach for around a month after the season ended (reportedly hiding in his locked office) is one of the most unprofessional things I've ever heard. An "investigation" that never even interviewed the accused nor the one player who has gone on the record about player issues (and strongly defended the coach) The only thing transparent about the process is that it is clearly a sham attempt to avoid paid what is contractually due. Does that help with what I mean by "unprofessional"?

All of these bolded are claims of Mars. I haven't seen anyone credible confirm them. Also the second part regarding who was talked to in the investigation seems directly contradicted by the administrations releases. I think you're making a lot of assumptions on what is true or not true.

(04-13-2021 02:53 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 02:40 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 02:34 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  On one hand you have the guy leaking the text messages from a former coworker and his attorney running around trying to drum up support on social media and his wife criticizing players on social media. On top of half his team quitting in the span of the week. On the other hand, you have 3 public statements from the University saying that they were starting an investigation, they put him on leave and then that he was fired. Which side is the one acting unprofessionally? Brannen got fired and is trying to burn the house down on the way out.

Yea that use of "professional" stuck out to me as well.

Fair question. Among other things, it was a reference about the total lack of transparency from a public institution to both the coach and the public. The AD's failure to even discuss anything with the Coach for around a month after the season ended (reportedly hiding in his locked office) is one of the most unprofessional things I've ever heard. An "investigation" that never even interviewed the accused nor the one player who has gone on the record about player issues (and strongly defended the coach) The only thing transparent about the process is that it is clearly a sham attempt to avoid paid what is contractually due. Does that help with what I mean by "unprofessional"?

I agree with you Hawk. If you simply want to fire the guy, pay up. I really hope there was cause, and we haven't heard the whole story. If not, this is awful.

(04-13-2021 03:10 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 02:53 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Fair question. Among other things, it was a reference about the total lack of transparency from a public institution to both the coach and the public. The AD's failure to even discuss anything with the Coach for around a month after the season ended (reportedly hiding in his locked office) is one of the most unprofessional things I've ever heard. An "investigation" that never even interviewed the accused nor the one player who has gone on the record about player issues (and strongly defended the coach) The only thing transparent about the process is that it is clearly a sham attempt to avoid paid what is contractually due. Does that help with what I mean by "unprofessional"?

All of these bolded are claims of Mars. I haven't seen anyone credible confirm them. Also the second part regarding who was talked to in the investigation seems directly contradicted by the administrations releases. I think you're making a lot of assumptions on what is true or not true.

Have you seen anyone debunk anything from Mars? He's got a lot at risk if he's making up stuff that can easily be proven false. I'm very confident the Fickell text is real and I agree with what Luke said 100%. I don't think JB has been treated fairly and the process smells like BS. Has anyone credible confirmed the administration's typically vague releases? It's tough to debunk when they avoid all the details. Sure the Admin says they talked to JB/Mars. Mars concurs and says it happened after about a month of silence and was mere hours before he received a letter of termination iirc. I didn't see where the Admin claims they interviewed DeJulius - did I miss that? Sure there are assumptions involved and assessments of credibility - that's inherent in nearly any situation and no matter what side one takes.

Now if you want to get philosophical...I was indifferent on Carpenter and supportive but not completely sold on Brannen when the season ended so this stuff isn't personal. It's just how I interpret the info out there, same as all of us - including yourself. Sometimes I don't have enough info to even formulate an opinion that I'm comfortable with but in this case, I feel I do. I don't claim it's infallible, but I think it is valid based upon what is out there. If or as new info comes out my opinions may well evolve - again same as yours. But my expectations are UC is going to try to avoid public accountability at all costs and eventually just pay JB the $5M when they are satisfied people have largely forgotten about it. Don't like his coaching? Fine, fire him and pay him the money. I might not agree but I can generally live with that. However, I expect more and better than a blatant attempt to ruin a man's reputation so you don't have to live up to your contract.

When litigation is pending why would anyone with a connection to UC get in a Twitter war with a plaintiff’s attorney? That would properly earn you a quick call from the general counsel’s office to find out what the **** you were thinking.

(04-13-2021 05:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  When litigation is pending why would anyone with a connection to UC get in a Twitter war with a plaintiff’s attorney? That would properly earn you a quick call from the general counsel’s office to find out what the **** you were thinking.

This

Some people, herein think a jury would favor UC because Brannen wants his $5.5 large. I tend to disagree. I think most common folks have been screwed over by big business and UC will be painted as big business with it's massive employee size and an endowment of $1,300,000,000.00

(04-13-2021 05:56 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Some people, herein think a jury would favor UC because Brannen wants his $5.5 large. I tend to disagree. I think most common folks have been screwed over by big business and UC will be painted as big business with it's massive employee size and an endowment of $1,300,000,000.00

Or we don't know what a jury would do because there isn't a ton of information. Uc has stayed quiet. Mars has thrown out some ancillary spin. Hard to say what a jury would do this early.

(04-13-2021 05:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  When litigation is pending why would anyone with a connection to UC get in a Twitter war with a plaintiff’s attorney? That would properly earn you a quick call from the general counsel’s office to find out what the **** you were thinking.

Agreed. That would be a big faux pas. It would be like posting a straw man argument on a message board and thinking you were actually making a good point or that people were falling for it.
Know what I mean?

(04-13-2021 05:56 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Some people, herein think a jury would favor UC because Brannen wants his $5.5 large. I tend to disagree. I think most common folks have been screwed over by big business and UC will be painted as big business with it's massive employee size and an endowment of $1,300,000,000.00

Let me do voir dire for UC...stack it with mothers and a representative mix of minorities for Hamilton County and when those players testify how the guy making $1.5 million per year treated them and how UC stepped in to protect kids, many of who are minorities...game set match...that jury will be looking at Brannen like he is Big Tobacco.

Won’t ever get to that point. Win or lose UC’s witnesses would ensure he may never coach in college again.