Remove Liberty and add these 3 schools.

NC A&T
Delaware
Chattanooga

NC A&T as the face of MEAC.
Delaware will follow JMU out of the door.
Chattanooga will renew the rivalry games with App, State and Georgia Southern. Chattanooga is weakened without App. State and Georgia Southern in the SoCon.

(06-30-2020 10:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Remove Liberty and add these 3 schools.

NC A&T
Delaware
Chattanooga

NC A&T as the face of MEAC.
Delaware will follow JMU out of the door.
Chattanooga will renew the rivalry games with App, State and Georgia Southern. Chattanooga is weakened without App. State and Georgia Southern in the SoCon.

Ga. Southern and App State don't miss Chattanooga, the school. It was fun winning FCS titles there, though.

The key to making it work is to invite at least 9 schools - at that point someone has to open the door to new members, which creates openings for the remaining MEAC members.

If the new conference is Marshall, Old Dominion, Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Appalachian State, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina, that leaves 9 in Conference USA and 6 in the Sun Belt. Conference USA then invites Texas State, which pushes the Sun Belt down to 5 schools.

The Sun Belt may invite New Mexico State for football only again to get through the transition, but even if they don't, New Mexico State (and other independents) just got gifted a bunch of new programs in need of games. I would expect Eastern Kentucky, Missouri State, Sam Houston State, and Lamar to be in the running. If New Mexico State isn't going to be permanent, I could see Stephen F. Austin State getting the call as well.

Missouri State leaving the MVC (and MVFC) opens the door for Murray State to leave the OVC. Eastern Kentucky and Murray State are replaced by Bellarmine and North Alabama. The Atlantic Sun then takes two MEAC schools.

I don't know about the shell idea but I think the ideal size is 10 all sport members.

This way BB can be double round robin and with Charlotte and ODU in there would have a chance at being at least a good 1 bid league.

I think both Georgia schools make sense in it since its such a big state and they are in two totally different regions.

App also has to be included for a chance at a decent FB TV deal.

(07-01-2020 07:21 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't know about the shell idea but I think the ideal size is 10 all sport members.

This way BB can be double round robin and with Charlotte and ODU in there would have a chance at being at least a good 1 bid league.

I think both Georgia schools make sense in it since its such a big state and they are in two totally different regions.

App also has to be included for a chance at a decent FB TV deal.

Georgia State deserves to be on that list with ODU and Charlttr. They've made it to the Tournament two or three times since ODU or Charlotte last made it and have won a Tournament game in the last five years (remember the coach falling off his stool).

(07-01-2020 07:32 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:21 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't know about the shell idea but I think the ideal size is 10 all sport members.

This way BB can be double round robin and with Charlotte and ODU in there would have a chance at being at least a good 1 bid league.

I think both Georgia schools make sense in it since its such a big state and they are in two totally different regions.

App also has to be included for a chance at a decent FB TV deal.

Georgia State deserves to be on that list with ODU and Charlttr. They've made it to the Tournament two or three times since ODU or Charlotte last made it and have won a Tournament game in the last five years (remember the coach falling off his stool).

Definitely Georgia State with the market and new FB facilities.

With a smaller 10 team conference it won't take as many good basketball schools to make it viable. When you have 14 as the current CUSA configuration does you need like 6 of them to be very good to have a shot at a second bid.

Four good ones in basketball are probably enough in a 10 team configuration.

(06-30-2020 06:59 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 02:26 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

Everybody hates Coastal Carolina. And seems to forget that the very schools on this list, except for JMU, rejected Liberty even though Liberty offered C-USA and the SB millions of bucks to join.

The other quibble I have is that I think WKU and MTSU might want to go with the Alabama schools, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State rather than go with an east coast league. Meanwhile, I think schools that recruit Florida heavily like Marshall and App State would welcome the opportunity to continue/begin sharing conference with the Miami area schools. If course I could be dead wrong on this part.

Overall, I'm a proponent of this idea. I'd like my App State team to play more regionally against these schools in all sports and save games vs. southern schools in the central time zone for non conference play. There would be some big questions, though.

Are ten schools willing and able to pay the costs of exit fees and for the rights to the MEAC?

Can an existing league suddenly start sponsoring FBS football under current NCAA rules?

What hurdles would a MEAC that sponsors FBS have to overcome in order to get G5-level CFP payouts and NY6 access? The CFP contract specifically identifies only the existing G5 conferences as eligible for said payouts and NY6 bowl bids, so something would have to change.

What bowl tie ins could the "new" league get? (Part of the answer would be that the Sun Belt and C-USA would lose some tie ins due to a drop in membership numbers.)

What kind of media rights deal would this league be able to get?

All this may be moot anyway. Va. State may join the league, bringing in an all-important sixth baseball member and seventh football member. The NEC and other leagues may not invite Del. State, the ASUN may not invite the southern MEAC schools because of a desire to avoid being deemed responsible for killing off an HBCU conference, and Howard may commit to helping keep the conference it helped found together. Completely possible.

EDIT: Well, some of our answers about what may happen to the MEAC have come. Va. State is not joining, but Delaware State is not leaving. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

clt doesn’t want Charlotte in a conference with appy. Academics matter.

agreed. UNCC is withering on the vine after tabling expansion of the smallest stadium in FBS due to lack of demand. The best thing for UNCC would be to share conference with App, which would give them their biggest home game in history every two years. UNCC brings nothing for App except an easy away game to go to. App basketball has already passed UNCC as shown by our game last year.

Also, academics matter.

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

I don't see how JMU deserves this. They should have accepted an invite to the SBC like App State did and continue to win instead of hiding out in a FCS conference.

Liberty should get a conference at some point but not one that is built to compete with the AAC. Maybe an invite to the SBC for FB only if they become desperate.

WKU/MTSU have more interest in being in a conference with LaTech, SoMiss and UAB I believe than schools in Virginia. More tradition with LaTech, SoMiss and UAB and part of their greater mid south region.

(07-01-2020 07:45 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 06:59 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 02:26 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

Everybody hates Coastal Carolina. And seems to forget that the very schools on this list, except for JMU, rejected Liberty even though Liberty offered C-USA and the SB millions of bucks to join.

The other quibble I have is that I think WKU and MTSU might want to go with the Alabama schools, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State rather than go with an east coast league. Meanwhile, I think schools that recruit Florida heavily like Marshall and App State would welcome the opportunity to continue/begin sharing conference with the Miami area schools. If course I could be dead wrong on this part.

Overall, I'm a proponent of this idea. I'd like my App State team to play more regionally against these schools in all sports and save games vs. southern schools in the central time zone for non conference play. There would be some big questions, though.

Are ten schools willing and able to pay the costs of exit fees and for the rights to the MEAC?

Can an existing league suddenly start sponsoring FBS football under current NCAA rules?

What hurdles would a MEAC that sponsors FBS have to overcome in order to get G5-level CFP payouts and NY6 access? The CFP contract specifically identifies only the existing G5 conferences as eligible for said payouts and NY6 bowl bids, so something would have to change.

What bowl tie ins could the "new" league get? (Part of the answer would be that the Sun Belt and C-USA would lose some tie ins due to a drop in membership numbers.)

What kind of media rights deal would this league be able to get?

All this may be moot anyway. Va. State may join the league, bringing in an all-important sixth baseball member and seventh football member. The NEC and other leagues may not invite Del. State, the ASUN may not invite the southern MEAC schools because of a desire to avoid being deemed responsible for killing off an HBCU conference, and Howard may commit to helping keep the conference it helped found together. Completely possible.

EDIT: Well, some of our answers about what may happen to the MEAC have come. Va. State is not joining, but Delaware State is not leaving. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

clt doesn’t want Charlotte in a conference with appy. Academics matter.

agreed. UNCC is withering on the vine after tabling expansion of the smallest stadium in FBS due to lack of demand. The best thing for UNCC would be to share conference with App, which would give them their biggest home game in history every two years. UNCC brings nothing for App except an easy away game to go to. App basketball has already passed UNCC as shown by our game last year.

Also, academics matter.

App wouldn't be in the conversation 20 years ago but they've earned their way in with football just like Marshall did the decade before that.

(07-01-2020 07:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:45 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 06:59 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 02:26 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

Everybody hates Coastal Carolina. And seems to forget that the very schools on this list, except for JMU, rejected Liberty even though Liberty offered C-USA and the SB millions of bucks to join.

The other quibble I have is that I think WKU and MTSU might want to go with the Alabama schools, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State rather than go with an east coast league. Meanwhile, I think schools that recruit Florida heavily like Marshall and App State would welcome the opportunity to continue/begin sharing conference with the Miami area schools. If course I could be dead wrong on this part.

Overall, I'm a proponent of this idea. I'd like my App State team to play more regionally against these schools in all sports and save games vs. southern schools in the central time zone for non conference play. There would be some big questions, though.

Are ten schools willing and able to pay the costs of exit fees and for the rights to the MEAC?

Can an existing league suddenly start sponsoring FBS football under current NCAA rules?

What hurdles would a MEAC that sponsors FBS have to overcome in order to get G5-level CFP payouts and NY6 access? The CFP contract specifically identifies only the existing G5 conferences as eligible for said payouts and NY6 bowl bids, so something would have to change.

What bowl tie ins could the "new" league get? (Part of the answer would be that the Sun Belt and C-USA would lose some tie ins due to a drop in membership numbers.)

What kind of media rights deal would this league be able to get?

All this may be moot anyway. Va. State may join the league, bringing in an all-important sixth baseball member and seventh football member. The NEC and other leagues may not invite Del. State, the ASUN may not invite the southern MEAC schools because of a desire to avoid being deemed responsible for killing off an HBCU conference, and Howard may commit to helping keep the conference it helped found together. Completely possible.

EDIT: Well, some of our answers about what may happen to the MEAC have come. Va. State is not joining, but Delaware State is not leaving. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.

clt doesn’t want Charlotte in a conference with appy. Academics matter.

agreed. UNCC is withering on the vine after tabling expansion of the smallest stadium in FBS due to lack of demand. The best thing for UNCC would be to share conference with App, which would give them their biggest home game in history every two years. UNCC brings nothing for App except an easy away game to go to. App basketball has already passed UNCC as shown by our game last year.

Also, academics matter.

App wouldn't be in the conversation 20 years ago but they've earned their way in with football just like Marshall did the decade before that.

That's likely true, but none of the schools except for Marshall would be "in the conversation" 20 years ago. 3 didn't have football and the other 6 were in FCS.

(06-30-2020 10:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Remove Liberty and add these 3 schools.

NC A&T
Delaware
Chattanooga

NC A&T as the face of MEAC.
Delaware will follow JMU out of the door.
Chattanooga will renew the rivalry games with App, State and Georgia Southern. Chattanooga is weakened without App. State and Georgia Southern in the SoCon.

No David. No. No. No.

Say it with me “No more FCS call ups unless an existing conference is desperate.”

JMU is a special case because they are already outspending probably a dozen FBS programs.

(07-01-2020 07:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

I don't see how JMU deserves this. They should have accepted an invite to the SBC like App State did and continue to win instead of hiding out in a FCS conference.

I'd love to have James Madison in the lineup. They're in the footprint, they have nice facilities and they averaged over 22K in football (in a 25K seat stadium). We need schools who have fan support.

(07-01-2020 08:30 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

I don't see how JMU deserves this. They should have accepted an invite to the SBC like App State did and continue to win instead of hiding out in a FCS conference.

I'd love to have James Madison in the lineup. They're in the footprint, they have nice facilities and they averaged over 22K in football. We need schools who have fan support.

Agreed! JMU would be a nice addition that brings a lot of fan support. ODU can put butts in seats with a decent team, and I really think Charlotte has the potential to start bringing in crowds. App State brings 20K+ thousand and a Top 25 ranking, but would they be willing to leave the Sun Belt? I’d like to keep WKU and ditch MTSU in favor of Coastal Carolina. Don’t know much about Liberty and would love to have both Georgia schools.

(07-01-2020 08:30 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

I don't see how JMU deserves this. They should have accepted an invite to the SBC like App State did and continue to win instead of hiding out in a FCS conference.

I'd love to have James Madison in the lineup. They're in the footprint, they have nice facilities and they averaged over 22K in football (in a 25K seat stadium). We need schools who have fan support.

I agree. JMU would fit right in.

As for Liberty, I'll repeat what I said about C-USA and Sun Belt schools already having rejected them to be in their respective conferences even though LU offered caseloads of cash to join. More importantly, I don't even think Liberty would even be interested in joining an FBS conference short of a P5 or AAC invitation. They have built some great schedules for their fans as an independent. I think they're very happy with independence.

A ten team league would be ideal lineup for App State. 12-14 teams just means the money had to be split more ways. Repeating what I said earlier, I'd want these schools:

South
FIU
FAU
Ga. Southern
Ga. State
Coastal Carolina

North
Charlotte
App State
ODU
JMU
Marshall

Annual interdivision matchups: FIU vs. Marshall; FAU vs. JMU; Ga. Southern vs. App State; Ga. State vs. Charlotte; Coastal vs. ODU

I would miss certain Sun Belt teams, namely Troy, Arkansas State, and Louisiana. And I wouldn't mind being in a conference with UAB or Southern Miss. But that is what non-conference games are for. Annual games against teams within the region make way more sense for drawing good home game attendance, and they make way, way more sense for basketball and non revenue sports.

(07-01-2020 09:03 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:30 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

I don't see how JMU deserves this. They should have accepted an invite to the SBC like App State did and continue to win instead of hiding out in a FCS conference.

I'd love to have James Madison in the lineup. They're in the footprint, they have nice facilities and they averaged over 22K in football (in a 25K seat stadium). We need schools who have fan support.

I agree. JMU would fit right in.

As for Liberty, I'll repeat what I said about C-USA and Sun Belt schools already having rejected them to be in their respective conferences even though LU offered caseloads of cash to join. More importantly, I don't even think Liberty would even be interested in joining an FBS conference short of a P5 or AAC invitation. They have built some great schedules for their fans as an independent. I think they're very happy with independence.

A ten team league would be ideal lineup for App State. 12-14 teams just means the money had to be split more ways. Repeating what I said earlier, I'd want these schools:

South
FIU
FAU
Ga. Southern
Ga. State
Coastal Carolina

North
Charlotte
App State
ODU
JMU
Marshall

Annual interdivision matchups: FIU vs. Marshall; FAU vs. JMU; Ga. Southern vs. App State; Ga. State vs. Charlotte; Coastal vs. ODU

I would miss certain Sun Belt teams, namely Troy, Arkansas State, and Louisiana. And I wouldn't mind being in a conference with UAB or Southern Miss. But that is what non-conference games are for. Annual games against teams within the region make way more sense for drawing good home game attendance, and they make way, way more sense for basketball and non revenue sports.

I like this a lot. My only argument is that FIU doesn’t bring anything to the table athletically. You could substitute in WKU for FIU and then do away with your divisions to make sure you get the best 2 teams in the conference championship.

Regarding Liberty, I remember when they offered $25 million to join CUSA and was turned down. However, they have the cash to make something like this a reality, and I would imagine being in a conference with an NCAA auto-bid along with access bowl opportunities would outweigh what they have now. I don’t care for them one way or another, just pointing out that money talks in a situation like this.

This Shell idea should be looked at for exactly what its name says. using the the MEAC to move pieces around the board and get more of the players you want and dump a few you dont. It has its limits and still requires a kill off of either C-USA or Sun Belt, in order to have any chance at the CFP money, which no one is going to give up for several years until CFP is renegotiated. Start with 2 conferences, and end with 2 conferences, and no one in charge is complaining about the shell game. all the other challenges can be worked out.

So even if 10 member is the optimum number, 12 members will be whats required to pull this trick off for at least one of the leagues.

one example:
New MEAC or whatever name:
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU
FAU
FIU

New Other Conference:
UAB
Troy
USA
USM
Louisiana
La Tech
Arkansas St.
Rice
Texas St.
UTSA
UNT
UTEP

End result moves CCU and ULM to independent status. Sun Belt is killed off. teams are more regional, NCAA auto-bid , CFP status in place.

(06-30-2020 07:16 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  People on this board tend to talk about NCAA Tournament auto bids like they're taxi medallions. I don't think that's how it works.

You're right. Nobody really knows how the NCAA would deal with shenanigans like what is suggested in this thread.

If every member of Conference X departs and an entirely new group of schools "joins" the empty shell and adopts the Conference X name and bylaws, there's no guarantee that the NCAA (probably specifically the Division I council) would let this new Conference X group march on as if the previous group had never left.

I think it is safe to assume that this hypothetical group of new MEAC schools would not even try this unless the NCAA guaranteed them in advance that it would work the way the schools want. For that matter, if the rationale is just that the MEAC autobid is vanishing, so why not let these schools take it, then if the MEAC actually dissolves, this group of schools could simply form a new conference and ask the NCAA to give them an instant autobid based on the argument that the number of autobids would be the same as it was in the previous year. In reality it's a new conference and they need the NCAA's permission to have the autobid anyway, so why not be upfront about it instead of trying to fool the NCAA with a magic trick.

(07-01-2020 10:37 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  This Shell idea should be looked at for exactly what its name says. using the the MEAC to move pieces around the board and get more of the players you want and dump a few you dont. It has its limits and still requires a kill off of either C-USA or Sun Belt, in order to have any chance at the CFP money, which no one is going to give up for several years until CFP is renegotiated. Start with 2 conferences, and end with 2 conferences, and no one in charge is complaining about the shell game. all the other challenges can be worked out.

So even if 10 member is the optimum number, 12 members will be whats required to pull this trick off for at least one of the leagues.

one example:
New MEAC or whatever name:
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU
FAU
FIU

New Other Conference:
UAB
Troy
USA
USM
Louisiana
La Tech
Arkansas St.
Rice
Texas St.
UTSA
UNT
UTEP

End result moves CCU and ULM to independent status. Sun Belt is killed off. teams are more regional, NCAA auto-bid , CFP status in place.

You and I are about 90% in agreement.

The question I'd want to someone to shed light on is whether WKU and MTSU would prefer to be in an east coast league or prefer to be with schools in Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana. I know WKU likes playing Marshall and recruiting in Florida, but I don't know whether they'd prefer playing East coast vs. Gulf coast. I don't have a clue what MTSU would want.

My hunch is that "100 Miles of Hate" would want to be with the Gulf coast, leading the east coast league to include Coastal and JMU.

Where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

Your core group in a move to the MEAC would be Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, App St, Georgia St, and Georgia Southern—that’s 6

Your options for the last 4 spots are:

UAB
WKU
MTSU
FAU
FIU
CCU
JMU
Liberty

UAB/MTSU/WKU are probably a package deal

(07-01-2020 07:32 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 07:21 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't know about the shell idea but I think the ideal size is 10 all sport members.

This way BB can be double round robin and with Charlotte and ODU in there would have a chance at being at least a good 1 bid league.

I think both Georgia schools make sense in it since its such a big state and they are in two totally different regions.

App also has to be included for a chance at a decent FB TV deal.

Georgia State deserves to be on that list with ODU and Charlttr. They've made it to the Tournament two or three times since ODU or Charlotte last made it and have won a Tournament game in the last five years (remember the coach falling off his stool).

We made the tournament last year.