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Remember when Arizona was a hotspot and hospitalizations were out of control. Well, about that....

Quote:Recently, public health experts determined that a large healthcare provider was reporting an admission date for COVID-19 cases when these individuals were not actually hospitalized. The data being reported in the admission date field of the report form was actually the date the individual was seen by a healthcare provider. Because these cases were being reported with an admission date, they were being counted as hospitalized in the Hospitalization section of our data dashboard.

Data reported prior to the end of August has been corrected to remove these cases from counts displayed in the Hospitalization section of the data dashboard. As a result, the number of hospitalized cases has decreased by 2,815, primarily in Maricopa

https://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/c...n-arizona/

(10-06-2020 11:21 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

Glad to finally see the data on that.

(10-06-2020 07:16 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

What does this even mean?

What an absolutely absurd suggestion. Cali never fails to disappoint.

When you think it couldn't get more ridiculous....

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

The problem with this article is he starts off talking about whether masks are effective but then only talks about whether mask mandates are effective. It doesn’t recognize that in places like Sweden that did not have a mandate, many people still wore masks.

(10-07-2020 02:35 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

The problem with this article is he starts off talking about whether masks are effective but then only talks about whether mask mandates are effective. It doesn’t recognize that in places like Sweden that did not have a mandate, many people still wore masks.

I agree that those charts are not definitive on mask efficacy, and I didn't even read the entire article because I wasn't interested in his opinion. I was much more intrigued by my second point, which is that the curves are so similar between different places with different approaches.

The image I posted shows that Sweden's curve looked pretty much like everyone else's.

Not sure why we never hear anything about current death and hospitalization rates. Why are we still accounting for the shitshow that took place in March, when we know that the current conditions as they relate to death rates and hospitalization rates are vastly better than than they once were, and the current severity is being wildly overstated. Never mind, I know why. This chart is pretty eye opening.

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status...9749739520

(10-07-2020 02:47 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:35 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

The problem with this article is he starts off talking about whether masks are effective but then only talks about whether mask mandates are effective. It doesn’t recognize that in places like Sweden that did not have a mandate, many people still wore masks.

I agree that those charts are not definitive on mask efficacy, and I didn't even read the entire article because I wasn't interested in his opinion. I was much more intrigued by my second point, which is that the curves are so similar between different places with different approaches.

I just don’t agree that of all the things we did in response to this pandemic, nothing mattered. Maybe that’s not exactly what you meant, not sure. There were some restrictions that probably had little effect but also some that were fairly effective. Yes, all the graphs look similar, but all of the countries had varying degrees and manipulations of mostly the same type of restrictions. And no country had zero response so there is no baseline.

I also wonder about the source and how the data was presented. His tone and use of the term “hissy fit” make me think he has some slant.

(10-07-2020 03:08 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The image I posted shows that Sweden's curve looked pretty much like everyone else's.

I hear people saying Sweden didn’t do anything, but that is not true. It’s true that they did not implement some of the more contentious restrictions such as closing businesses and mandating masks. But many people still took action on their own. I think the real question is which restrictions should be mandated, and which ones should be recommendations.

(10-07-2020 03:11 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:47 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:35 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

The problem with this article is he starts off talking about whether masks are effective but then only talks about whether mask mandates are effective. It doesn’t recognize that in places like Sweden that did not have a mandate, many people still wore masks.

I agree that those charts are not definitive on mask efficacy, and I didn't even read the entire article because I wasn't interested in his opinion. I was much more intrigued by my second point, which is that the curves are so similar between different places with different approaches.

I just don’t agree that of all the things we did in response to this pandemic, nothing mattered. Maybe that’s not exactly what you meant, not sure. There were some restrictions that probably had little effect but also some that were fairly effective. Yes, all the graphs look similar, but all of the countries had varying degrees and manipulations of mostly the same type of restrictions. And no country had zero response so there is no baseline.

I also wonder about the source and how the data was presented. His tone and use of the term “hissy fit” make me think he has some slant.

I don't think that anybody is calling for us to have completely ignored the virus
(although, it might be argued that the country would be in better shape right now if we had taken that approach vs. the approach we have and still are taking). I do, however, think that based on everything we now know, an approach that focused on educating people, promoting social distancing, and protecting the nursing homes would have made a lot more sense for the country as a whole and likely would not have led to significantly more deaths.

(10-07-2020 03:21 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 03:08 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The image I posted shows that Sweden's curve looked pretty much like everyone else's.

I hear people saying Sweden didn’t do anything, but that is not true. It’s true that they did not implement some of the more contentious restrictions such as closing businesses and mandating masks. But many people still took action on their own. I think the real question is which restrictions should be mandated, and which ones should be recommendations.

I think when people say "Sweden didn't do anything" they are either ignorant or implying that they didn't have nearly the same government-mandated restrictions that we did. Honestly, I think many people here would have made the same behavioral modifications (NBA, for example), without government force.

Regardless, what's in the past is in the past, the question is how can we learn and move forward. I think it's time to let businesses open fully. Open the schools fully. And, let individuals determine what measures they need to take to protect themselves.

(10-07-2020 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 03:11 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:47 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:35 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 01:45 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/ma...009481/amp

Two things are interesting in these charts.

1. The obvious questions about mask
2. Maybe more interesting, but not discussed in the article, is that all of these curves look similar. As was posited by the Israeli scientist, whose name escapes me, early in the pandemic, it seems that every place follows the same pattern regardless of what strategies are used which seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what we do, the virus still runs its course.

The problem with this article is he starts off talking about whether masks are effective but then only talks about whether mask mandates are effective. It doesn’t recognize that in places like Sweden that did not have a mandate, many people still wore masks.

I agree that those charts are not definitive on mask efficacy, and I didn't even read the entire article because I wasn't interested in his opinion. I was much more intrigued by my second point, which is that the curves are so similar between different places with different approaches.

I just don’t agree that of all the things we did in response to this pandemic, nothing mattered. Maybe that’s not exactly what you meant, not sure. There were some restrictions that probably had little effect but also some that were fairly effective. Yes, all the graphs look similar, but all of the countries had varying degrees and manipulations of mostly the same type of restrictions. And no country had zero response so there is no baseline.

I also wonder about the source and how the data was presented. His tone and use of the term “hissy fit” make me think he has some slant.

I don't think that anybody is calling for us to have completely ignored the virus
(although, it might be argued that the country would be in better shape right now if we had taken that approach vs. the approach we have and still are taking). I do, however, think that based on everything we now know, an approach that focused on educating people, promoting social distancing, and protecting the nursing homes would have made a lot more sense for the country as a whole and likely would not have led to significantly more deaths.

I can agree with that. Experts disagreed and we failed on the messaging. We know a little more now. We couldn’t see 20/20 in 2020 (just made that up). Or if you prefer, hindsight is 20/20.

(10-07-2020 03:30 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 03:21 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 03:08 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The image I posted shows that Sweden's curve looked pretty much like everyone else's.

I hear people saying Sweden didn’t do anything, but that is not true. It’s true that they did not implement some of the more contentious restrictions such as closing businesses and mandating masks. But many people still took action on their own. I think the real question is which restrictions should be mandated, and which ones should be recommendations.

I think when people say "Sweden didn't do anything" they are either ignorant or implying that they didn't have nearly the same government-mandated restrictions that we did. Honestly, I think many people here would have made the same behavioral modifications (NBA, for example), without government force.

Regardless, what's in the past is in the past, the question is how can we learn and move forward. I think it's time to let businesses open fully. Open the schools fully. And, let individuals determine what measures they need to take to protect themselves.

And for the love of all things good, share all of the data with the public. Stop only promoting the scary data, and start giving people a clear picture of what this thing looks like in real time.

In my conservative mind the absolute worst thing the Trump administration did in this entire mess was his failure to assemble a group from diverse disciplines and perspectives to drive the national discussion. His failure to pull that group together left us listening to the opinions of one "expert", and Fauci wasn't up to that challenge, and that really isn't a shot at Fauci, no one person could have added the diversity of thought needed to take all of the nuance into account, digest it, and then package it for the public. This was a communications disaster from Team Trump.

(10-06-2020 08:30 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:16 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

What does this even mean?

It means you have to wear your mask at all times to ensure that when you catch COVID people won't mock you and yell at you.

And the Bee responds...

https://babylonbee.com/news/california-m...r-removed/

(10-08-2020 07:18 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 08:30 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 07:16 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

What does this even mean?

It means you have to wear your mask at all times to ensure that when you catch COVID people won't mock you and yell at you.

And the Bee responds...

https://babylonbee.com/news/california-m...r-removed/

Sounds about right.

An interesting statistical look at how mask use has affected infection rates by county.

https://rationalground.com/interactive-t...-covid-19/