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Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.
06-30-2020 01:56 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.
Everybody hates Coastal Carolina. And seems to forget that the very schools on this list, except for JMU, rejected Liberty even though Liberty offered C-USA and the SB millions of bucks to join.

The other quibble I have is that I think WKU and MTSU might want to go with the Alabama schools, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State rather than go with an east coast league. Meanwhile, I think schools that recruit Florida heavily like Marshall and App State would welcome the opportunity to continue/begin sharing conference with the Miami area schools. If course I could be dead wrong on this part.

Overall, I'm a proponent of this idea. I'd like my App State team to play more regionally against these schools in all sports and save games vs. southern schools in the central time zone for non conference play. There would be some big questions, though.

Are ten schools willing and able to pay the costs of exit fees and for the rights to the MEAC?

Can an existing league suddenly start sponsoring FBS football under current NCAA rules?

What hurdles would a MEAC that sponsors FBS have to overcome in order to get G5-level CFP payouts and NY6 access? The CFP contract specifically identifies only the existing G5 conferences as eligible for said payouts and NY6 bowl bids, so something would have to change.

What bowl tie ins could the "new" league get? (Part of the answer would be that the Sun Belt and C-USA would lose some tie ins due to a drop in membership numbers.)

What kind of media rights deal would this league be able to get?

All this may be moot anyway. Va. State may join the league, bringing in an all-important sixth baseball member and seventh football member. The NEC and other leagues may not invite Del. State, the ASUN may not invite the southern MEAC schools because of a desire to avoid being deemed responsible for killing off an HBCU conference, and Howard may commit to helping keep the conference it helped found together. Completely possible.

EDIT: Well, some of our answers about what may happen to the MEAC have come. Va. State is not joining, but Delaware State is not leaving. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 02:36 PM by Michael in Raleigh.)
06-30-2020 02:26 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
While this could be an "airport meeting" conference, since none of the schools would require the cooperation of fellow CUSA or SBC schools to make it happen ...

... it seems like there would have to be a greater level of desire among the CUSA East members here, IIRC that CUSA has a steeper exit fee. What are the exit fees of the two conferences?

Also, note that the minimum size is 8, but that is the size to petition to be an FBS conference, which is a prerequisite to being able to invite JMU up, so an 8 school version would have to omit JMU and one more.
06-30-2020 02:27 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.

It's a bit crazy, yes, but crazier things have happened. Liberty being included in this group is crazier, unless they're the one buying the conference and letting everyone else in for free.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 02:37 PM by Nerdlinger.)
06-30-2020 02:36 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 02:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  While this could be an "airport meeting" conference, since none of the schools would require the cooperation of fellow CUSA or SBC schools to make it happen ...

... it seems like there would have to be a greater level of desire among the CUSA East members here, IIRC that CUSA has a steeper exit fee. What are the exit fees of the two conferences?

Also, note that the minimum size is 8, but that is the size to petition to be an FBS conference, which is a prerequisite to being able to invite JMU up, so an 8 school version would have to omit JMU and one more.

Well, CUSA exit fees are based off of revenues of the upcoming year. If it happened very quickly and COVID crashes the 2020-21 athletic season then the fees would be cheap. Normally 3-4 million. Then we'd likely have to wait to negotiate into the next CFP contract. Not very likely to happen but not out of the question. Maybe we could get Liberty to bankroll the whole thing.
06-30-2020 02:45 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
I included Liberty because they might potentially bankroll the endeavor.

I tossed out 10 schools because I think that’s an optimal size—you could easily swap around and toss UAB, CCU, FAU, and/or FIU in the mix or explore a 12 member line up.

Any existing MEAC media deals would likely be null as they are for FCS level play so they’d be free to negotiate their own deal. If they deal with ESPN I’m sure ESPN would cut them into some of their bowls.

CFP revenue and NY6 access would be on pause until about 2026 when the CFP gets renewed.
06-30-2020 04:37 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 02:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  While this could be an "airport meeting" conference, since none of the schools would require the cooperation of fellow CUSA or SBC schools to make it happen ...

... it seems like there would have to be a greater level of desire among the CUSA East members here, IIRC that CUSA has a steeper exit fee. What are the exit fees of the two conferences?

Also, note that the minimum size is 8, but that is the size to petition to be an FBS conference, which is a prerequisite to being able to invite JMU up, so an 8 school version would have to omit JMU and one more.

My question is, if these schools wanted to do this, why do they need the name "MEAC" to do it? The fact that there used to be an FCS or FBS conference who would be willing to sell the rights to their name seems somewhat irrelevant. They could just as easily buy the name "Big 8" from the current Big XII who may still own it. How is that different from a conference which has lost all his members?
06-30-2020 06:15 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 06:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 02:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  While this could be an "airport meeting" conference, since none of the schools would require the cooperation of fellow CUSA or SBC schools to make it happen ...

... it seems like there would have to be a greater level of desire among the CUSA East members here, IIRC that CUSA has a steeper exit fee. What are the exit fees of the two conferences?

Also, note that the minimum size is 8, but that is the size to petition to be an FBS conference, which is a prerequisite to being able to invite JMU up, so an 8 school version would have to omit JMU and one more.

My question is, if these schools wanted to do this, why do they need the name "MEAC" to do it? The fact that there used to be an FCS or FBS conference who would be willing to sell the rights to their name seems somewhat irrelevant. They could just as easily buy the name "Big 8" from the current Big XII who may still own it. How is that different from a conference which has lost all his members?

I think it's the fact that by buying out the MEAC, the number of NCAAT autobids remains the same.
06-30-2020 06:26 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
Would this be like the AAC schools taking over the Big East and changing the name?
06-30-2020 06:37 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 06:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  My question is, if these schools wanted to do this, why do they need the name "MEAC" to do it?

They don't need the MEAC name, they need the MEAC record of continuity in sponsoring NCAA Division 1 Basketball for 8 or more years and MEAC's entry into the Division 1 legislation as a Core Conference. Just like the "old" Big East become the America, the name of the organization is not the issue, it's the charter that they need.

SO the former members would "invite them in" subject to an entry fee, then vote to distribute the current assets of the conference among the incumbent members, and then leave, taking the money with them.

And now the new members can call it whatever they want to, it's a long established NCAA custom that when an existing conference elects to change their name, they just enter the new name but nothing else changes.

Quote:How is that different from a conference which has lost all his members?

Because as of now they are an autobid NCAA tournament multiple sport conference, and if they drop below the requirements for that, will continue to be for a two year grace period.

This is a bit more extreme than the WAC, but not much ... it was to avoid killing the WAC that they changed the continuity rules, so it is no longer continuity of schools playing together but is now simply continuity of maintaining status as a Division 1 multi-sport conference.

(Single sport conferences only need two years for continuity, but single sport conferences are only allowed if less than half of the division sponsors the sport, which rules out Basketball as that is mandatory for full Division 1 status.)

This only handles Tourney access, it doesn't get an autobid for any other sport that the MEAC doesn't have an autobid for now, and doesn't do anything about CFP participation, which is a contract with the bowls and the media partners.

Therefore, ideally they'd want to wait until the CFP renegotiation is closer, so they'd actually want the MEAC to stagger on for another couple of years. The FBS conference would want to be formed at the time that negotiation for the new CFP begins, because the existing Go5 would have bloody little leverage keeping them out of the "Group of 6" when whinging about exclusion and threatening political or legal fights over restraint of trade is part of how they were able to negotiate their share of the CFP.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020 06:52 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-30-2020 06:48 PM
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ghostofclt! Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 02:26 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(06-30-2020 01:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the MEAC fails, and it very well could, sending members across a few FCS leagues while others drop to D2, would members of the SBC/C-USA consider buying the conference’s shell to create a new, geographically compact, FBS conference?

Something like this:

JMU
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Charlotte
App St
Georgia St
Georgia Southern
WKU
MTSU

The MEAC schools could potentially benefit from this reshuffle because as the impacted FBS conferences restock from FCS conferences opportunities could open up for them.
Everybody hates Coastal Carolina. And seems to forget that the very schools on this list, except for JMU, rejected Liberty even though Liberty offered C-USA and the SB millions of bucks to join.

The other quibble I have is that I think WKU and MTSU might want to go with the Alabama schools, Southern Miss, and Arkansas State rather than go with an east coast league. Meanwhile, I think schools that recruit Florida heavily like Marshall and App State would welcome the opportunity to continue/begin sharing conference with the Miami area schools. If course I could be dead wrong on this part.

Overall, I'm a proponent of this idea. I'd like my App State team to play more regionally against these schools in all sports and save games vs. southern schools in the central time zone for non conference play. There would be some big questions, though.

Are ten schools willing and able to pay the costs of exit fees and for the rights to the MEAC?

Can an existing league suddenly start sponsoring FBS football under current NCAA rules?

What hurdles would a MEAC that sponsors FBS have to overcome in order to get G5-level CFP payouts and NY6 access? The CFP contract specifically identifies only the existing G5 conferences as eligible for said payouts and NY6 bowl bids, so something would have to change.

What bowl tie ins could the "new" league get? (Part of the answer would be that the Sun Belt and C-USA would lose some tie ins due to a drop in membership numbers.)

What kind of media rights deal would this league be able to get?

All this may be moot anyway. Va. State may join the league, bringing in an all-important sixth baseball member and seventh football member. The NEC and other leagues may not invite Del. State, the ASUN may not invite the southern MEAC schools because of a desire to avoid being deemed responsible for killing off an HBCU conference, and Howard may commit to helping keep the conference it helped found together. Completely possible.

EDIT: Well, some of our answers about what may happen to the MEAC have come. Va. State is not joining, but Delaware State is not leaving. It'll be interesting to see where things go from here.


clt doesn’t want Charlotte in a conference with appy. Academics matter.
06-30-2020 06:59 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 06:59 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote:  clt doesn’t want Charlotte in a conference with appy. Academics matter.

... said the person who exclusively speaks of himself in the 3rd person.
06-30-2020 07:03 PM
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Inkblot Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
People on this board tend to talk about NCAA Tournament auto bids like they're taxi medallions. I don't think that's how it works.
06-30-2020 07:16 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 07:16 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  People on this board tend to talk about NCAA Tournament auto bids like they're taxi medallions. I don't think that's how it works.

They certainly are not like taxi medallions ... taxi medallions can change hands, autobid status is associated with a specific Division 1 core multi-sport conference that has met certain conditions, and continues to meet those conditions.

What is bizarre, but until and unless the NCAA in its infinite(simal?) wisdom change the rule is the rule, is that the identity of the members doesn't matter any more.

Before 2011, continuity was seven or more schools that had played each other annually over a certain number of years.

In 2011, under the old rule, the WAC would have had to dissolve. They had too many schools leaving and not enough schools coming in from the same conference.

So they scrapped the old rule and made it eight years of continuity in the conference meeting the multi-sport and NCAA participation-eligibility requirements.

So now if all the teams leave a conference and a whole new set of teams come in, it's still continuity as long as they meet the multi-sport and tournament eligibility rules both before and after the complete turnover.
06-30-2020 07:30 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 07:16 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  People on this board tend to talk about NCAA Tournament auto bids like they're taxi medallions. I don't think that's how it works.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but I've had a ride in a taxi only three or four times in my life, mainly because the closest I've ever lived to a large city is an Indianapolis suburb, i.e., not exactly New York or Chicago. I don't understand the simile. Can you spell it out for me?
06-30-2020 07:42 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
Cities issue a finite number of taxi medallions—no medallion and you can’t legally operate a cab.
06-30-2020 08:00 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 08:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Cities issue a finite number of taxi medallions—no medallion and you can’t legally operate a cab.

04-cheers

Thanks!
06-30-2020 08:46 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 08:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Cities issue a finite number of taxi medallions—no medallion and you can’t legally operate a cab.

In most places, originally they were just like business licenses, you had to prove you were a bona fide taxi company and not likely to slip a passenger a mickey to steal all of their stuff ... but what happens is a city falls behind demand in issuing new medallions, and then existing medallions start to have value independent of the company, and once taxi companies get started up based on their investment in medallions, they get quite irate if someone suggests increasing the supply of medallions to catch up with demand, which would of course kill the value of the medallions they have invested in.

So a lot like the NCAA Tourney autobids, which at once time were something you could get if you had played together with a set of schools for a while and decided you wanted to form a conference with them and have evolved into the golden tickets to get the NCAA unit and at least have a hypothetical chance to be Cinderella at the Ball and gain the fame of an underdog who made an NCAA Tourney run.
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
(06-30-2020 06:37 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Would this be like the AAC schools taking over the Big East and changing the name?

They had to change the name because they sold the name and everything else.
06-30-2020 09:10 PM
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RE: Is it crazy to suggest that C-USA/SBC members might buy the MEAC shell?
I always viewed NCAA basketball auto bids like franchises. The way the franchise rules are now it's very difficult to open up a new one, but current ones are good has long as they follow the building code irregardless of how many repairs they must make annually
06-30-2020 09:26 PM
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