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Boise St looking to move on from MWC
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #361
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 01:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

I think you could do 16 but I’d make some tweaks;

Fresno St instead of Colorado St

Wich St/Navy in the West instead of Houston

West schools would be on CA every season and TX every other; East schools would be in FL every season and TX every other.

Navy will like being in a division with SDSU, AFA, and SMU.

The AAC apparently isn’t still keen on a Coast-to-Coast conference anymore or else we would be talking about Boise St as a potential full member.

Is ESPN irritated enough with the MWC to bankroll a gutting of that conference to make way for a de facto P6?

Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

Strangely, if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 02:19 PM by Attackcoog.)
12-30-2020 02:15 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #362
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
Big Sky is not an ESPN conference. They partner with Pluto TV for pretty much everything outside of the Men's championship game.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it
12-30-2020 02:19 PM
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Post: #363
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

I think you could do 16 but I’d make some tweaks;

Fresno St instead of Colorado St

Wich St/Navy in the West instead of Houston

West schools would be on CA every season and TX every other; East schools would be in FL every season and TX every other.

Navy will like being in a division with SDSU, AFA, and SMU.

The AAC apparently isn’t still keen on a Coast-to-Coast conference anymore or else we would be talking about Boise St as a potential full member.

Is ESPN irritated enough with the MWC to bankroll a gutting of that conference to make way for a de facto P6?

Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

Strangely, if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

Right. A coast to coast American Athletic Conference would encompass teams from all over the country that are as good if not better than the bottom half of the P5.

Think back to the foundation of C-USA. For the time, they had an unprecedentedly large geographic footprint but this was because its membership drew from both Midwest and Southeast schools who were left out of the older, more established conferences (not to mention Army, who has appeal in all parts of the country even if they were in a putrid stretch during those years).
12-30-2020 02:29 PM
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Post: #364
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:19 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Big Sky is not an ESPN conference. They partner with Pluto TV for pretty much everything outside of the Men's championship game.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it

Does ESPN care where Boise parks their Olys if they get their FB product? My guess is "no".
12-30-2020 02:38 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #365
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:38 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:19 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Big Sky is not an ESPN conference. They partner with Pluto TV for pretty much everything outside of the Men's championship game.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it

Does ESPN care where Boise parks their Olys if they get their FB product? My guess is "no".

Most likely correct, however, unless ESPN is paying Boise State for those Olympic sports rights then Boise doesn't really have a motivation to put them somewhere they deem inferior.
12-30-2020 02:55 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #366
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 11:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:42 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:30 AM)esayem Wrote:  The MWC seriously considered UTEP and Rice a few years ago, not NMSU. I don’t see that changing.

UTEP and Rice were serious about their desire to join; I don’t know how much thought the MWC gave their offer. Both of those programs have spent most of the past decade in the toilet.

Even if NMSU wasn’t Boise’s direct replacement there is a good possibility that the domino effect of Boise St leaving the MWC would result in NMSU leaving the WAC:

MWC replaces Boise with UTEP
C-USA replaces UTEP with an SBC school
SBC replaces lost school with NMSU


Why would a SBC team jump to the C-USA?

Texas State almost certainly would. Beyond that school, there isnt as much motivation for any other Sunbelt conference school to make that jump.

That would be driven by geography, not comps between leagues.
12-30-2020 02:56 PM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #367
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 09:42 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:30 AM)esayem Wrote:  The MWC seriously considered UTEP and Rice a few years ago, not NMSU. I don’t see that changing.

UTEP and Rice were serious about their desire to join; I don’t know how much thought the MWC gave their offer. Both of those programs have spent most of the past decade in the toilet.

Even if NMSU wasn’t Boise’s direct replacement there is a good possibility that the domino effect of Boise St leaving the MWC would result in NMSU leaving the WAC:

MWC replaces Boise with UTEP
C-USA replaces UTEP with an SBC school
SBC replaces lost school with NMSU

If Boise St left and if the MWC replaced the Broncos with UTEP, it may behoove CUSA to take New Mexico St. CUSA is more of a basketball league anyways. Plus, UTEP and NMSU are basically in the same location so it wouldn’t change travel.
12-30-2020 03:10 PM
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Post: #368
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

There's no need for the AAC to go past 14 teams. Boise, BYU & SDSU would be great and more than enough to solidify the AAC's separation from the G4 to P6.

East: UCF, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, usf, Tulane, Memphis
West: Houston, SMU, Navy, Tulsa, BYU, Boise, SDSU
12-30-2020 03:39 PM
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Post: #369
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

I think you could do 16 but I’d make some tweaks;

Fresno St instead of Colorado St

Wich St/Navy in the West instead of Houston

West schools would be on CA every season and TX every other; East schools would be in FL every season and TX every other.

Navy will like being in a division with SDSU, AFA, and SMU.

The AAC apparently isn’t still keen on a Coast-to-Coast conference anymore or else we would be talking about Boise St as a potential full member.

Is ESPN irritated enough with the MWC to bankroll a gutting of that conference to make way for a de facto P6?

Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

Strangely, if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

Everyone is free to disagree with me, but I feel the AAC DOES have a defined, and quite unique, identity. We are (with a few well-loved exceptions like Navy), the big city conference. We are big schools, in big cities, well served by big airports. Houston, Dallas, Orlando, Philly, Tampa, Cinci, etc. Its not geographic, but it's a real identity. I feel most of our schools are very similar in concerns and position in the pecking order. But distance is not much of a factor when we are all mostly by major airports.

That said, the Big East was largely ridiculed when we tried to go coast to coast before... I am really leery of trying that again. I love our current membership and footprint. BSU for 12 (or with BYU and AFA for 14) for football only sounds perfect to me.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 03:53 PM by Bull.)
12-30-2020 03:52 PM
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Post: #370
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 03:52 PM)Bull Wrote:  Everyone is free to disagree with me, but I feel the AAC DOES have a defined, and quite unique, identity. We are (with a few well-loved exceptions like Navy), the big city conference. We are big schools, in big cities, well served by big airports. Houston, Dallas, Orlando, Philly, Tampa, Cinci, etc. Its not geographic, but it's a real identity. I feel most of our schools are very similar in concerns and position in the pecking order. But distance is not much of a factor when we are all mostly by major airports.

That said, the Big East was largely ridiculed when we tried to go coast to coast before... I am really leery of trying that again. I love our current membership and footprint. BSU for 12 (or with BYU and AFA for 14) for football only sounds perfect to me.

This is a succinct and clear articulation of the AAC POV.

I tried to give the Boise State perspective, which is the American would be the right move for them if they would also take their Olympic Sports. As that is an opportunity for Football and a step up for Basketball to potentially become a major National program. The other side of it is financial, as moving All Sports gets the full payments of the American, without the negative charges of the other leagues like the Big West. Without it the finances are much less advantageous for a football only move.

That basically is why it's at an impasses, and will likely remain so. The American is quite happy with their Basketball line up and is not likely to want to add trips to Idaho on the schedule; and Boise State is not willing to downgrade their Basketball program level, or to move for less than the full American payout. This really has been the situation for the last 8 years.
12-30-2020 04:07 PM
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Post: #371
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

(Yet)...if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

It's true that the AAC schools are broadly scattered, but while they don't share a common regional identity, they do a few other important things in common, and it's possible that these non-regional commonalities might lead to the development of a common identity.

If one takes a moment to reflect on what causes a conference to develop a common identity, it makes sense to question whether regional commonality is an absolute necessity, and to ask - for example - if there is anything that could prevent the ACC from developing a common identity, given that it stretches from the semi-tropics of south Florida, all the way north to frigid New England, and 1,000 miles west toward the western reaches of the Ohio River.

Perhaps much of the reason why we tend to assume that regional commonalities might be the most essential prerequisites when it comes to forming a shared sense of identity is that it's so common for people from the same region to share some of the features (interests, activities, preferences, viewpoints, accents, etc.) that we may think of as being aspects of a person's "identity,"

However there are also some non-regional factors, such as common histories, traditions (e.g. rivalries), beliefs, motivations, and circumstances that can also engender a common sense of identity across groups, and like many other human and societal characteristics, identity is not static, but can evolve over time.

Take, for example, the way that Americans view their relationships with the other predominantly English-speaking nations, particularly Canada and the United Kingdom (as well as NZ, Australia, Ireland, etc.).

Rewinding back to 1815, the U.S. had just signed a treaty ending the war of 1812, which was fought with Great Britain and Canada, on American and Canadian soil. As citizens of a still-newly independent nation, who had just been at war with Britain, most Americans who were not of British descent wouldn't have felt a very strong sense of shared identity with the British. In fact, what distinguished Americans from the British was that the British identified themselves as subjects of the British throne, whereas the common sense of identity among Americans was based on their rejection of the British monarchy and their determination to elect to govern themselves.

This did not change for nearly a century. There was no common American/British sense of identity. All we shared was a common language, and the % of Americans of British descent declined steadily due to multiple waves of European (e.g., German, Irish, Scandinavian, Chinese, etc.) immigration.

However, when America entered World War I, to prevent the conquest of France and a British surrender to Germany, the historical animosity between the U.S. and Great Britain began to dissipate and to be replaced by a recognition of common values, such as a commitment to democratic government and an increased willingness to work cooperatively, which also helped to build ties between the U.S. and Canada. Twenty-three years later, when America entered WWII, for much the same reason, the remaining cultural barriers between the nations quickly gave way to what soon became known as the "special relationship between our two nations," and by extension, to the Commonwealth dominions of English descent (Canada, Australia, and N.Z.). From the standpoint of many Americans, this kind of shared sense of identity has naturally extended, as well, to the Irish, due to massive Irish immigration during the 19th/20th centuries.

So, while there are various cultural differences between Americans, Canadians, Australians, and the British and while the people of every nation certainly share their own national identities, there is a certain extent to which all but a small portion of Americans have come to recognize that we have so much in common with the British, etc. that we also consider ourselves to share a common sense of identity with the British, Canadians, etc. more broadly, in a way that wouldn't have been possible 100 years ago.

What do we share with them? For one thing, most of our initial settlers and almost all our founding fathers were British, and our government (like the Canadian, Australian, New Zealand governments) is directly modeled on the British government (U.S. House/House of Commons; Senate/House of Lords; President/Prime Minister; Supreme Court/Supreme Court) in almost every respect. We have been working together, closely, for 75 years to defend ourselves as a totality - "citizens" and "subjects" alike - through a mutual defense pact, we all speak the same native/official language, and we share many of the same common values, holidays, and traditions, which have the same historical roots dating back to the Judeo-Christian tradition.

We also share a lot of other things, many of which - - such as the works of the great British writers and playwrights (Shakespeare, Dickens, etc.) - - have not ceased to delight, thrill, and entertain us. The former Prime Minister Winston Churchill is admired and revered to this day, almost as our greatest Presidents have been, Most of us alive today like, love, or at least admire the music of the Beatles, musicians such as Sting and the Police, the British Invasion bands, the James Bond films, or the Peter Sellers or Monty Python comedies. Most Americans don't seem to have the slightest trouble understanding the words of a Brit or a Scot, even one with a heavy accent, and rarely give the differences in accent or manner a second thought when they see movies with British actors or Nicole Kidman being interviewed by Steven Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel. In fact, many Americans have shown a remarkable amount of admiration of and interest in the British Queen, Elizabeth, as if in some symbolic sense, she were our Queen, as well.

And for those of us who have traveled overseas, if an American like ourselves should happen to get into a jam or a crisis of some kind while traveling alone in some obscure part of the world where English is not a major language, with no smart phone, land line, or internet and no American within 100 miles, forcing ourselves to seek assistance from a total stranger, whom would most of us hope to encounter at such a moment of urgent need, all other things being equal?

I can't answer that question for everyone, but if were in such a situation, I would hope to meet a Canadian, an Irishman, a New Zealander, an Australian, a Scot, a Welshman, or a Brit, because, much as our nations have a special kind of relationship, so do our people. We are by no means identical, but in an important way, and with few exceptions, most of us would sense almost instinctually when faced with such an emergency, that there's something essential and important about us that we share in common, regardless of the differences, that makes us know we're basically "the same" on some very fundamental level.

"The point?" you ask...


The point is that, if it was possible for the U.S. and Great Britain, who had fought two major wars, to overcome their enmity to such an extent that they eventually grew close enough to view themselves as having a "special" relationship just "across the pond," then it is possible for fans of big city teams in Pennsylvania and Texas to feel a common sense of identity, as well.

.

Returning to the topic of conference identity, in the case of the AAC the nine former C-USA schools certainly have a shared history, shared traditions/rivalries, and shared circumstances - - since they all had a common goal for a number of years, which was to become strong enough as a group to evolve into a major national conference, much as the Big East Conference had recently proved to them was a possibility.

The nine former C-USA schools have continued to share all of these things in common in the AAC, since the overarching goal of the AAC is the same as the original C-USA's goal was - - to develop into a major national conference.

Their common aspirations alone, which are certainly shared by Temple and Wichita State and may well be shared by Navy as well, giving them enough of a shared identity to overcome the geographical distances between them.

They might be referred to as the "upwardly-mobile" conference, the underdogs, the "dark horses," the "American dreamers," or what have you, and if Boise State were to join, they would be doing so - more than anything else - because they, like the rest of the AAC schools are striving to achieve upper echelon status.

However, the AAC schools also share something else in common, which is that they have all had unique challenges that most of the major conference schools haven't had. For some, such as Houston, SMU, Tulane, USF, Cincy, and Temple, it was a regrettable loss of power conference status. For others, such as ECU, Wichita State, and Tulsa, it may have been playing in a relatively lightly populated, obscure or regionally isolated region. In UCF's case, it was a relative newcomer with no power conference history, and due to its very name, it was a "directional" and FBS school of the kind viewed by some as being necessariy "second tier" (like CMU, EMU, WMU, etc.). In Navy's case, it was one of the nation's once-great independent football powers that had, like Army, fallen a step behind and, like former independent Penn State, sought to boost its stature by affiliating with a strong, and in this case, upwardly-mobile conference.

The AAC schools may strike some as being a motley assortment of schools with seemingly little in common, but though some college sports fan aren't aware of it, the single most fundamental thing that all of the AAC schools and teams share in common is one of the most important elements of identity itself - - a common sense of purpose.


.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 06:54 PM by jedclampett.)
12-30-2020 04:07 PM
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Post: #372
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 03:39 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

There's no need for the AAC to go past 14 teams. Boise, BYU & SDSU would be great and more than enough to solidify the AAC's separation from the G4 to P6.

East: UCF, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, usf, Tulane, Memphis
West: Houston, SMU, Navy, Tulsa, BYU, Boise, SDSU

I like that. Would SDSU be able to help get Boise St into the Big West for Olympic sports?
12-30-2020 04:17 PM
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Post: #373
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 04:07 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

(Yet)...if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

True the AAC teams are broadly scattered, but though they don't share a regional identity, 9 of the 11 AAC schools (except Navy, Temple, and Wichita State) do share a common history, since are former members of the C-USA.

It may be that the reason why region seems like a particularly fundamental part of identity is some elements of identity stems from shared cultural characteristics (similar vocal accents, similar store/restaurant chains, weather or climate, etc.).

However, common history, shared traditions (e.g. rivalries), and shared circumstances can also engender a common sense of identity. The 9 former C-USA schools have a shared history, shared traditions/rivalries, and shared circumstances - - since they all had a common goal for a number of years, which was to become strong enough as a group to evolve into a major national conference, much as the Big East Conference had recently proved to them was a possibility.

Today, even though the name of the donference has changed, those same 9 former C-USA schools still share all of those things in common, and the overarching goal of the AAC is the same as the original C-USA's goal was - - to develop into a major national conference. That common aspiration alone, which is certainly shared by Temple and Wichita State and may be shared by Navy as well, may give them enough of a shared identity to overcome the distances between them.

Call them the upwardly-mobile conference, or the underdogs, the "dark horses," the "American dreamers," or what have you, if Boise State were to join, they would be doing so because they, like the rest of the AAC schools are striving to achieve upper echelon status.

The AAC schools also share something else in common, which is that they have all had unique challenges that most of the major conference schools haven't had. For some, such as Houston, SMU, Tulane, USF, Cincy, and Temple, it was a regrettable loss of power conference status. For others, such as ECU, Wichita State, and Tulsa, it may have been playing in a relatively lightly populated, obscure or regionally isolated region. In UCF's case, it was a relative newcomer with no power conference history, and due to its very name, it was a "directional" and FBS school of the kind viewed by some as being necessariy "second tier" (like CMU, EMU, WMU, etc.). In Navy's case, it was one of the nation's once-great independent football powers that had, like Army, fallen a step behind and, like former independent Penn State, sought to boost its stature by affiliating with a strong, and in this case, upwardly-mobile conference.

The AAC schools may strike some as being a somewhat motley assortment of schools with seemingly little in common, but though some may not be aware of it, the single most important thing that all of the AAC schools and teams share in common is one of the most important elements of identity itself - - a common sense of purpose.


.

Fun fact UCF is the first football program to play at every level.
DIII 1979-1981
DII 1982-1989
DI FCS 1990-1995
DI FBS 1996-present
----Indy 1996-2001 (stupid AD at the time turned down CUSA 1.0)
----MAC 2002-2004 (another stupid move)
----CUSA 2005-2012 (correcting the 1st 2 mistakes 9 years later)
----AAC 2013-present

If that doesn't epitomize the American dream idk what does. This climb is not for the faint of heart and we're not done yet.
12-30-2020 04:20 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #374
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:55 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:38 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:19 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Big Sky is not an ESPN conference. They partner with Pluto TV for pretty much everything outside of the Men's championship game.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it

Does ESPN care where Boise parks their Olys if they get their FB product? My guess is "no".

Most likely correct, however, unless ESPN is paying Boise State for those Olympic sports rights then Boise doesn't really have a motivation to put them somewhere they deem inferior.

ESPN currently has no rights to Boise sports of any kind, and if Boise joined the AAC as a "football only" member---Boise olympic sports would still not be part of the ESPN package. The WAC has a ESPN+ deal...so that could potentially come into play I suppose.
12-30-2020 05:23 PM
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Post: #375
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:56 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 11:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:42 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:30 AM)esayem Wrote:  The MWC seriously considered UTEP and Rice a few years ago, not NMSU. I don’t see that changing.

UTEP and Rice were serious about their desire to join; I don’t know how much thought the MWC gave their offer. Both of those programs have spent most of the past decade in the toilet.

Even if NMSU wasn’t Boise’s direct replacement there is a good possibility that the domino effect of Boise St leaving the MWC would result in NMSU leaving the WAC:

MWC replaces Boise with UTEP
C-USA replaces UTEP with an SBC school
SBC replaces lost school with NMSU


Why would a SBC team jump to the C-USA?

Texas State almost certainly would. Beyond that school, there isnt as much motivation for any other Sunbelt conference school to make that jump.

That would be driven by geography, not comps between leagues.

Correct. My point is simply every school has a different agenda. The only thing that is generally always true is with respect to school behavior is that schools always do what is in their own individual best interests.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 05:26 PM by Attackcoog.)
12-30-2020 05:25 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #376
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 04:07 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

(Yet)...if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

True the AAC teams are broadly scattered, but though they don't share a regional identity, 9 of the 11 AAC schools (except Navy, Temple, and Wichita State) do share a common history, since are former members of the C-USA.

It may be that the reason why region seems like a particularly fundamental part of identity is some elements of identity stems from shared cultural characteristics (similar vocal accents, similar store/restaurant chains, weather or climate, etc.).

However, common history, shared traditions (e.g. rivalries), and shared circumstances can also engender a common sense of identity. The 9 former C-USA schools have a shared history, shared traditions/rivalries, and shared circumstances - - since they all had a common goal for a number of years, which was to become strong enough as a group to evolve into a major national conference, much as the Big East Conference had recently proved to them was a possibility.

Today, even though the name of the donference has changed, those same 9 former C-USA schools still share all of those things in common, and the overarching goal of the AAC is the same as the original C-USA's goal was - - to develop into a major national conference. That common aspiration alone, which is certainly shared by Temple and Wichita State and may be shared by Navy as well, may give them enough of a shared identity to overcome the distances between them.

Call them the upwardly-mobile conference, or the underdogs, the "dark horses," the "American dreamers," or what have you, if Boise State were to join, they would be doing so because they, like the rest of the AAC schools are striving to achieve upper echelon status.

The AAC schools also share something else in common, which is that they have all had unique challenges that most of the major conference schools haven't had. For some, such as Houston, SMU, Tulane, USF, Cincy, and Temple, it was a regrettable loss of power conference status. For others, such as ECU, Wichita State, and Tulsa, it may have been playing in a relatively lightly populated, obscure or regionally isolated region. In UCF's case, it was a relative newcomer with no power conference history, and due to its very name, it was a "directional" and FBS school of the kind viewed by some as being necessariy "second tier" (like CMU, EMU, WMU, etc.). In Navy's case, it was one of the nation's once-great independent football powers that had, like Army, fallen a step behind and, like former independent Penn State, sought to boost its stature by affiliating with a strong, and in this case, upwardly-mobile conference.

The AAC schools may strike some as being a somewhat motley assortment of schools with seemingly little in common, but though some may not be aware of it, the single most important thing that all of the AAC schools and teams share in common is one of the most important elements of identity itself - - a common sense of purpose.


.

I dont see being former members of CUSA as a desirable characteristic upon which to define the AAC's future identity---unless "being part of a failed conference that also had no identity and never really accomplished any significant milestone" is an asset. The fact is, that conference was around almost 20 years when these AAC teams bailed. After 20 years there were no major rivalries that attracted any kind of significant attention. After 20 years---the conference still had no distinct identity---and after yet another round of realignment---it still doesnt. CUSA was just a repository for us misfit toys that were spread over hell's half acre. Frankly, my sense is the AAC teams should run like the dickens away from any association with CUSA (which is one reason I am so against replacing UConn with any school with a CUSA connection).

The AAC, despite having no real identifying characteristic---is off to a strong start and feels very different from CUSA. Thats a perception I think we want to foster. Be it Boise, BYU, Army, or Air Force---these UConn replacement options all add to the idea that the AAC is something completely different----NOT just a reheated CUSA casserole. If you replace UConn with UAB or Marshal or S Miss or Ricel---you just edge closer and closer to being nothing more than microwaved CUSA leftovers from 2011. Mmmmmm---good!

While I may not be sure if a full on nationwide plan is the way to go---I have absolutely ZERO doubt that adding Boise is a step in the right direction for the AAC and the tired old thinking that the UConn replacement must be an "in footprint retread" (even if the school adds no value and excites nobody) is a step in the wrong direction. Im certain of that. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 06:35 PM by Attackcoog.)
12-30-2020 05:45 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #377
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 03:52 PM)Bull Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 01:41 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Well then hatch a plan to go to 16 and bring in BYU, Col St, AFA, Boise, SDSU.

They can play in a new western division with SMU, Houston and Tulsa.

I think you could do 16 but I’d make some tweaks;

Fresno St instead of Colorado St

Wich St/Navy in the West instead of Houston

West schools would be on CA every season and TX every other; East schools would be in FL every season and TX every other.

Navy will like being in a division with SDSU, AFA, and SMU.

The AAC apparently isn’t still keen on a Coast-to-Coast conference anymore or else we would be talking about Boise St as a potential full member.

Is ESPN irritated enough with the MWC to bankroll a gutting of that conference to make way for a de facto P6?

Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

Strangely, if the AAC actually went MORE extreme in their lack of cohesive geography by adding Boise, SDSU, and BYU (for instance)---that "coast to coast" or "national" mantra would become a truly unique identifying characteristic for the AAC. They would be the only "national" or "coast to coast" conference in college football.

Everyone is free to disagree with me, but I feel the AAC DOES have a defined, and quite unique, identity. We are (with a few well-loved exceptions like Navy), the big city conference. We are big schools, in big cities, well served by big airports. Houston, Dallas, Orlando, Philly, Tampa, Cinci, etc. Its not geographic, but it's a real identity. I feel most of our schools are very similar in concerns and position in the pecking order. But distance is not much of a factor when we are all mostly by major airports.


ECU be like:

[Image: DisguisedClumsyColt-size_restricted.gif]
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 05:49 PM by dbackjon.)
12-30-2020 05:48 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #378
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

The AAC "footprint" is basically the same as CUSA's. Draw an east-west line that goes through Cincinnati and that's basically the northern border of each conference's footprint. (Temple is outside of it, football-only member Navy might be very slightly outside of it.) Draw a north-south line through San Antonio and that's basically the western edge of each conference (with only UTEP being outside of it).
12-30-2020 06:19 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #379
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
Gonzaga would be too far of a travel partner for Boise State right? 7 hour car ride. No idea if they (or the AAC) would be interested in but it would upgrade their basketball conference.
12-30-2020 06:26 PM
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Post: #380
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(12-30-2020 06:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 02:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its interesting. Most conferences have some sort of geographic identity. The Southeast Conference. The Atlantic Coast Coference. The Mid-American Conference. Even those that dont have it spelled out in the name have a geographic identity---The Big-12 is largely Texas and a middle swath of the nation. CUSA is largely a southeastern quadrant conference. The AAC is just a few clumps of schools all over the eastern side of the nation with no real common identity.

The AAC "footprint" is basically the same as CUSA's. Draw an east-west line that goes through Cincinnati and that's basically the northern border of each conference's footprint. (Temple is outside of it, football-only member Navy might be very slightly outside of it.) Draw a north-south line through San Antonio and that's basically the western edge of each conference (with only UTEP being outside of it).

The AAC and CUSA are similar in that they are half-continent models (like the MW). That said, the AAC feels much less southern than CUSA. The AAC is basically a clump of schools around Texas. Another clump in the NE. Then a tiny clump in Florida......with ECU drifting on an island of one doing an impression of W Virginia in the Big 12. lol....Boise, meanwhile, is considering taking over ECU's "W Virginia" act.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 06:42 PM by Attackcoog.)
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