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stever20 Offline
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Post: #161
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
Baseball really needs to do what football does with the Walter Payton Man of the Year award. Roberto Clemente should be it. Need to promote it more- and have for the winner of the award like the NFL a uniform patch they get to wear for the rest of their career.
02-06-2021 11:14 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #162
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-06-2021 07:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2021 12:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The player's union is far too powerful. There will never be anything resembling a true salary cap.

The MLBPA might be too suspicious of a salary cap. What they really need is a salary floor to stop teams like the Pirates. The NBA's salary floor, for example, requires every team to spend at least 90% of the cap number on salaries. The penalty for not spending at least that much is that they have to do it anyway -- a team that is below 90% of the cap has to distribute the difference between the salary floor and the team payroll to the players on their roster.

Example for MLB: The MLB luxury tax threshold for 2021 is $210 million. Let's say there was a salary cap that, like the NBA's, is roughly 80% of the luxury tax line. That would make MLB's hypothetical 2021 cap number $168 million. The salary floor would be 90% of that cap number, $151.2 million. That would be an enormous benefit for the players currently on low-payroll MLB teams. There might be half a dozen MLB teams whose 2021 payroll will be half that amount or less.

(02-06-2021 12:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The only way to incentivize any sort of competitive balance is to tie the revenue to winning. You win games, you get a bigger share of the TV revenue. Now obviously the teams with better inherent resources will have the opportunity to win more, but MLB will never create anything more than inducements to spend less. It won't happen.

Yes, TV revenue should be tied to winning. The English Premier League has a graduated revenue distribution that gives the most TV money to the team that wins the league and each team down the table gets a little less than the team right above them. For MLB, I would distribute half the national TV money evenly, and distribute the other half according to regular season wins, with each playoff team getting a bonus TV revenue share that gets larger the farther they advance in the postseason.

I think the salary floor is an interesting concept. That could work although I wouldn't use percentages as high as 90% or 80%. I think we have to remember that the current system in place doesn't adequately reward a team for taking a risk on FAs. Depending on the situation, you can lose draft picks just for signing someone. That's going to have a detrimental affect on the FA market because some teams have less resources to gamble with. They will bet on their own scouts and coaches to find cheap talent as opposed to going out and spending for it.

I would set the luxury tax at $200 million. It's a nice even number that's easy to divide by. If we set the luxury tax there then I would say the floor needs to be $75 million. The small market teams can afford that without dramatically altering their business model. I say that simply because some markets are inherently richer/larger than others so I think it's fair to account for that. Until we have a media contract that shares all TV revenue then we have to also consider some local contracts are far more rewarding than others.

With that said, there should be incentives to reach higher plateaus. Let's say if you spend at least $100 million then you get extra draft picks. If you spend $150 million then you are allowed greater flexibility with roster management...more call-ups without affecting your ownership of a player's contract for example.

If you can get more clubs into that $100-$200 million range then that would do a lot for competitive imbalance and the players would make more money in the process.

I would definitely tie national TV revenue to winning in the manner you stated. The EPL has a good formula although I would say that if a team surpasses the luxury tax then they forgo the playoff bonuses. They're getting plenty of reward for that anyway so they don't really need it.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what the current penalty is for surpassing the luxury tax. I would say that it should be tied to charity. You pass the $200 million mark and you have to match dollar for dollar to a charity(ies) somewhere in your home market. Win/win for everyone.
02-07-2021 06:00 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #163
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-07-2021 06:00 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-06-2021 07:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2021 12:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The player's union is far too powerful. There will never be anything resembling a true salary cap.

The MLBPA might be too suspicious of a salary cap. What they really need is a salary floor to stop teams like the Pirates. The NBA's salary floor, for example, requires every team to spend at least 90% of the cap number on salaries. The penalty for not spending at least that much is that they have to do it anyway -- a team that is below 90% of the cap has to distribute the difference between the salary floor and the team payroll to the players on their roster.

Example for MLB: The MLB luxury tax threshold for 2021 is $210 million. Let's say there was a salary cap that, like the NBA's, is roughly 80% of the luxury tax line. That would make MLB's hypothetical 2021 cap number $168 million. The salary floor would be 90% of that cap number, $151.2 million. That would be an enormous benefit for the players currently on low-payroll MLB teams. There might be half a dozen MLB teams whose 2021 payroll will be half that amount or less.

(02-06-2021 12:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The only way to incentivize any sort of competitive balance is to tie the revenue to winning. You win games, you get a bigger share of the TV revenue. Now obviously the teams with better inherent resources will have the opportunity to win more, but MLB will never create anything more than inducements to spend less. It won't happen.

Yes, TV revenue should be tied to winning. The English Premier League has a graduated revenue distribution that gives the most TV money to the team that wins the league and each team down the table gets a little less than the team right above them. For MLB, I would distribute half the national TV money evenly, and distribute the other half according to regular season wins, with each playoff team getting a bonus TV revenue share that gets larger the farther they advance in the postseason.

I think the salary floor is an interesting concept. That could work although I wouldn't use percentages as high as 90% or 80%. I think we have to remember that the current system in place doesn't adequately reward a team for taking a risk on FAs. Depending on the situation, you can lose draft picks just for signing someone. That's going to have a detrimental affect on the FA market because some teams have less resources to gamble with. They will bet on their own scouts and coaches to find cheap talent as opposed to going out and spending for it.

I would set the luxury tax at $200 million. It's a nice even number that's easy to divide by. If we set the luxury tax there then I would say the floor needs to be $75 million. The small market teams can afford that without dramatically altering their business model. I say that simply because some markets are inherently richer/larger than others so I think it's fair to account for that. Until we have a media contract that shares all TV revenue then we have to also consider some local contracts are far more rewarding than others.

With that said, there should be incentives to reach higher plateaus. Let's say if you spend at least $100 million then you get extra draft picks. If you spend $150 million then you are allowed greater flexibility with roster management...more call-ups without affecting your ownership of a player's contract for example.

If you can get more clubs into that $100-$200 million range then that would do a lot for competitive imbalance and the players would make more money in the process.

I would definitely tie national TV revenue to winning in the manner you stated. The EPL has a good formula although I would say that if a team surpasses the luxury tax then they forgo the playoff bonuses. They're getting plenty of reward for that anyway so they don't really need it.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what the current penalty is for surpassing the luxury tax. I would say that it should be tied to charity. You pass the $200 million mark and you have to match dollar for dollar to a charity(ies) somewhere in your home market. Win/win for everyone.

no chance the cap is 200 million and the floor only 75 million. When the current cap is 210 million....

It's more going to be something bare minimum where the cap is 220 million and the floor is at least 100 million. These cheap ass teams are going to have to spend money. Don't like it, sell the ******* franchise. I mean there are 3 teams that are spending less than Bauer. The Bauer part isn't the problem, it's the other 3 teams.
02-07-2021 11:16 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #164
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.
02-08-2021 10:20 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #165
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-08-2021 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.

How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.
02-08-2021 01:12 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #166
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-08-2021 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.

How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.

Yeah 3 and then in a lot of ways Buehler is just as valuable.

I told someone on another board- I think we're more likely to see DH in NL in 2021 than we are to see pitchers batting in 2022.
02-08-2021 01:30 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #167
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
going back long term where brookes was right- he wasn't right short term, but long term, seems like he's been spot on with Ohtani.

Saw Angels did 2/8.5m deal for him to avoid arbitration.

have a feeling if the pitching doesn't work this time, that's the end of us seeing him as a pitcher. Maybe shift more to an OF? Just like Ankiel?
02-08-2021 04:18 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #168
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
Unfortunately, 7-inning games in doubleheaders and extra innings beginning with a runner on 2nd base will be back in 2021.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/3086...ond-extras
02-08-2021 11:05 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #169
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
That's too bad because I HATE those rules. They're designed to appeal to young fans with no attention span.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2021 11:59 AM by Erictelevision.)
02-09-2021 12:10 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #170
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
I don't think teams enjoy those extra inning marathons at all....

Especially now with the pitching rules back to how they used to be where if a pitcher goes on the injured list it's 15 days. Teams can't abuse it like they did the 10 day list where it was just a floating spot basically.
02-09-2021 12:21 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #171
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
saw Buehler settled arbitration 2 years 8 million -but he's got it where if he makes 14,16,18,20,24,28 starts- he gets 500k more for next years salary. And a Cy Young incentive which you can see.

It's amazing how arbitration eligible pitchers make so much less than the batters (but then when they get older it's much more equal). Bellinger made 11.6 million last year. Soto 8.5 million this year. But Buehler only making like 2.75 million this year. Remarkable.
02-11-2021 01:11 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #172
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
how about this remarkable graphic:

02-13-2021 02:48 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #173
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
It's great that these three players are under 25 and extremely good, but the only thing those statistics show is that they are close to the median age of Baseball America's top 100 players.
02-13-2021 03:33 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #174
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
so Turner back with the Dodgers.
02-13-2021 11:01 PM
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Post: #175
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-08-2021 04:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  going back long term where brookes was right

04-jawdrop02-13-banana

Quote:- he wasn't right short term, but long term, seems like he's been spot on with Ohtani.

My prediction assumed it'd be too hard to do well at both because of the time and energy needed to excel at just one of those skills, but this seems more a result of injury. The guy clearly has the talent to do both.

Quote:have a feeling if the pitching doesn't work this time, that's the end of us seeing him as a pitcher. Maybe shift more to an OF? Just like Ankiel?

Angels are desperate for pitching. I suspect health will force their hand but if they really feel like they have to pick one thing, and it would work, it ought to be pitching.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2021 01:12 PM by Brookes Owl.)
02-15-2021 01:09 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #176
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-13-2021 11:01 PM)stever20 Wrote:  so Turner back with the Dodgers.

I think most of us assumed this was always going to be the outcome but the longer it took, the more nervous I became. You have to worry a little about age and his defense is definitely not what it was, but this feels like a good deal. Even more so if we end up with a NL DH.
02-15-2021 01:12 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #177
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-08-2021 01:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.

How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.

Yeah 3 and then in a lot of ways Buehler is just as valuable.

I told someone on another board- I think we're more likely to see DH in NL in 2021 than we are to see pitchers batting in 2022.

It sucks, but universal DH was always going to be the future. I disagree with Wedge though, if your the owners I don't think you should just give it away, but I don't know what concession you could trade for it.
02-16-2021 10:45 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #178
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-16-2021 10:45 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.

How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.

Yeah 3 and then in a lot of ways Buehler is just as valuable.

I told someone on another board- I think we're more likely to see DH in NL in 2021 than we are to see pitchers batting in 2022.

It sucks, but universal DH was always going to be the future. I disagree with Wedge though, if your the owners I don't think you should just give it away, but I don't know what concession you could trade for it.

The problem is the owners want it pretty much just as much as the players.

Think it's going to be really interesting to see here in the next few weeks if MLB goes ahead and does the DH for free. The time to watch would be in spring training with pitchers starting to bat (first 2 weeks or so they don't).
02-16-2021 10:49 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #179
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-16-2021 10:49 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:45 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 10:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  saw this column https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_...d-playoffs

But increasingly, teams have come to view the injuries incurred by pitchers while hitting or running the bases as a stupid waste of assets, in the same way the lords of the sport came to view catcher-collision injuries as a colossal waste of resources.

MLB has been trying to trade the universal DH to the union in return for expanded playoffs, but the MLBPA has viewed that proposal as being of relatively little value. The union could look, instead, for some kind of financial cut of postseason run in return for expanded playoffs.

How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.

Yeah 3 and then in a lot of ways Buehler is just as valuable.

I told someone on another board- I think we're more likely to see DH in NL in 2021 than we are to see pitchers batting in 2022.

It sucks, but universal DH was always going to be the future. I disagree with Wedge though, if your the owners I don't think you should just give it away, but I don't know what concession you could trade for it.

The problem is the owners want it pretty much just as much as the players.

Think it's going to be really interesting to see here in the next few weeks if MLB goes ahead and does the DH for free. The time to watch would be in spring training with pitchers starting to bat (first 2 weeks or so they don't).

If that is case then you're correct. But that begs the question of why it's taken so long to implement the DH in the NL? The owners desire to keep pitchers off the bases didn't come up in 2020.
02-16-2021 04:08 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #180
RE: MLB 2020/21 Hot Stove Thread
(02-16-2021 04:08 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:49 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-16-2021 10:45 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2021 01:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  How many Dodgers starters will be making over $20 million in 2021? At least 3, right? Of course you don't want those guys to pull a hamstring running out a ground ball, or get injured by an HBP, or whatever. Even teams that don't spend like the Dodgers don't want to lose a starter, in fact it's more critical for any NL team that doesn't have much depth.

The MLBPA is right about the DH. It's more valuable to management than to 99% of the players in the union, so let management just make it universal and don't make concessions in exchange.

Yeah 3 and then in a lot of ways Buehler is just as valuable.

I told someone on another board- I think we're more likely to see DH in NL in 2021 than we are to see pitchers batting in 2022.

It sucks, but universal DH was always going to be the future. I disagree with Wedge though, if your the owners I don't think you should just give it away, but I don't know what concession you could trade for it.

The problem is the owners want it pretty much just as much as the players.

Think it's going to be really interesting to see here in the next few weeks if MLB goes ahead and does the DH for free. The time to watch would be in spring training with pitchers starting to bat (first 2 weeks or so they don't).

If that is case then you're correct. But that begs the question of why it's taken so long to implement the DH in the NL? The owners desire to keep pitchers off the bases didn't come up in 2020.

I think it's been there for a while and it was coming up in the CBA in 2021. The virus moved things up a bit.

I just think the owners will look at it- dh in 2020 and most likely in 2022. How smart is it to have the pitchers bat in 21 where it's a good 18 months since they did any batting at all.
02-16-2021 04:25 PM
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