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Poll: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with? (You can vote for more than one option)
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Army, Navy, or Air Force
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Boise State
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Utah State, Wyoming, UNLV, or Nevada
Other MWC school
Memphis
Cincinnati
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UCF and/or USF
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If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #41
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 08:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I can't say, because it would depend on who the Big 12 loses. Losing Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas is a lot different from losing Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, and Kansas State.

In what scenario would the Big 12 lose "Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, and Kansas State" and keep "Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas"? Any Big 12 loses scenario that involves them losing teams will involve them losing Texas, Oklahoma, or both. There is no scenario for them losing any teams and keeping Texas and Oklahoma.
06-02-2020 09:16 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 08:53 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:34 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes.

The poll is posted to a realignment board where voters have fundamental knowledge of who drives realignment and what metrics they evaluate. There is no precedence for a school of Boise State's academic status getting into a conference like the BXII, and that's before demographics (i.e. do we recruit students from Boise) are even brought up. Thus, voters took 50+ years of data on university presidents and cast their votes accordingly.

Louisville was accepted into the ACC.

Louisville is 100+ spots ahead of Boise St, in a top-50 DMA (Boise isn't top 100), and a basketball program in a different stratosphere (3 national titles, 10 final fours, top 5-10 attendance).
06-02-2020 09:34 AM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 12:19 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  I. Boise State:

I get the argument about Boise, but in reply, no other FB program in the country except BYU has had better TV ratings than Boise State.

(06-02-2020 01:28 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Those are pretty good arguments, but I think that Boise FB has had the top viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years.

This is the opposite of true.

2019
Boise: 5,175,000 regular season viewers home and away. Las Vegas Bowl 2,640,000
Memphis: 11,666,000 reg.season viewers, all in AAC-controlled games. Cotton Bowl 6,220,000
Cincinnati: 12,020,000 all season, 9,080,000 in AAC controlled games
Navy: 11, 163,000 all season, but over nine million in Army/ND (2020 ND game will be AAC inventory). Navy's bowl viewership bigger than Boise's at 3,330,000
Houston: 11,009,000. 5,569,000 in AAC controlled games bigger than Boise's total.
UCF: 9,432,000 reg season, 6,289,000 AAC controlled

Boise's Fiesta Bowl ranks third of six NY6 bowl games involving non-contract-bowl-conference teams in the CFP era.
06-02-2020 10:03 AM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #44
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 01:28 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Those are pretty good arguments, but I think that Boise FB has had the top viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years.

If Boise St. can't get into the Big 12, it's probably mostly because they're not as strong in BB/olympic sports as they are in FB, and because the Big 12 won't want any FB-only schools.

I hadn't considered the anti-LGBTQ issue. Wonder if BYU would be willing to change the objectionable policies if that would be enough to get them into a P5 conference. My guess is that more than half of BYU fans would encourage such a change. As with Catholic and Evangelical Christians, Mormon attitudes about gender & sexuality have been evolving rapidly, esp. among generations Y and Z.

Personally, I'm inclined to think that Memphis might be the top choice of the Big 12, because they are within driving distance and that the Big 12 would add at least one MWC team, probably Colorado State.

I'm from the midwest myself, originally, and just as east coast people have a preference to play east coast schools, midwesterners tend to prefer watching games vs. midwestern opponents.

If I had attended Baylor or Kansas - - and if those were among the remaining Big 12 schools, I'd probably rather see the conference add Colorado State, Houston, and Memphis (relatively close by, not too different culturally) than to add an east coast school, and Memphis would only get in because West Virginia needs a regional rival. I might even prefer to see Tulane or Rice added because of their geographic proximity, than to add an east coast school, but would probably be persuaded to add Cincy as a 4th school if that would be necessary in order to preserve the status of the Big 12 as a power conference, and to help keep West Virginia in the conference.

.

But replacing only the 4 displaced teams would probably be a bad idea.
They would be better off, and would have a better chance of preserving preserve their power conference status if they were to expand to 12 or 14 teams.

So I think it's more likely they would re-expand to 12, so that the name "Big 12" would make sense again.

In that case, UCF and USF might be the 11th and 12th schools, as I see it. I could also seeing the 11th and 12th schools as being UCF and SDSU, because it would give ESPN a conference that spans the 4 time zones.

East: WVU, Iowa State,^ Memphis, Cincy, UCF, & USF

West: Kansas,^ K State,^ Baylor, Houston, TCU (or Texas Tech), & Colorado State


or


East: WVU, Iowa State,^ Memphis, Cincy, Houston,* & UCF

West: Kansas,^ K State,^ Baylor,* TCU (or Texas Tech), UCSD, & Colorado State


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Baylor and Houston would have a cross-division game every year.

^Iowa State would play a cross-division game with Kansas or K State every year.
UCF gets better ratings than Boise the last 5 years. Also you don’t seem to understand, Boise WILL NOT be added due to remote location and academics. San Diego State is maybe the 8th best candidate for expansion, UCF and usf both bring a better state for football, big markets that we actually have a foothold in, and better football success. UCF has a better fanbase, and a much bigger brand. Memphis has the same problem as Boise, academics. Their location is much better than Boise but academics will still hold them back when compared to Houston, Cincy, UCF, usf, Colorado State, BYU, etc.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 10:11 AM by BraveKnight.)
06-02-2020 10:11 AM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #45
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 08:34 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes.

The poll is posted to a realignment board where voters have fundamental knowledge of who drives realignment and what metrics they evaluate. There is no precedence for a school of Boise State's academic status getting into a conference like the BXII, and that's before demographics (i.e. do we recruit students from Boise) are even brought up. Thus, voters took 50+ years of data on university presidents and cast their votes accordingly.
Thank you.
06-02-2020 10:14 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #46
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 10:06 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:42 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:15 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The Big 12 will not lose any teams.

Would you be willing to elaborate or explain why you don't think so?

His scenario is 10 times more likely than the BXII losing 4 teams.

Ok - but why do you think so? Is there any logic behind your viewpoint, or is it just a gut feeling?

Is there any logic can you send me they will lose teams? It didn’t happen in 2010 with Texas or Oklahoma
06-02-2020 10:20 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #47
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 05:08 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?

.

NOTE: They would have the option to reload with 4, 6, 8, or 10 more schools, to end up with 10, 12, 14, or even 16 teams.

They also have the option to reload with 2 schools to end up with 8. But assuming they lose their four most attractive schools, it probably doesn't matter much, because they are no longer a power conference and no combination of schools they might add would change that.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 10:57 AM by ken d.)
06-02-2020 10:54 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #48
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 08:34 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes.

The poll is posted to a realignment board where voters have fundamental knowledge of who drives realignment and what metrics they evaluate. There is no precedence for a school of Boise State's academic status getting into a conference like the BXII, and that's before demographics (i.e. do we recruit students from Boise) are even brought up. Thus, voters took 50+ years of data on university presidents and cast their votes accordingly.

I do hope this is some more of your trademark sarcasm... 03-wink
06-02-2020 12:05 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #49
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
The American teams band together and hold the Big 12-6 hostage in exchange for a promotion-relegation setup. 12-team upper and lower conferences. Lower division winners and winners of 2 bowl games replace the bottom 4 (multi-year average) of the Upper conference each year. 7 game “conference” schedule with 2 games against the other conference to keep ancient rivalries intact.
06-02-2020 12:38 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #50
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
UCF is the easy answer. They’ve been the best program most recently, have one of the bigger G5 fan bases, have the recruiting territory and market size, and they have tremendous support from the administration
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:43 PM by Gamecock.)
06-02-2020 12:40 PM
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Post: #51
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
UCF, Memphis, Cincy, and Houston. Add Colorado State and USF if you go to 12.
06-02-2020 12:45 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #52
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 12:45 PM)whittx Wrote:  UCF, Memphis, Cincy, and Houston. Add Colorado State and USF if you go to 12.
This is the most likely scenario, with usf and Memphis interchangeable imo. usf has better academics but Memphis has a great basketball program, better fanbase, bigger brand, and closer location.
06-02-2020 04:13 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #53
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 04:13 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:45 PM)whittx Wrote:  UCF, Memphis, Cincy, and Houston. Add Colorado State and USF if you go to 12.
This is the most likely scenario, with usf and Memphis interchangeable imo. usf has better academics but Memphis has a great basketball program, better fanbase, bigger brand, and closer location.

That, and USF doesn't give you anything you don't already get with UCF.
06-02-2020 04:17 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #54
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 04:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 04:13 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:45 PM)whittx Wrote:  UCF, Memphis, Cincy, and Houston. Add Colorado State and USF if you go to 12.
This is the most likely scenario, with usf and Memphis interchangeable imo. usf has better academics but Memphis has a great basketball program, better fanbase, bigger brand, and closer location.

That, and USF doesn't give you anything you don't already get with UCF.
Yes, we’re better or the same in every category, except usf has a different market than us. (Although UCF has considerable influence in Tampa as well, so that could be a moot point).
06-02-2020 04:31 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #55
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 10:03 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:19 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  I. Boise State:

I get the argument about Boise, but in reply, no other FB program in the country except BYU has had better TV ratings than Boise State.

(06-02-2020 01:28 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Those are pretty good arguments, but I think that Boise FB has had the top viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years.

This is the opposite of true.

2019
Boise: 5,175,000 regular season viewers home and away. Las Vegas Bowl 2,640,000
Memphis: 11,666,000 reg.season viewers, all in AAC-controlled games. Cotton Bowl 6,220,000
Cincinnati: 12,020,000 all season, 9,080,000 in AAC controlled games
Navy: 11, 163,000 all season, but over nine million in Army/ND (2020 ND game will be AAC inventory). Navy's bowl viewership bigger than Boise's at 3,330,000
Houston: 11,009,000. 5,569,000 in AAC controlled games bigger than Boise's total.
UCF: 9,432,000 reg season, 6,289,000 AAC controlled

Boise's Fiesta Bowl ranks third of six NY6 bowl games involving non-contract-bowl-conference teams in the CFP era.


Those data are informative - - but for 2019 only.

What I had written was that I thought that "Boise FB has had the top viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years," not in 2019.

Perhaps I should be more precise: I think that Boise FB may have had the top average viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years (not just 2019, but across 2015 to 2019).
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 04:52 PM by jedclampett.)
06-02-2020 04:49 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #56
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 10:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:08 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?

.

NOTE: They would have the option to reload with 4, 6, 8, or 10 more schools, to end up with 10, 12, 14, or even 16 teams.

They also have the option to reload with 2 schools to end up with 8. But assuming they lose their four most attractive schools, it probably doesn't matter much, because they are no longer a power conference and no combination of schools they might add would change that.

I doubt very seriously that the Big 12 would lose its power conference status (i.e., that the NCAA would take away the "autonomous conference" status away from Kansas, K State, Iowa St., Baylor, West Virginia, etc.).

The network would have a huge say in all of this. They've got a huge investment to protect, and aren't going to let go of it lightly. They could restock with other power conference-type schools, such as Cincy and Houston.
06-02-2020 05:02 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #57
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 09:16 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 08:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I can't say, because it would depend on who the Big 12 loses. Losing Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas is a lot different from losing Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, and Kansas State.

In what scenario would the Big 12 lose "Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, and Kansas State" and keep "Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas"? Any Big 12 loses scenario that involves them losing teams will involve them losing Texas, Oklahoma, or both. There is no scenario for them losing any teams and keeping Texas and Oklahoma.

There isn't? Wow, I'm glad we have someone around here with a crystal ball, LOL.

Funny, in the past decade, the Big 12 managed to lose at least four schools - none of which were Texas or Oklahoma. But now that can't possibly happen again? Go figure.

07-coffee3
06-02-2020 05:05 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #58
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 04:31 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 04:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 04:13 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:45 PM)whittx Wrote:  UCF, Memphis, Cincy, and Houston. Add Colorado State and USF if you go to 12.
This is the most likely scenario, with usf and Memphis interchangeable imo. usf has better academics but Memphis has a great basketball program, better fanbase, bigger brand, and closer location.

That, and USF doesn't give you anything you don't already get with UCF.
Yes, we’re better or the same in every category, except usf has a different market than us. (Although UCF has considerable influence in Tampa as well, so that could be a moot point).

Well except we're a better school than you. And USF has thousands of alumni in Orlando as well.

07-coffee3
06-02-2020 05:08 PM
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Thiefery Offline
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Post: #59
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
I don't believe the Big12 loses any schools for now, think they actually do get AZ and SoCal in expansion.
However for this topic, I say these 4 teams get added.
Houston
SMU
UCF
S FL

No divisions, just 10 schools. BU, TCU, SMU, UH, KSU, KU, ISU, WV, S FL, UCF

If they happen to want to go to 12, then they would probably add Cincinnati and Tulane
East: WV, S FL, UCF, UC, TU, ISU
West: TCU, SMU, UH, KSU, KU, BU
Actually the actual 12 member Big 12 conference wouldn't be bad. DFW/HOU talent pool is some of the deepest in the country. Combine that with the Central and South FL pools, this could be a really good conference.
06-02-2020 05:08 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #60
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 05:02 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 10:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:08 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?

.

NOTE: They would have the option to reload with 4, 6, 8, or 10 more schools, to end up with 10, 12, 14, or even 16 teams.

They also have the option to reload with 2 schools to end up with 8. But assuming they lose their four most attractive schools, it probably doesn't matter much, because they are no longer a power conference and no combination of schools they might add would change that.

I doubt very seriously that the Big 12 would lose its power conference status (i.e., that the NCAA would take away the "autonomous conference" status away from Kansas, K State, Iowa St., Baylor, West Virginia, etc.).

The network would have a huge say in all of this. They've got a huge investment to protect, and aren't going to let go of it lightly. They could restock with other power conference-type schools, such as Cincy and Houston.

The NCAA has no say in which conferences are viewed as "power conferences". That's not the same thing as "autonomous conferences". I agree the NCAA wouldn't strip them of that. But I doubt the networks would continue to pay the remnants at anywhere near the level they currently enjoy.
06-02-2020 05:10 PM
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