(01-17-2021 01:34 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 09:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 09:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 09:22 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 08:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Dennis Dodd on the same topic---

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-loose...-76232695/

If the AAC is really talking to both schools then they either want only one of them or both plus a 3rd school because they are not shooting for 13 football schools. Its either 12 or 14. So one more would be one of BYU, CSU or AFA.

Dodd says they want 3. Boise, SDSU and a "mystery" school. He doesnt know who it is--but says he's pretty sure it isnt BYU. Says he heard Army mentioned---but doesnt really know. Army seems far fetched too.

If Navy wants to keep playing in the west division they might invite Army.

Perhaps the AAC will ultimately go not just to 14 but all the way to 16.

West: SDSU, Boise St, AFA, Colorado St, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Navy
East: Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Army

Offer the western schools all sport memberships. 16 FB/15 BB.

Maybe they'll go to 70 teams just for the hell of it.

If the AAC expanding doesn't get it a every year access bowl it will definitely lend to the argument the G5 deserves at least a second one considering how strong they are.

And if I go by the original Boise/SDSU/Army to 14 rumor it puts the kibosh on the WAC/ASun FBS movement.

AAC (Boise, SDSU, Army)
MWC (UTEP, Rice)
CUSA (TxSt, Louisiana)
SBC (Lamar, Chattanooga)

SBC performs its duty as the entry level FBS conference to take in WAC and ASun football prospects.

It also makes a CUSA/SBC reshuffle less necessary as CUSA is able to reduce its geographic footprint.

(01-19-2021 10:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 09:57 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 07:20 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:38 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  I believe what you're alluding to is the original invites sent out by the then Big East in 2011-2012. Nine schools were invited UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis as full members and Navy, Air Force, Boise, BYU & SDSU as FB only members. BYU refused to give up their tv rights for their home games. Had BYU gotten on board the conference probably wouldn't have kept Louisville or Rutgers however the membership would look very different.
UCF, Cincinnati, Uconn, Houston, SMU, Memphis, usf, Navy (fb only), Boise (fb only), BYU (fb only), SDSU (fb only).

Wouldn't be surprised if Air Force accepted their invite with 3 other MWC rivals joining, that'd round out the conference to 12 members.

Temple probably would not have been invited as BYU would likely have been able to join immediately having just left the MWC. That would have prevented the need to rush an additional member not to fall below 8 active FBS members.

They'd need another full member with FB to make 8, so Temple would still most likely be added.

Don't forget Temple was technically added to the old Big East.

https://www.bigeast.com/news/2012/3/7/TE...th=general

At the time you still had the old Catholic 7 including many East Coast schools as well as Rutgers so being an East Coast school was still an asset. Villanova probably didn't want Temple in the conference but at that point after Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia had announced they were out (Rutgers hadn't announced they were out yet) the other Big East schools were desperate. Would Temple have been added to the AAC without the Catholic 7 is a totally different question. Same with UConn. The two (Temple and Connecticut) were just inherited. The Big East Catholic 7 just added any football schools that would join, geography be damned and eventually once the ACC took the schools it wanted and Rutgers and West Virginia left, the remaining schools for the most part shifted more southern and UConn and Temple became oddballs (Cincinnati is a midwestern school but so close to the south they probably don't feel that out of place or tell me I'm wrong Cincy fans?)

Particularly by the time Pitt and Syracuse left, I doubt the C7 really cared much what schools were added, as they were most likely already preparing to leave. That said, I imagine Temple was an exception, since Villanova didn't want them in the same league. This is presumably why only Temple FB was added for 2012-13, and they didn't become a full member until the following season, after the C7 had departed.

Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving in September, 2011. My recollection is that the C7 didn't really change their attitude towards leaving until much later, in the fall of 2012.

It was the events of October - November 2012, when Aresco failed to reach a big deal with ESPN during their "exclusive negotiating window" followed by the departure of Rutgers and Louisville around Thanksgiving, that was the "final straw" in the minds of the Catholic core schools. That's when they decided to abandon ship. Before then, they were hanging in there with the Big East, riding the turbulence. So when Temple was invited in early 2012, the C7 were still "in" with that.

It was just a desperate time, when existing Big East schools, like Villanova and USF, had to abandon their negative attitudes about membership towards rivals such as UCF and Temple.

The Big East's press release clearly states that Temple was expected to be included in Big East men's basketball in 2014 ... "In 2014, the BIG EAST basketball membership will include UCF, Cincinnati, Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Houston, Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, Notre Dame, Providence, Rutgers, St. John's, Seton Hall, SMU, Temple, USF and Villanova."

Also, "Villanova, Temple and the BIG EAST have worked closely together throughout this process to ensure all three organizations will succeed in the Philadelphia market."

Was Villanova happy with Temple's admission? Probably not. Did they vote for it? Probably not. Would Temple have gotten in if Villanova wasn't thinking they were on their way out? Who knows? But as Nerdlinger said, the Big East was desperate. Or think about the phrase "beggars can't be choosers".

(01-19-2021 09:59 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 02:09 AM)Realignment Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 05:18 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 02:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  What is keeping Tulsa and Tulane down which hurts the AAC's overall image is those two schools have the lack of fan support for football. They got rid of the third one which was UConn, but adding Boise State and San Diego State, the two tops in football attendence in MWC to the AAC would elevate both schools and elevate the AAC. Replace Tulsa and Tulane with Boise State and San Diego State and add BYU? Then you can call AAC a P6 conference.

Tulsa and Tulane had decent TV ratings this year. Not great, but not so low where you can make a case for removal.

To kick a team out, they really must be uncompetitive as there is a LOT of political capital that you are spending to do it.

Kicking out the private schools gets you maybe an extra NCAAT bid every 2-3 years (like a 10-11 seed bubble team that sneaks in). By the way, even if you pulled ALL of that off, the power conference teams still will not respect you. There are structural reasons you are not in the club at that point.

The American is doing well in the fact that they have universities located in major metro cities. I do think having Charlotte over ECU would've been the better move. I think Georgia State would be a good add for #12 as it brings in the Atlanta market. But I'm sure the AAC will just wait until they add at this point. Though, I think Air Force as a football only member (let them move the other sports to the new WAC) would be the best move for them.

Georgia State has only made the NCAAs 5 times and 4 bowl games. They don't have the deep tradition the AAC is normally looking for. Stadium is also only 26,000 seats.

Are they ready for a new CUSA/SBC configuration? In that case I'd say yes.

Id have to say if Georgia St is the best available #12---then the AAC is probably better off standing pat at 11 until a bigger more established brand shows interest or one of these schools "with potential" clearly emerges as an obvious pick.

There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

Besides the Mountain West, of course.

Not including Army and the MAC, UL Lafayette would be the next longest tenured FBS/1-A program east of Texas (and not in the AAC) behind Southern Miss.

Marshall was 1-A way back with the MAC then dropped down and reappeared years later. Buffalo was a University Division Indy back in the 60's and maybe earlier before they dropped.

(01-19-2021 07:20 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:38 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 02:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  What is keeping Tulsa and Tulane down which hurts the AAC's overall image is those two schools have the lack of fan support for football. They got rid of the third one which was UConn, but adding Boise State and San Diego State, the two tops in football attendence in MWC to the AAC would elevate both schools and elevate the AAC. Replace Tulsa and Tulane with Boise State and San Diego State and add BYU? Then you can call AAC a P6 conference.

I believe what you're alluding to is the original invites sent out by the then Big East in 2011-2012. Nine schools were invited UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis as full members and Navy, Air Force, Boise, BYU & SDSU as FB only members. BYU refused to give up their tv rights for their home games. Had BYU gotten on board the conference probably wouldn't have kept Louisville or Rutgers however the membership would look very different.
UCF, Cincinnati, Uconn, Houston, SMU, Memphis, usf, Navy (fb only), Boise (fb only), BYU (fb only), SDSU (fb only).

Wouldn't be surprised if Air Force accepted their invite with 3 other MWC rivals joining, that'd round out the conference to 12 members.

Temple probably would not have been invited as BYU would likely have been able to join immediately having just left the MWC. That would have prevented the need to rush an additional member not to fall below 8 active FBS members.

They'd need another full member with FB to make 8, so Temple would still most likely be added.

Don't forget Temple was technically added to the old Big East.

https://www.bigeast.com/news/2012/3/7/TE...th=general

At the time you still had the old Catholic 7 including many East Coast schools as well as Rutgers so being an East Coast school was still an asset. Villanova probably didn't want Temple in the conference but at that point after Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia had announced they were out (Rutgers hadn't announced they were out yet) the other Big East schools were desperate. Would Temple have been added to the AAC without the Catholic 7 is a totally different question. Same with UConn. The two (Temple and Connecticut) were just inherited. The Big East Catholic 7 just added any football schools that would join, geography be damned and eventually once the ACC took the schools it wanted and Rutgers and West Virginia left, the remaining schools for the most part shifted more southern and UConn and Temple became oddballs (Cincinnati is a midwestern school but so close to the south they probably don't feel that out of place or tell me I'm wrong Cincy fans?)

Most of the AAC's members were invited to the old Big East. UCF, Houston & SMU announced their move to the Big East at the end of 2011, Navy & Memphis announced the beginning of 2012. Temple was added because they were able to jump in for the 2012 season to give the conference 8 FBS members after the conference backed down from West Virginia's law suit to leave immediately for the Big 12.

If BYU had been on board they could have jumped in for the 2012 season having just left the MW and being in the process of compiling their first indy schedule they didn't have any penalties they would have accrued by joining early.

IIRC Tulsa and possibly ECU were the only football members invited after the Big East split.

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

I would add that both USF and Cincy also spent time as members of the Big East when it was an automatic qualifier conference in the BCS power structure. Army is about the only school east of the Rockies that makes a lot of sense for the AAC at this time---and I dont sense that Army has any current interest in joining.

(01-19-2021 11:42 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 07:20 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:54 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 06:38 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 02:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  What is keeping Tulsa and Tulane down which hurts the AAC's overall image is those two schools have the lack of fan support for football. They got rid of the third one which was UConn, but adding Boise State and San Diego State, the two tops in football attendence in MWC to the AAC would elevate both schools and elevate the AAC. Replace Tulsa and Tulane with Boise State and San Diego State and add BYU? Then you can call AAC a P6 conference.

I believe what you're alluding to is the original invites sent out by the then Big East in 2011-2012. Nine schools were invited UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis as full members and Navy, Air Force, Boise, BYU & SDSU as FB only members. BYU refused to give up their tv rights for their home games. Had BYU gotten on board the conference probably wouldn't have kept Louisville or Rutgers however the membership would look very different.
UCF, Cincinnati, Uconn, Houston, SMU, Memphis, usf, Navy (fb only), Boise (fb only), BYU (fb only), SDSU (fb only).

Wouldn't be surprised if Air Force accepted their invite with 3 other MWC rivals joining, that'd round out the conference to 12 members.

Temple probably would not have been invited as BYU would likely have been able to join immediately having just left the MWC. That would have prevented the need to rush an additional member not to fall below 8 active FBS members.

They'd need another full member with FB to make 8, so Temple would still most likely be added.

Don't forget Temple was technically added to the old Big East.

https://www.bigeast.com/news/2012/3/7/TE...th=general

At the time you still had the old Catholic 7 including many East Coast schools as well as Rutgers so being an East Coast school was still an asset. Villanova probably didn't want Temple in the conference but at that point after Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia had announced they were out (Rutgers hadn't announced they were out yet) the other Big East schools were desperate. Would Temple have been added to the AAC without the Catholic 7 is a totally different question. Same with UConn. The two (Temple and Connecticut) were just inherited. The Big East Catholic 7 just added any football schools that would join, geography be damned and eventually once the ACC took the schools it wanted and Rutgers and West Virginia left, the remaining schools for the most part shifted more southern and UConn and Temple became oddballs (Cincinnati is a midwestern school but so close to the south they probably don't feel that out of place or tell me I'm wrong Cincy fans?)

Most of the AAC's members were invited to the old Big East. UCF, Houston & SMU announced their move to the Big East at the end of 2011, Navy & Memphis announced the beginning of 2012. Temple was added because they were able to jump in for the 2012 season to give the conference 8 FBS members after the conference backed down from West Virginia's law suit to leave immediately for the Big 12.

If BYU had been on board they could have jumped in for the 2012 season having just left the MW and being in the process of compiling their first indy schedule they didn't have any penalties they would have accrued by joining early.

IIRC Tulsa and possibly ECU were the only football members invited after the Big East split.

ECU is complicated. They joined the Big East for football only in late November 2012, before the Big East split. This was at the same time Tulane joined and right after Rutgers and Louisville left.

The C7 announced they were leaving in mid-December 2012. In early March 2013, the split was formalized and the "Big East" name was sold to the C7 effective July 1st 2013. In late March, about two weeks after the C7 left, ECU's invitation was extended to all sports.

Tulsa joined on April 2, 2013. On April 4, the remaining schools re-branded as the "AAC" effective July 1st, 2013.

So IMO the best way to describe it is that Tulsa joined after the split, ECU football joined before the split and the rest of the sports after the split.

(01-19-2021 11:41 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

Besides the Mountain West, of course.

Which is why I said central and eastern time zones. Once you get into the Mountain time zone you add UTEP and most of the MWC.

Quote:Not including Army and the MAC, UL Lafayette would be the next longest tenured FBS/1-A program east of Texas (and not in the AAC) behind Southern Miss.

Marshall was 1-A way back with the MAC then dropped down and reappeared years later. Buffalo was a University Division Indy back in the 60's and maybe earlier before they dropped.

To put into perspective how recent ULL's bump up to 1-A was they left the southland to be 1a independent in 82. That's practically a newborn next to USM who was going to the Sun Bowl and upsetting Bama in the 50's.

Marshall was 1-A for a time but most casual fans only knew of them in 97 when they rejoined FBS with some wideout named Randy Moss.


The point being the AAC has almost every "oh yeah we used to play that team" or "I remember them being really good way back when" brand that casual fans might recognize outside of the power 5 that is in the central or eastern time zone.

The MWC has most of the rest.

(01-19-2021 12:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

I would add that both USF and Cincy also spent time as members of the Big East when it was an automatic qualifier conference in the BCS power structure. Army is about the only school east of the Rockies that makes a lot of sense for the AAC at this time---and I dont sense that Army has any current interest in joining.

Yeah those two having time in BCS bowl races that were televised and the Big East's early adoption of Thursday/Friday tv windows helped brand awareness for those two a lot.

(01-19-2021 12:42 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:41 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

Besides the Mountain West, of course.

Which is why I said central and eastern time zones. Once you get into the Mountain time zone you add UTEP and most of the MWC.

Quote:Not including Army and the MAC, UL Lafayette would be the next longest tenured FBS/1-A program east of Texas (and not in the AAC) behind Southern Miss.

Marshall was 1-A way back with the MAC then dropped down and reappeared years later. Buffalo was a University Division Indy back in the 60's and maybe earlier before they dropped.

To put into perspective how recent ULL's bump up to 1-A was they left the southland to be 1a independent in 82. That's practically a newborn next to USM who was going to the Sun Bowl and upsetting Bama in the 50's.

Marshall was 1-A for a time but most casual fans only knew of them in 97 when they rejoined FBS with some wideout named Randy Moss.


The point being the AAC has almost every "oh yeah we used to play that team" or "I remember them being really good way back when" brand that casual fans might recognize outside of the power 5 that is in the central or eastern time zone.

The MWC has most of the rest.

Well put. I began working part-time at Athlon Sports Communications (in Nashville) in early 1990. Back then, we Athlonians generally considered the long-affiliated-in-some-manner trio of Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis as "major" indy football programs. Southern Miss, and ECU offered a good bit of football cache at that time. Tulane was respected due to academics.

In those days, UCF was unknown. USF had name recognition due to its membership in the old Metro but was still a bit of an outlier. Marshall was DI-AA until, I recall, 1998, and offered solid name recognition).

As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the AAC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

EDIT: Changed ACC to AAC.

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

There is certainly a risk/reward aspect to that given how an unbeaten vs 1 loss team probably would be treated better despite a potentially easier slate.

Quote:Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

That might be a fun deal but watch them set it up and end up with three unbeatens the first year haha

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

Absolutely not. In that type of postseason setup if it is a G5 access spot than they'll likely already be matched up against the #1 seed why would they force an unnecessary game before going into that?

Frankly as things stand that should be an AAC autobid spot just like the P5 conferences. The only non AAC teams to go to the NY6 access bowl is Boise in the 2014 season and Western Michigan in the 2016 season. If you look at the rankings in 2016 the committee had a 2 loss Houston and 1 loss Boise in front of W Michigan in week 12 then a 2 loss Navy ready to jump them in week 13. The stars aligned for W Michigan to go undefeated and have all these teams in front of them or positioned to jump them wind up with 3 or 4 losses.

So if you add Boise to the AAC then the NY6 access bowl has only gone to a non AAC team once and the stars had to align for that to happen.

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

For those G5 fans who are salivating at the prospect of a 5-1-2 model for an expanded playoff, they may want to be careful what they wish for.

That one spot will most likely be instead of a guaranteed spot in the NY6, not an addition to it. And, if the first round of that playoff is played in Week 16, right after CCG week, the G5 team will likely be the sacrificial lamb for the #1 seed every year, sending them home with no New Years Bowl. Unless all bowl invites are delayed until after the quarterfinal playoff round, that game may be the only postseason they get. And I wouldn't count on that invite bringing in a bigger payday than they now get from the current CFP deal.

(01-19-2021 12:42 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:41 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  There are lots of schools situated in a lot of markets but other than the Florida twins what you have in the AAC is basically a who's who of non-P5 long term brands in the eastern and central time zones.

Major service academy Navy
Former SWC members SMU & Houston
Former SEC member Tulane
Former Big East member Temple
Longtime notable independents Memphis, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and ECU

Each of these isn't just in a market but they also have a lot of regional name ID. Really the only teams with a looooong FBS tenure and that kind of name ID not in the American would be Army, Southern Miss, and former SWC member Rice. Most of the rest of the G5 except a few MAC schools are former FCS teams.

Besides the Mountain West, of course.

Which is why I said central and eastern time zones. Once you get into the Mountain time zone you add UTEP and most of the MWC.

Quote:Not including Army and the MAC, UL Lafayette would be the next longest tenured FBS/1-A program east of Texas (and not in the AAC) behind Southern Miss.

Marshall was 1-A way back with the MAC then dropped down and reappeared years later. Buffalo was a University Division Indy back in the 60's and maybe earlier before they dropped.

To put into perspective how recent ULL's bump up to 1-A was they left the southland to be 1a independent in 82. That's practically a newborn next to USM who was going to the Sun Bowl and upsetting Bama in the 50's.

Marshall was 1-A for a time but most casual fans only knew of them in 97 when they rejoined FBS with some wideout named Randy Moss.


The point being the AAC has almost every "oh yeah we used to play that team" or "I remember them being really good way back when" brand that casual fans might recognize outside of the power 5 that is in the central or eastern time zone.

The MWC has most of the rest.

Southern Miss upset Alabama while in a different division though. They weren’t University Division until 1963.

UL Lafayette was a member of the Southland when they were elevated to Division I in 1975. Therefore, UL Lafayette has been at what is now the FBS level since 1975. Technically, Southern Miss has been FBS 12 years longer than the Cajuns.

North Texas is a current FBS program that was at the now FBS level before Southern Miss, but of course they dropped in the early 80’s.

(01-19-2021 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

For those G5 fans who are salivating at the prospect of a 5-1-2 model for an expanded playoff, they may want to be careful what they wish for.

That one spot will most likely be instead of a guaranteed spot in the NY6, not an addition to it. And, if the first round of that playoff is played in Week 16, right after CCG week, the G5 team will likely be the sacrificial lamb for the #1 seed every year, sending them home with no New Years Bowl. Unless all bowl invites are delayed until after the quarterfinal playoff round, that game may be the only postseason they get. And I wouldn't count on that invite bringing in a bigger payday than they now get from the current CFP deal.

I'd think expanding the CFP to 8 would just mean 4 of NY6 (NY8?) bowls would be used for the quarterfinals.

(01-19-2021 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

For those G5 fans who are salivating at the prospect of a 5-1-2 model for an expanded playoff, they may want to be careful what they wish for.

That one spot will most likely be instead of a guaranteed spot in the NY6, not an addition to it. And, if the first round of that playoff is played in Week 16, right after CCG week, the G5 team will likely be the sacrificial lamb for the #1 seed every year, sending them home with no New Years Bowl. Unless all bowl invites are delayed until after the quarterfinal playoff round, that game may be the only postseason they get. And I wouldn't count on that invite bringing in a bigger payday than they now get from the current CFP deal.

You’re assuming that the New Years Day bowls won’t be the host for the 4 quarter final games.

Ideally, the quarter finals will all be played New Years Eve/Day, the semi’s 10-14 days later and the final the weekend prior to the Super Bowl.

(01-19-2021 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

For those G5 fans who are salivating at the prospect of a 5-1-2 model for an expanded playoff, they may want to be careful what they wish for.

That one spot will most likely be instead of a guaranteed spot in the NY6, not an addition to it. And, if the first round of that playoff is played in Week 16, right after CCG week, the G5 team will likely be the sacrificial lamb for the #1 seed every year, sending them home with no New Years Bowl. Unless all bowl invites are delayed until after the quarterfinal playoff round, that game may be the only postseason they get. And I wouldn't count on that invite bringing in a bigger payday than they now get from the current CFP deal.

The gamble for the G5 will be that even the first round of an 8-team playoff will be a bigger deal, and more watched, than the NYD CFP sponsored bowls that have no role in determining a national champion. Based on what we have seen to this point---that's a gamble with very little risk. I think the future of the G5 is far brighter by being locked into a guaranteed playoff participant against the very best teams in college football than it is if the G5 simply has an automatic invite to a meaningless post season exhibition game---regardless of the date or size of the stage for that game. The former represents true relevance in the sport where as the latter is simply an interesting diversion for a night.

(01-19-2021 02:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 01:54 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 12:59 PM)Eggszecutor Wrote:  As a group of 5 member, getting that coveted hypothetical 5-1-2 playoff spot has pretty much the same criteria as getting the automatic NY bowl spot in the world today.

1) You need to finish undefeated OR have the best record compared to the other Group of 5 schools.

2) You need to have the appearance of being better than any other undefeated or same record Group of 5 school.

That won't change while trying to get the 5-1-2 spot. I'm not sure why Boise State thinks they will have a better chance at getting that spot being in a conference of "the best-of-the-rest" when they (and everyone else in that conference) will have a better chance of losing a game or two throughout the year. Their best chance for being undefeated is being in a more watered-down conference like the Mountain West. Have a couple good match ups to boost the resume and then hope the ACC doesn't have an undefeated team that looks better than they do.

This "best-of-the-rest" conference would have to be perceived as being far superior to the other Group of 5 conferences (like todays world of a 2-loss SEC team "obviously" being better than any Group of 5 team) to have their non-undefeated champion get the playoff spot. If that's not the case, then an undefeated Western Michigan-type school would likely get that playoff spot.

Or better yet, take the top 2 ranked Group of 5 members and have them duke it out for that spot.

For those G5 fans who are salivating at the prospect of a 5-1-2 model for an expanded playoff, they may want to be careful what they wish for.

That one spot will most likely be instead of a guaranteed spot in the NY6, not an addition to it. And, if the first round of that playoff is played in Week 16, right after CCG week, the G5 team will likely be the sacrificial lamb for the #1 seed every year, sending them home with no New Years Bowl. Unless all bowl invites are delayed until after the quarterfinal playoff round, that game may be the only postseason they get. And I wouldn't count on that invite bringing in a bigger payday than they now get from the current CFP deal.

The gamble for the G5 will be that even the first round of an 8-team playoff will be a bigger deal, and more watched, than the NYD CFP sponsored bowls that have no role in determining a national champion. Based on what we have seen to this point---that's a gamble with very little risk. I think the future of the G5 is far brighter by being locked into a guaranteed playoff participant against the very best teams in college football than it is if the G5 simply has an automatic invite to a meaningless post season exhibition game---regardless of the date or size of the stage for that game. The former represents true relevance in the sport where as the latter is simply an interesting diversion for a night.

How about something like this (if the 5-1-2 model pushes through)?

1. Quarterfinals at higher seed home stadium.
2. After quarterfinals are played, bowls are selected. Quarterfinal losers play each other, avoiding rematches, in NY6/8 bowls along with other qualifying schools and semifinalists.

Regardless of being the "sacrificial lamb," the national champion goes through the #1 seed. It's either the #1 seed, a team that beat the #1 seed, or (in a 5-1-2 playoff) a team that beat a team that beat the #1 seed.