We should run a poll of what percentage people actually believe there will be a spring FCS football season. It's not a sure thing.

I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

If you want to support Alger for forfeiting the season feel free to do so and elaborate on his athletic cunning. Make sure you donate more money too and reward a terrible decision. Alger and D-1 Athletics are like oil and water.
Also, you might want to refer to some of the Board discussions at the time of the Fall Forfeit announcement before claiming “hindsight”.

Some numbers to chew on.
1- all schools had to deal with the COVID curveball not just good ol’ JMU. Testing costs, opt outs, Rescheduled games etc
2- 17 FCS schools have played games. These are the schools JMU trumps in money and resources. Are they Somehow more capable? More savvy?
3- 124 FBS schools have played games and JMU has a larger budget than 30% of them.

Many schools got it right while JMU sat on the sidelines and played victim.

(11-14-2020 09:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

The plan is for championships to be played for in both the spring and fall of 2021. Injuries when chasing championships are part of the process, injuries when playing exhibition games with no crowds and not even a participation trophy are inexcusable.

(11-14-2020 09:26 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  We should run a poll of what percentage people actually believe there will be a spring FCS football season. It's not a sure thing.

I am beginning to think not for no other reason than the upcoming holidays increasing cases. If Halloween caused a spike, Thanksgiving will be nightmarish.

(11-14-2020 09:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

If you want to support Alger for forfeiting the season feel free to do so and elaborate on his athletic cunning. Make sure you donate more money too and reward a terrible decision. Alger and D-1 Athletics are like oil and water.
Also, you might want to refer to some of the Board discussions at the time of the Fall Forfeit announcement before claiming “hindsight”.

Some numbers to chew on.
1- all schools had to deal with the COVID curveball not just good ol’ JMU. Testing costs, opt outs, Rescheduled games etc
2- 17 FCS schools have played games. These are the schools JMU trumps in money and resources. Are they Somehow more capable? More savvy?
3- 124 FBS schools have played games and JMU has a larger budget than 30% of them.

Many schools got it right while JMU sat on the sidelines and played victim.

You're allowed to have your opinion, which is that JMU should have played football this fall. JMU decided that the safety of its constituents was paramount and opted to not pursue a fall season in light of a world-wide pandemic. To assert that 17 other FCS schools and 124 FBS schools are more capable or savvy proves that you are missing the point of the debate. There is no textbook right-or-wrong answer for how to handle things in 2020. Decisions are made based on the values at each organization. I'm sure many of those institutions playing ball this fall are enjoying a successful season, but to dog the ones who aren't playing doesn't add value to the conversation. There are at least as many who think playing sports right now is irresponsible, and they can have that opinion too.

(11-15-2020 07:52 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 09:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

If you want to support Alger for forfeiting the season feel free to do so and elaborate on his athletic cunning. Make sure you donate more money too and reward a terrible decision. Alger and D-1 Athletics are like oil and water.
Also, you might want to refer to some of the Board discussions at the time of the Fall Forfeit announcement before claiming “hindsight”.

Some numbers to chew on.
1- all schools had to deal with the COVID curveball not just good ol’ JMU. Testing costs, opt outs, Rescheduled games etc
2- 17 FCS schools have played games. These are the schools JMU trumps in money and resources. Are they Somehow more capable? More savvy?
3- 124 FBS schools have played games and JMU has a larger budget than 30% of them.

Many schools got it right while JMU sat on the sidelines and played victim.

You're allowed to have your opinion, which is that JMU should have played football this fall. JMU decided that the safety of its constituents was paramount and opted to not pursue a fall season in light of a world-wide pandemic. To assert that 17 other FCS schools and 124 FBS schools are more capable or savvy proves that you are missing the point of the debate. There is no textbook right-or-wrong answer for how to handle things in 2020. Decisions are made based on the values at each organization. I'm sure many of those institutions playing ball this fall are enjoying a successful season, but to dog the ones who aren't playing doesn't add value to the conversation. There are at least as many who think playing sports right now is irresponsible, and they can have that opinion too.

I think the premise of Harts argument is flawed - many FCS schools got Fall right? FCS schools who played in Fall have gone unnoticed. FBS schools and leagues who have played in Fall have got it right of course - Marshall Coastal Liberty etc this Fall has been great for their programs. Problem is JMU isn’t FBS we are FCS. If we were ODU I think you would have a real gripe that we sat out while others played but we don’t play in that division. I’d argue it’s a non event for JMU had we played a few games this Fall as an FCS school vs not.

Agree w-97. Playing or not playing at the fcs level, gotta go with not playing. The exposure, branding and butts in seats is a non starter for 99.98 percent of fcs games.
JMU going for the exposure of scheduling 4 fbs games and giving up $500,000 is a different topic

(11-15-2020 11:20 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Agree w-97. Playing or not playing at the fcs level, gotta go with not playing. The exposure, branding and butts in seats is a non starter for 99.98 percent of fcs games.
JMU going for the exposure of scheduling 4 fbs games and giving up $500,000 is a different topic

But they weren’t going to get 4 FBS games- 1- and 3 FCS. I believe they wanted to play 4 FBS - that would have been worthwhile for everyone involved. Criticizing JMU for still being FCS without peers is totally understandable ImO. Criticizing them for not playing an exhibition FCS schedule during Fall I think it’s knit picking.

If the UNC game had been cancelled due to COVID, would we be getting the $500K? I haven't seen the contract, but I doubt it mentioned a pandemic when signed a few years ago. I am not sure if COVID is included under the more general "act of God" clauses that most contracts have.

It is important to note that JMU had shut down the campus less than two weeks before that game, and the team couldn't do any activities until Sept 16 (Wednesday before the game). Safe to say we would have cancelled that game, and since it was "our fault" we wouldn't get paid anyway. We would still have the deficit, still have $0 of the $500k, still have no games in Fall, but I guess we would have shown resolve and savvy decision making to go after that cash money. Even if we had that $500k, how much of it would have gone into increased testing for the team leading up to that game? Even if every penny was accounted for in Revenue, the athletic department is still facing a $5M shortfall, which explains the recent fundraising effort that is being maligned on these boards.

You may not agree with the administration's efforts in this case, but I would hope you agree that if JMU is left holding the deficit end of the budget stick, it will be our student athletes that will ultimately suffer. I don't want to see JMU cutting tennis, golf, or cross country as a way to pare down expenses (even though the loss of tuition dollars from those partial scholarships would outweigh any benefits, but that's a different story). I was a student in 2006 when several sports were cut and felt powerless to help my classmates. I am a proud grad now in 2020, and have the means to help current Dukes, and all it costs me is $100 (on ticket for each stadium). Do I agree with the administration at every step and turn? No. I think we should be in FBS. But do I hate the Bournes and Algers, et al. more than I love my Dukes? Hell no. Support the teams when and if you can and you can still fax Bourne a picture of your middle finger or butt or whatever you want.

(11-15-2020 11:38 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(11-15-2020 11:20 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Agree w-97. Playing or not playing at the fcs level, gotta go with not playing. The exposure, branding and butts in seats is a non starter for 99.98 percent of fcs games.
JMU going for the exposure of scheduling 4 fbs games and giving up $500,000 is a different topic

But they weren’t going to get 4 FBS games- 1- and 3 FCS. I believe they wanted to play 4 FBS - that would have been worthwhile for everyone involved. Criticizing JMU for still being FCS without peers is totally understandable ImO. Criticizing them for not playing an exhibition FCS schedule during Fall I think it’s knit picking.

I would have liked to see JMU use season covid to play several fbs games. Warner ans Cig tweeted nobody will play. Do I buy the effort full retail, no.

I don't buy the nobody will play excuse and if I did that is ammo that JMU should be flex to get out of the CAA.

If we play fcs, meh, does it really matter?

I would have liked that as well/ I would have liked us to play 4 FBS games acquit ourselves well in those games and then go FBS officially in 2021 but given the current environment I realize that was a pipe dream.

The Campbell AD reports directly to the President, not the accountants in the finance department.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports...14985.html

(11-14-2020 09:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

If you want to support Alger for forfeiting the season feel free to do so and elaborate on his athletic cunning. Make sure you donate more money too and reward a terrible decision. Alger and D-1 Athletics are like oil and water.
Also, you might want to refer to some of the Board discussions at the time of the Fall Forfeit announcement before claiming “hindsight”.

Some numbers to chew on.
1- all schools had to deal with the COVID curveball not just good ol’ JMU. Testing costs, opt outs, Rescheduled games etc
2- 17 FCS schools have played games. These are the schools JMU trumps in money and resources. Are they Somehow more capable? More savvy?
3- 124 FBS schools have played games and JMU has a larger budget than 30% of them.

Many schools got it right while JMU sat on the sidelines and played victim.

Yeah, but none of those schools are as good at monitoring the situation as JMU. We are the kings of situation monitoring. Here's to hoping that one day, after we are all long gone, there is a Situation Monitoring Bowl. We will win every year!

(11-16-2020 07:22 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-14-2020 09:53 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand that some people are scared of competition and some people are scared of injuries. Seems like we should eliminate the football program then we could have no anxiety at all.
Just think of all those big meanies hitting our poor Dukes in the Spring. Will that wreck the 2021 Fall season just 5 months later.

If you want to support Alger for forfeiting the season feel free to do so and elaborate on his athletic cunning. Make sure you donate more money too and reward a terrible decision. Alger and D-1 Athletics are like oil and water.
Also, you might want to refer to some of the Board discussions at the time of the Fall Forfeit announcement before claiming “hindsight”.

Some numbers to chew on.
1- all schools had to deal with the COVID curveball not just good ol’ JMU. Testing costs, opt outs, Rescheduled games etc
2- 17 FCS schools have played games. These are the schools JMU trumps in money and resources. Are they Somehow more capable? More savvy?
3- 124 FBS schools have played games and JMU has a larger budget than 30% of them.

Many schools got it right while JMU sat on the sidelines and played victim.

Yeah, but none of those schools are as good at monitoring the situation as JMU. We are the kings of situation monitoring. Here's to hoping that one day, after we are all long gone, there is a Situation Monitoring Bowl. We will win every year!

JMU probably has people monitoring those who are monitoring the situation.

(11-12-2020 01:41 PM)JMUska Wrote:  I'd be down to always schedule two FBS games to double the money we make.

If we went 7-2 in the other games, we'd still make playoffs.

If we lose 3 FCS games, the team likely isn't a national title contender anyway.

Would any of us really felt cheated if our teams that travelled to EKU or the one that hosted Liberty in playoffs had missed qualifying because we played an additional FBS game that year instead of an FCS cupcake? I wouldn't really.

EDIT: Also, my post automatically counted the FBS games as losses, which we know isn't always true.

But if you go 8-1 in the other games, you're definitely not getting a top 2 seed, likely not a top 4, maybe not even top 6. I like multiple home playoff games in the quarterfinals and semis, + a better chance at a trip to Frisco, more than a 2nd I-A game..

(11-16-2020 12:48 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 01:41 PM)JMUska Wrote:  I'd be down to always schedule two FBS games to double the money we make.

If we went 7-2 in the other games, we'd still make playoffs.

If we lose 3 FCS games, the team likely isn't a national title contender anyway.

Would any of us really felt cheated if our teams that travelled to EKU or the one that hosted Liberty in playoffs had missed qualifying because we played an additional FBS game that year instead of an FCS cupcake? I wouldn't really.

EDIT: Also, my post automatically counted the FBS games as losses, which we know isn't always true.

But if you go 8-1 in the other games, you're definitely not getting a top 2 seed, likely not a top 4, maybe not even top 6. I like multiple home playoff games in the quarterfinals and semis, + a better chance at a trip to Frisco, more than a 2nd I-A game..

Everything you have stated is the truth. With that said, our path in 2004 was far more satisfying at the conclusion of each game than were the other paths taken. Certainly taking down the Bison in Fargo was the single most satisfying game, and the home game against Weber was a nail biter the following year, but the road we had to take to Chattanooga will forever be hard to beat. I could care less about scheduling an easy path to the championship game.

(11-15-2020 12:14 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  If the UNC game had been cancelled due to COVID, would we be getting the $500K? I haven't seen the contract, but I doubt it mentioned a pandemic when signed a few years ago. I am not sure if COVID is included under the more general "act of God" clauses that most contracts have.

It is important to note that JMU had shut down the campus less than two weeks before that game, and the team couldn't do any activities until Sept 16 (Wednesday before the game). Safe to say we would have cancelled that game, and since it was "our fault" we wouldn't get paid anyway. We would still have the deficit, still have $0 of the $500k, still have no games in Fall, but I guess we would have shown resolve and savvy decision making to go after that cash money. Even if we had that $500k, how much of it would have gone into increased testing for the team leading up to that game? Even if every penny was accounted for in Revenue, the athletic department is still facing a $5M shortfall, which explains the recent fundraising effort that is being maligned on these boards.

You may not agree with the administration's efforts in this case, but I would hope you agree that if JMU is left holding the deficit end of the budget stick, it will be our student athletes that will ultimately suffer. I don't want to see JMU cutting tennis, golf, or cross country as a way to pare down expenses (even though the loss of tuition dollars from those partial scholarships would outweigh any benefits, but that's a different story). I was a student in 2006 when several sports were cut and felt powerless to help my classmates. I am a proud grad now in 2020, and have the means to help current Dukes, and all it costs me is $100 (on ticket for each stadium). Do I agree with the administration at every step and turn? No. I think we should be in FBS. But do I hate the Bournes and Algers, et al. more than I love my Dukes? Hell no. Support the teams when and if you can and you can still fax Bourne a picture of your middle finger or butt or whatever you want.

As much disdain that was circulating around JMU publicly and socially in September, can you imagine if we decided to actually play football too? People would have lost their minds. There was enough disagreement about JMU holding classes in Harrisonburg.

(11-16-2020 04:40 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:48 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 01:41 PM)JMUska Wrote:  I'd be down to always schedule two FBS games to double the money we make.

If we went 7-2 in the other games, we'd still make playoffs.

If we lose 3 FCS games, the team likely isn't a national title contender anyway.

Would any of us really felt cheated if our teams that travelled to EKU or the one that hosted Liberty in playoffs had missed qualifying because we played an additional FBS game that year instead of an FCS cupcake? I wouldn't really.

EDIT: Also, my post automatically counted the FBS games as losses, which we know isn't always true.

But if you go 8-1 in the other games, you're definitely not getting a top 2 seed, likely not a top 4, maybe not even top 6. I like multiple home playoff games in the quarterfinals and semis, + a better chance at a trip to Frisco, more than a 2nd I-A game..

Everything you have stated is the truth. With that said, our path in 2004 was far more satisfying at the conclusion of each game than were the other paths taken. Certainly taking down the Bison in Fargo was the single most satisfying game, and the home game against Weber was a nail biter the following year, but the road we had to take to Chattanooga will forever be hard to beat. I could care less about scheduling an easy path to the championship game.

I don’t think this conversation is about scheduling an easy path. What we are discussing is the entertainment value of watching JMU football as fans. The home playoff games have become the most entertaining games of the season in recent years and we can all get to them. Going to Fargo and winning was an incredible experience but a once in a lifetime one. If I go there every year, it becomes a different experience.

If JMU remains FCS, the goal is to make and win in the playoffs along with hosting as many games as possible. 2004s playoff journey is a great memory too and was incredibly rewarding. It was JMUs first NC. The program had less than a handful of playoff wins prior to that season. I feel these things added to the experience of that run. If it happens again, will it mean as much?

If JMU remains FCS, then giving up home playoff games to play an additional FBS game is a bad trade off IMO.

(11-16-2020 04:40 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:48 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 01:41 PM)JMUska Wrote:  I'd be down to always schedule two FBS games to double the money we make.

If we went 7-2 in the other games, we'd still make playoffs.

If we lose 3 FCS games, the team likely isn't a national title contender anyway.

Would any of us really felt cheated if our teams that travelled to EKU or the one that hosted Liberty in playoffs had missed qualifying because we played an additional FBS game that year instead of an FCS cupcake? I wouldn't really.

EDIT: Also, my post automatically counted the FBS games as losses, which we know isn't always true.

But if you go 8-1 in the other games, you're definitely not getting a top 2 seed, likely not a top 4, maybe not even top 6. I like multiple home playoff games in the quarterfinals and semis, + a better chance at a trip to Frisco, more than a 2nd I-A game..

Everything you have stated is the truth. With that said, our path in 2004 was far more satisfying at the conclusion of each game than were the other paths taken. Certainly taking down the Bison in Fargo was the single most satisfying game, and the home game against Weber was a nail biter the following year, but the road we had to take to Chattanooga will forever be hard to beat. I could care less about scheduling an easy path to the championship game.

Winning 3 straight road football games & winning the NC had never happened before.

A great football coach once said winning three straight road playoff games & winning an NC will never happen again. And he's right..

(11-17-2020 09:32 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 04:40 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:48 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(11-12-2020 01:41 PM)JMUska Wrote:  I'd be down to always schedule two FBS games to double the money we make.

If we went 7-2 in the other games, we'd still make playoffs.

If we lose 3 FCS games, the team likely isn't a national title contender anyway.

Would any of us really felt cheated if our teams that travelled to EKU or the one that hosted Liberty in playoffs had missed qualifying because we played an additional FBS game that year instead of an FCS cupcake? I wouldn't really.

EDIT: Also, my post automatically counted the FBS games as losses, which we know isn't always true.

But if you go 8-1 in the other games, you're definitely not getting a top 2 seed, likely not a top 4, maybe not even top 6. I like multiple home playoff games in the quarterfinals and semis, + a better chance at a trip to Frisco, more than a 2nd I-A game..

Everything you have stated is the truth. With that said, our path in 2004 was far more satisfying at the conclusion of each game than were the other paths taken. Certainly taking down the Bison in Fargo was the single most satisfying game, and the home game against Weber was a nail biter the following year, but the road we had to take to Chattanooga will forever be hard to beat. I could care less about scheduling an easy path to the championship game.

I don’t think this conversation is about scheduling an easy path. What we are discussing is the entertainment value of watching JMU football as fans. The home playoff games have become the most entertaining games of the season in recent years and we can all get to them. Going to Fargo and winning was an incredible experience but a once in a lifetime one. If I go there every year, it becomes a different experience.

If JMU remains FCS, the goal is to make and win in the playoffs along with hosting as many games as possible. 2004s playoff journey is a great memory too and was incredibly rewarding. It was JMUs first NC. The program had less than a handful of playoff wins prior to that season. I feel these things added to the experience of that run. If it happens again, will it mean as much?

If JMU remains FCS, then giving up home playoff games to play an additional FBS game is a bad trade off IMO.

Yep. While JMU should move up, as long as are FCS, the bolded is true.