(01-21-2021 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 01:48 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:34 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:21 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Penny said today Nesbitt will play the 1 or 2 (whenever he plays).

Who knows what he brings...But 247 makes him sound like a solid player...

But high school stats are hard to come by.

Quote:A thick athlete with physical density. Plays a physical game for a wing. Quick on change of direction and has a burst. Overall is a good athlete. Extremely confident long range shooter off pass or the dribble. Could be high level shooter. Quality ball handler. Handles for his shot. Wired to score. Aggressive and disruptive defender. Rebounds his position well.

But I don't like the combination of those two statements together.

Extremely confident shooter but not yet a quality shooter...

He's streaky, like most players, but you won't be able to just back off and dare him to shoot like they do to ALO. Consider that he's the best player and primary ball handler. Forced some shots that he won't be allowed to do here. His eyes are always up looking for open teammates

Compare that description to Boogie and LQ, who were both lights out in high school. The service weren't saying you couldn't back off either of them. They were saying that they could light it up from anywhere on the court. D1 defense compared to high school has a murderous effect on 3 point shooting. Even when D1 players aren't great defenders, they are playing infinitely better defense to any high school or AAU game.

Not to mention the guy guarding them is almost always as tall or taller than them in college. Most of these guys are used to being several inches taller than their high school defender making shooting infinitely more easy.

Taller, quicker players, players that guard tighter, players that close quicker; all that stuff factors in. Sometimes it means having to get your shot off faster, which throws off the form you have used your whole life. Chris Crawford is an example of this. He shot 29.9% his first year, before making changes to his shot. He wasn't a high level recruit, but we saw that with Drew Barham.

Next up is John Camden. Being 6'8" helps, but he has a very low release on his shot.

(01-21-2021 02:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 01:48 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:34 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:21 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Who knows what he brings...But 247 makes him sound like a solid player...

But high school stats are hard to come by.


But I don't like the combination of those two statements together.

Extremely confident shooter but not yet a quality shooter...

He's streaky, like most players, but you won't be able to just back off and dare him to shoot like they do to ALO. Consider that he's the best player and primary ball handler. Forced some shots that he won't be allowed to do here. His eyes are always up looking for open teammates

Compare that description to Boogie and LQ, who were both lights out in high school. The service weren't saying you couldn't back off either of them. They were saying that they could light it up from anywhere on the court. D1 defense compared to high school has a murderous effect on 3 point shooting. Even when D1 players aren't great defenders, they are playing infinitely better defense to any high school or AAU game.

Not to mention the guy guarding them is almost always as tall or taller than them in college. Most of these guys are used to being several inches taller than their high school defender making shooting infinitely more easy.

Taller, quicker players, players that guard tighter, players that close quicker; all that stuff factors in. Sometimes it means having to get your shot off faster, which throws off the form you have used your whole life. Chris Crawford is an example of this. He shot 29.9% his first year, before making changes to his shot. He wasn't a high level recruit, but we saw that with Drew Barham.

Next up is John Camden. Being 6'8" helps, but he has a very low release on his shot.

One thing that I think will separate John from our other "shooters" is his stroke is extremely consistent. If you look at any of our shooters, Boogie, Lester, and even Nolley, no two shots of theirs ever look the same. Nolley's is the most consistent but both he and Lester they have a really bad habit of almost rotating their wrist with a weird flicking motion. That usually results in their hand not going straight at the goal. I think for both of them it relates back to what you referenced in them trying to get their shot off quickly. Boogie just seems to have a ton of movement throughout his shooting process.

(01-21-2021 03:12 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 02:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 01:53 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 01:48 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:34 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  He's streaky, like most players, but you won't be able to just back off and dare him to shoot like they do to ALO. Consider that he's the best player and primary ball handler. Forced some shots that he won't be allowed to do here. His eyes are always up looking for open teammates

Compare that description to Boogie and LQ, who were both lights out in high school. The service weren't saying you couldn't back off either of them. They were saying that they could light it up from anywhere on the court. D1 defense compared to high school has a murderous effect on 3 point shooting. Even when D1 players aren't great defenders, they are playing infinitely better defense to any high school or AAU game.

Not to mention the guy guarding them is almost always as tall or taller than them in college. Most of these guys are used to being several inches taller than their high school defender making shooting infinitely more easy.

Taller, quicker players, players that guard tighter, players that close quicker; all that stuff factors in. Sometimes it means having to get your shot off faster, which throws off the form you have used your whole life. Chris Crawford is an example of this. He shot 29.9% his first year, before making changes to his shot. He wasn't a high level recruit, but we saw that with Drew Barham.

Next up is John Camden. Being 6'8" helps, but he has a very low release on his shot.

One thing that I think will separate John from our other "shooters" is his stroke is extremely consistent. If you look at any of our shooters, Boogie, Lester, and even Nolley, no two shots of theirs ever look the same. Nolley's is the most consistent but both he and Lester they have a really bad habit of almost rotating their wrist with a weird flicking motion. That usually results in their hand not going straight at the goal. I think for both of them it relates back to what you referenced in them trying to get their shot off quickly. Boogie just seems to have a ton of movement throughout his shooting process.

From as long as I can remember, the two players that cleaned up their shot the most were Antonio Burks and Jeremy Hunt. When Burks arrived on campus, he pulled the ball back behind his head and had a high release. By the time he left, he had a quicker and lower release point. Hunt had a very slow release and a very high arc on his shot as a freshman. During his year off, he also shortened his stroke quite a bit, similar to what Burks did.

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 01:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:14 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 07:38 AM)TripleA Wrote:  So you're saying another player will make the team worse than it already is?

Sure.

There has been a thought that, if anything, Penny needs to tighten his lineup and find the 7 best guys to play together. Have five play about 30 mpg and the other two at 25 mpg.


Adding another guy further dilutes minutes, leads to MORE rotation changes and substitutions, and brings in another guy who has little to no established rapport with other players.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't shorten the rotation. I'm pretty sure Penny can count to 7 or 8. He's his own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm simply saying adding Nesbitt gives one more choice to make the 7 or 8. He's a bonus. He knows he might not get a lot of minutes right away. If he's good enough to do it, fine. If not, he sits to next year.

To me, the biggest issue is for Penny to commit to a shorter rotation, then actually do it. So far, he has 9 or 10 guys in by the first TV break.

But to say we shouldn't add Nesbitt b/c it gives Penny too many choices, that makes no sense.

IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 01:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:14 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Sure.

There has been a thought that, if anything, Penny needs to tighten his lineup and find the 7 best guys to play together. Have five play about 30 mpg and the other two at 25 mpg.


Adding another guy further dilutes minutes, leads to MORE rotation changes and substitutions, and brings in another guy who has little to no established rapport with other players.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't shorten the rotation. I'm pretty sure Penny can count to 7 or 8. He's his own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm simply saying adding Nesbitt gives one more choice to make the 7 or 8. He's a bonus. He knows he might not get a lot of minutes right away. If he's good enough to do it, fine. If not, he sits to next year.

To me, the biggest issue is for Penny to commit to a shorter rotation, then actually do it. So far, he has 9 or 10 guys in by the first TV break.

But to say we shouldn't add Nesbitt b/c it gives Penny too many choices, that makes no sense.

IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 01:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:14 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Sure.

There has been a thought that, if anything, Penny needs to tighten his lineup and find the 7 best guys to play together. Have five play about 30 mpg and the other two at 25 mpg.


Adding another guy further dilutes minutes, leads to MORE rotation changes and substitutions, and brings in another guy who has little to no established rapport with other players.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't shorten the rotation. I'm pretty sure Penny can count to 7 or 8. He's his own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm simply saying adding Nesbitt gives one more choice to make the 7 or 8. He's a bonus. He knows he might not get a lot of minutes right away. If he's good enough to do it, fine. If not, he sits to next year.

To me, the biggest issue is for Penny to commit to a shorter rotation, then actually do it. So far, he has 9 or 10 guys in by the first TV break.

But to say we shouldn't add Nesbitt b/c it gives Penny too many choices, that makes no sense.

IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

Seth? The little brother...Just kidding you.

Don't understand parents who do that though...But I guess it is better than naming all your kid George.

(01-21-2021 06:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 01:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't shorten the rotation. I'm pretty sure Penny can count to 7 or 8. He's his own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm simply saying adding Nesbitt gives one more choice to make the 7 or 8. He's a bonus. He knows he might not get a lot of minutes right away. If he's good enough to do it, fine. If not, he sits to next year.

To me, the biggest issue is for Penny to commit to a shorter rotation, then actually do it. So far, he has 9 or 10 guys in by the first TV break.

But to say we shouldn't add Nesbitt b/c it gives Penny too many choices, that makes no sense.

IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

Seth? The little brother...Just kidding you.

Don't understand parents who do that though...But I guess it is better than naming all your kid George.

Yeah, I thought it too much to ask for Steph...

so, is nesbit playing tonight?

(01-20-2021 10:47 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:41 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:35 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 09:25 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  You can bring him on the team, he could start and get significant minutes, and you can tighten up the rotation. These aren't mutually exclusive. None of that though solves what they do offensively when they get on the court. and that's the fundamental problem with this team in my opinion. Who you start and what the rotation looks like isn't it going to fix that.

If a top 60 high school level kid can walk onto the court 1/3rd of the way through the season and be better than the 11 guys who have been playing we might as well just stop the season.

You been watching the games? All that isn't to the point I was making imo so I don't even know why you quoted me LOL. My problem is with the offense, with a turnovers, with trying to overwhelm with Talent rather than with passing. It's all been proven not to work at least at this point. Penny needs to step back swallow his ego and bringing somebody Specializes in offense. Someone who has an established track record there. Memphis basketball is still a program that can do that and you'll have a lot of choices. Forget his friendships and bring somebody in. forget about who starts and start thinking about what matters.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't think one can fix stupid, and it seems most of our players just have incredibly low basketball IQ's.

LOL, replying to my own post...but....

The main issue with that is the way Penny is recruiting...he seems to go star chasing instead of team building. It's great to go out and get the best 5* and 4* players, but if those guys don't play off each other and compensate for each others weaknesses and complement each others strengths, then it can be a mess.

I think the problems start when the four stars think they’re five stars

(01-19-2021 01:08 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  The tv guy the other night said DJ was an elite athlete, lol.

Is this Brooks' big news?

I mean, it is big news. I can't recall ever having a midseason addition from the HS ranks. Unfortunately, I also agree that this will not solve most of our current problems.

DJJ reminds me of Wesley Witherspoon. Tall, athletic looking guys who do everything in the laziest way. Their natural talent brought them to big time D1 program, but they need some work to have success. I hope DJJ can get it together. Unfortunately, I see him as a future transfer (place blame on others, not work to improve).

I hope I'm wrong.

DJ just needs to calm down and let the game come to him. He’s trying too hard. Lots of outside pressure.

DJ was extremely soft with his shot. Trying to finesse too much.
But he had one of his best ever hustle games last night. Diving for loose balls and going hard after rebounds. And the shots were not forced, just too weak.
The one-hand lob dunk was sweet! He does have some athleticism he keeps hidden.
I thought it was a good game based upon his hustle. If he gets the shot going again, and keeps playing with that intensity, he will be a force by end of year.

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 01:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't shorten the rotation. I'm pretty sure Penny can count to 7 or 8. He's his own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm simply saying adding Nesbitt gives one more choice to make the 7 or 8. He's a bonus. He knows he might not get a lot of minutes right away. If he's good enough to do it, fine. If not, he sits to next year.

To me, the biggest issue is for Penny to commit to a shorter rotation, then actually do it. So far, he has 9 or 10 guys in by the first TV break.

But to say we shouldn't add Nesbitt b/c it gives Penny too many choices, that makes no sense.

IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

(01-22-2021 12:22 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 02:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  IF he commits to and actually shortens the roster.

My fear is that is that does not shorten the roster and simply adds an 11th guy into the rotation by only cutting out 2 or 3 minutes from a couple of players. That is essentially what he did when Williams became eligible.

I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

Your analysis was severely flawed though. You just looked at MPG for the entire year and compared that to Houston and stated both teams had 10 or 11 guys playing 10+mpg. But when you started looking at the trend of what was happening. Houston had clearly trimmed minutes significantly right around the start of conference play and was basically at just 8 players with 10+ mpg and Penny was not significantly trimming minutes and still had 10 players over 10+ minutes.

(01-22-2021 12:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:22 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-20-2021 04:48 PM)holyterror Wrote:  I'm not sure I see the upside in playing him this semester. He's not a game changer, not a LeBron or a Kobe. Let him get acclimated to the college regimen of food, weights, and workouts. Let him learn the system and be a step ahead next Fall. He'll graduate a little earlier and have his whole world ahead of him.

As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

Your analysis was severely flawed though. You just looked at MPG for the entire year and compared that to Houston and stated both teams had 10 or 11 guys playing 10+mpg. But when you started looking at the trend of what was happening. Houston had clearly trimmed minutes significantly right around the start of conference play and was basically at just 8 players with 10+ mpg and Penny was not significantly trimming minutes and still had 10 players over 10+ minutes.

Where is the trend?

Houston last game played 11 guys (not counting 2 more in mop-up duty), with 9 players over 10+ minutes.
Houston last weekend played 11 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.
And these games were without Caleb Mills - who would have been almost certain to get 10+ minutes.

The same time frame...Memphis last night played 11 guys, with 8 players over 10+ minutes.
Memphis last weekend played 10 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.

Yet the contention is Sampson is shortening the rotation, while Penny is not? And the contention is Penny plays too many guys?

The analysis was fine. It just didn't fit the narrative, so you came up with a theory that is not playing out true.

I have said all along. It's not playing too many guys and trying to "be buddies" - which is your narrative. It is the herky-jerky sub pattern that can be frustrating. Last night, 2nd half this settled down. Maybe a good sign.

(01-22-2021 01:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:22 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

Your analysis was severely flawed though. You just looked at MPG for the entire year and compared that to Houston and stated both teams had 10 or 11 guys playing 10+mpg. But when you started looking at the trend of what was happening. Houston had clearly trimmed minutes significantly right around the start of conference play and was basically at just 8 players with 10+ mpg and Penny was not significantly trimming minutes and still had 10 players over 10+ minutes.

Where is the trend?

Houston last game played 11 guys (not counting 2 more in mop-up duty), with 9 players over 10+ minutes. (Houston won by 27)
Houston last weekend played 11 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.
And these games were without Caleb Mills - who would have been almost certain to get 10+ minutes. (Houston won by 27)

The same time frame...Memphis last night played 11 guys, with 8 players over 10+ minutes.
Memphis last weekend played 10 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.

Yet the contention is Sampson is shortening the rotation, while Penny is not? And the contention is Penny plays too many guys?

The analysis was fine. It just didn't fit the narrative, so you came up with a theory that is not playing out true.

I have said all along. It's not playing too many guys and trying to "be buddies" - which is your narrative. It is the herky-jerky sub pattern that can be frustrating. Last night, 2nd half this settled down. Maybe a good sign.

I don't think anyone would have an issue with Penny playing 11 guys or 9 guys over ten minutes if we win by 27 points.

The game Houston Lost or played close his rotation is shorter.

Tulsa Loss
They played 6 guys more than 11 minutes. Top 6 guys played 170 minutes the rest played 30.

7 Point win over State
6 guys played over 10 minutes...Top 6 played 180 minutes

9 point win over UCF 7 guys played over 10 minutes...Top 6 played 163 Minutes

Penny almost always tightens his rotation in the 2nd half...But it is almost like he feels obligated to get guys minutes in the 1st half.

But it is also easier for Sampson...Because the dropoff from his first 6 to the rest of his squad is clear...Penny doesn't have it as easy...He has to determine who is giving him what on a given day.

If the choice was D. Rose or ALo I don't think ALo is getting 20 minutes. But the choice is ALo, Boogie or Baugh.

(01-22-2021 10:26 AM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  DJ just needs to calm down and let the game come to him. He’s trying too hard. Lots of outside pressure.

What kind of outside pressure?

(01-22-2021 01:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:22 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 05:46 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  As said, Penny is already playing too many guys. This will be another disaster to add a player that will share minutes & no doubt cause dissent among the team..... unless he's Seth Curry.

He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

Your analysis was severely flawed though. You just looked at MPG for the entire year and compared that to Houston and stated both teams had 10 or 11 guys playing 10+mpg. But when you started looking at the trend of what was happening. Houston had clearly trimmed minutes significantly right around the start of conference play and was basically at just 8 players with 10+ mpg and Penny was not significantly trimming minutes and still had 10 players over 10+ minutes.

Where is the trend?

Houston last game played 11 guys (not counting 2 more in mop-up duty), with 9 players over 10+ minutes.
Houston last weekend played 11 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.
And these games were without Caleb Mills - who would have been almost certain to get 10+ minutes.

The same time frame...Memphis last night played 11 guys, with 8 players over 10+ minutes.
Memphis last weekend played 10 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.

Yet the contention is Sampson is shortening the rotation, while Penny is not? And the contention is Penny plays too many guys?

The analysis was fine. It just didn't fit the narrative, so you came up with a theory that is not playing out true.

I have said all along. It's not playing too many guys and trying to "be buddies" - which is your narrative. It is the herky-jerky sub pattern that can be frustrating. Last night, 2nd half this settled down. Maybe a good sign.

Originally YOU CHOSE the metric of 10+ minutes per game... So now you are shifting the narrative to fit you desired outcome by stating total number of players played. Yes, most teams are going to play 10 or 11 guys total but 2 or 3 of those guys are only going to get a handful of minutes (sans blowouts).

Most conference games Memphis (most recent first)
- 11 total with 9 over 10 minutes - 20 point win
- 10 total with 9 over 10 minutes (note Baugh DNP) - 1 point loss
- 11 total with 10 over 10 minutes - 1 point win
- 10 total with 8 over 10 mintues (note Alo and Dandridge DNP) - 7 point loss
- 10 total with 10 over 10 minutes - 6 point win

Houston' most recent 6 conference games
- 13 played with 10 over 10 minutes - 27 point win
- 11 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 17 point win
- 11 played with 9 over 10 minutes - 21 point win
- 9 played with 6 over 10 minutes - 7 point win
- 9 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 14 point win
- 11 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 1 point loss

We are 9 to 10 every game at 10+ minutes. When Houston is not winning by 20+ they are never have more than 8 at 10+ minutes.

8 players with significant minutes is just kind of the standard most teams play by in normal (non blowout) games. Penny has not followed that model for whatever reason and many of us (me included) think that prevents players from getting into a rhythm which leads to poor offense often.

(01-22-2021 02:03 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 01:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2021 12:22 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 06:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  He isn't playing too many guys; that's complete nonsense. We have 8 players playing 18.6 minutes or more per game. Dandridge is playing 13 minutes and Jayden playing 12 minutes and both deserve to play. He can't shorten the bench because our players are wildly inconsistent from game to game.

He's really not. I did the analysis that showed this a few weeks back. It's the sub-patterns that are head-scratchers and sometimes frustrating.

But I thought this was much better last night. Yes, there were some early subs. A lot of that was due to the turnovers and poor shooting early - which is what everyone has been screaming for him to do.

He might have sat Cisse a little too long in the second half, when he was hot. It was simply to give him a break. But Malcolm was off (maybe a result from the Tulsa game), and the small lineup didn't work without A-lo.

But I saw progress on rotation last night.

Your analysis was severely flawed though. You just looked at MPG for the entire year and compared that to Houston and stated both teams had 10 or 11 guys playing 10+mpg. But when you started looking at the trend of what was happening. Houston had clearly trimmed minutes significantly right around the start of conference play and was basically at just 8 players with 10+ mpg and Penny was not significantly trimming minutes and still had 10 players over 10+ minutes.

Where is the trend?

Houston last game played 11 guys (not counting 2 more in mop-up duty), with 9 players over 10+ minutes.
Houston last weekend played 11 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.
And these games were without Caleb Mills - who would have been almost certain to get 10+ minutes.

The same time frame...Memphis last night played 11 guys, with 8 players over 10+ minutes.
Memphis last weekend played 10 guys, with 8 getting over 10+ minutes.

Yet the contention is Sampson is shortening the rotation, while Penny is not? And the contention is Penny plays too many guys?

The analysis was fine. It just didn't fit the narrative, so you came up with a theory that is not playing out true.

I have said all along. It's not playing too many guys and trying to "be buddies" - which is your narrative. It is the herky-jerky sub pattern that can be frustrating. Last night, 2nd half this settled down. Maybe a good sign.

Originally YOU CHOSE the metric of 10+ minutes per game... So now you are shifting the narrative to fit you desired outcome by stating total number of players played. Yes, most teams are going to play 10 or 11 guys total but 2 or 3 of those guys are only going to get a handful of minutes (sans blowouts).

Most conference games Memphis (most recent first)
- 11 total with 9 over 10 minutes - 20 point win
- 10 total with 9 over 10 minutes (note Baugh DNP) - 1 point loss
- 11 total with 10 over 10 minutes - 1 point win
- 10 total with 8 over 10 mintues (note Alo and Dandridge DNP) - 7 point loss
- 10 total with 10 over 10 minutes - 6 point win

Houston' most recent 6 conference games
- 13 played with 10 over 10 minutes - 27 point win
- 11 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 17 point win
- 11 played with 9 over 10 minutes - 21 point win
- 9 played with 6 over 10 minutes - 7 point win
- 9 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 14 point win
- 11 played with 8 over 10 minutes - 1 point loss

We are 9 to 10 every game at 10+ minutes. When Houston is not winning by 20+ they are never have more than 8 at 10+ minutes.

8 players with significant minutes is just kind of the standard most teams play by in normal (non blowout) games. Penny has not followed that model for whatever reason and many of us (me included) think that prevents players from getting into a rhythm which leads to poor offense often.

There isn't such a thing as for whatever reason. The reason is obvious. In most games we have multiple players that struggle offensively and in many games the entire team does. Assuming that Thomas gets mop up minutes anyway, that leaves 10 players in the rotation.

Tulsa 57 Points
If you want to play 8 against Tulsa, you have 4 players that played poorly and Baugh was injured. Your 8 man rotation is impossible because only Williams, LQ and Dandridge (who is NOT in the 8 man rotation), played very well. Especially, since as some have said, Penny is giving away minutes to players that don't deserve them and isn't holding them accountable as it is.
0-0 Cisse
2-4 DJ
0-1 Lomax
0-6 Boogie
0-0 Baugh injured

USF 58 Points
Again, you have 5 players that aren't effective; none of whom you can reward or trust by saying you are going to roll with them good or bad.
2-6 DJ
1-3 Cisse
0-0 Baugh (only 5 minutes)
2-3 Lomax
2-6 Boogie

Tulsa 49 Points
5 players ineffective and Lomax injured. There is no way you can shorten your bench when 4 players aren't producing and one is not available.
2-10 Nolley
2-6 DJ
2-2 Cisse
2-7 Boogie
0-5 Baugh
0-0 Lomax injured

Tulane 80 Points
We score 80 which is great, but 4 players score 64 of them and shoot 54.5%. The rest of the team scores 16 points and shoots 16.6% Only 4 players earned minutes with the other 6 being unproductive.

There is another major flaw with the notion of tightening up the bench. At the 5 we have Cisse and Dandridge who are both wildly inconsistent, and Dandridge is playing hurt. If Dandridge is healthy, you for sure give him a shot at playing time; and you have to play one of them at almost all times.

The other is at point guard, where all three are not playing well. You have to at least try Lomax, Boogie and Baugh with the hope that one of them will have a good game. You can't just decide that one of them is your man and that's it. So right off of the bat, 5 players who aren't producing at a high level, need to at least have a shot at playing well.

Nolley, Williams and LQ have really bad games also, but at least with them, they have more good ones than bad ones, and they are going to do things to help you win even if they have an off game. DJ should be treated the same as Lomax, Baugh, Boogie, Junior and Dandridge. When he is playing well, play him. When he's not sit him.

You have a grand total of 3 players that can usually be trusted. There is no way you can just decide to play less than 8 players every game. You have to play the other 7 and hope that 3 of them play reasonably well.