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Poll: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with? (You can vote for more than one option)
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Boise State
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If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 08:23 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:33 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:17 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:13 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I could see Memphis in the mix as well.

If the Big 12 had to add 5 schools, then perhaps. But that's not the question here.

I will clarify in the OP that the Big 12 could decide to grow beyond 12 teams.

They'd stop at 10 in all likelihood.

Then they need to change the name of the damned conference... it’s stupid! And so does the Big10+4

If the Big 12 does lose 4 schools and replace them with 4 other schools, it would become the:

"Big 8+4-4+2-4+4"
06-01-2020 08:33 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
First, the 6 they lose: Texas and Texas Tech to SEC with Oklahoma, and Kansas to B1G.

Second: XII back to 12 with Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincinnati, Central Florida, and South Florida. Two regional divisions:

West: Baylor, SMU, TCU, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa Sf
East: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Central Florida, South Florida

That 6th spot was a toss-up with SMU and Temple. SMU has the deeper SWC ties which was the tiebreaker.
06-01-2020 08:52 PM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
The Big 12 will not lose any teams.
06-01-2020 09:15 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 09:15 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The Big 12 will not lose any teams.

Would you be willing to elaborate or explain why you don't think so?
06-01-2020 09:42 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #25
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 09:42 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:15 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The Big 12 will not lose any teams.

Would you be willing to elaborate or explain why you don't think so?

His scenario is 10 times more likely than the BXII losing 4 teams.
06-01-2020 09:53 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:42 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:15 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The Big 12 will not lose any teams.

Would you be willing to elaborate or explain why you don't think so?

His scenario is 10 times more likely than the BXII losing 4 teams.

Ok - but why do you think so? Is there any logic behind your viewpoint, or is it just a gut feeling?
06-01-2020 10:06 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 10:06 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:53 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:42 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 09:15 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The Big 12 will not lose any teams.

Would you be willing to elaborate or explain why you don't think so?

His scenario is 10 times more likely than the BXII losing 4 teams.

Ok - but why do you think so? Is there any logic behind your viewpoint, or is it just a gut feeling?

He doesn't understand hypotheticals. 03-wink
06-01-2020 10:15 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 08:14 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:11 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Easy: Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF.

This is true, especially if Texas is one of the four that leaves. I think UT would block UH otherwise. Too much institutional animosity.

The B12 already points east with WVU, and this would solidify the easterly direction.
Exactly. Those are the strongest eastern programs they could reload with. Also could swap usf for Memphis, their academics are horrible but their basketball and football programs are more successful, and have a bigger fanbase and foothold in their market.

Oh that's right because UCF is the bastion of academic excellence in America. 03-lmfao
06-01-2020 10:29 PM
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esayem Online
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Post: #29
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
I’ll take a wild guess as to which schools will be seriously considered:

UConn
UCF
USF
Cincinnati
Tulane
Rice
Houston
SMU
Air Force
Colorado St.
BYU

Actually, it wasn’t wild. Those were the finalists from last time.

Of course, it all depends on which schools left, but the best bet would be to solidify the Southwest/Mountain region with BYU, Colorado St., SMU, and Houston. UTEP joins the MWC while Rice and UNT backfill the AAC.
06-01-2020 11:04 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 10:29 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:14 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 08:11 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Easy: Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF.

This is true, especially if Texas is one of the four that leaves. I think UT would block UH otherwise. Too much institutional animosity.

The B12 already points east with WVU, and this would solidify the easterly direction.
Exactly. Those are the strongest eastern programs they could reload with. Also could swap usf for Memphis, their academics are horrible but their basketball and football programs are more successful, and have a bigger fanbase and foothold in their market.

Oh that's right because UCF is the bastion of academic excellence in America. 03-lmfao
Memphis was eliminated last time because of academics. UCF is more prestigious academically than Memphis, that’s a fact.
06-01-2020 11:19 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #31
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 08:27 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 07:49 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  Large markets (That they actually have a foothold in), great recruiting areas, large public universities, decent academics, great potential. UCF would definitely be included, usf would likely be the 4th school. (Behind UCF, Houston, and Cincy). Lots of reasons for the B12 to add them.

Houston (former SWC) and Cincy (former Big East), I agree with, because they are geographically close to at least one current Big 12 school, are in big cities, have had solid programs, and are former members of power conferences.

USF meets all the criteria except geographical closeness. I believe that, for the Big 12 schools, there would be interest in playing teams in or near the traditional Big 8 and Big 12 region, while granting an exception for schools that would give West Virginia nearby regional rivals (e.g., Cincy and Memphis). I could see them trying to keep West Virginia satisfied that way, but not diluting their regional brand by extending their footprint to the southern Atlantic coast.

UCF might be even farther down the list, because they are geographically distant and they are not a former power school.

Thus, if they had to choose, I'm thinking they might add BYU and Memphis ahead of USF and UCF, unless ESPN were to insist that, to maintain power status, they'd have to replace the former members with former power schools.

In that case, the options to choose from would be:

Houston (former SWC)
SMU (former SWC)
Rice (former SWC)
Tulane (former SEC)
Cincy (former Big East)
USF (former Big East)
UConn (former Big East)
Temple (former Big East (1991-2004 and 2012 in FB))

If ESPN were to require former power schools to replace the departing 4 schools on a 1:1 basis (stopping at 10 schools), they would probably go with Houston, Cincy, and SMU, and might add a former power school such as Tulane or Rice to beef up their academic and AAU credentials, or add USF despite the distance.
If being in the same region was the primary motivator (It won’t be and hasn’t been in a while), than West Virginia wouldn’t be in the conference. If being in a power conference 20 years ago mattered, Rice, Tulane, and SMU would be in the B12 already. UCF would be in the top 3-4 schools added in this scenario, we have arguably the biggest brand out of the G5 schools for football, we have the market to back it up, access to Florida recruits, a major rivalry, etc.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2020 11:23 PM by BraveKnight.)
06-01-2020 11:21 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
I am astonished that SDSU has only gotten 2 out of the first 119 votes, that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes, and somewhat surprised that BYU has gotten only 10 votes thus far.

However, I'm writing this at 10:25 pm Mountain Time and 9:25 pm Pacific Time. Maybe those schools will catch up in the next 2-3 hours.
06-01-2020 11:24 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that SDSU has only gotten 2 out of the first 119 votes, that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes, and somewhat surprised that BYU has gotten only 10 votes thus far.

However, I'm writing this at 10:25 pm Mountain Time and 9:25 pm Pacific Time. Maybe those schools will catch up in the next 2-3 hours.
San Diego State is just way too far away, and the eastern candidates are much bigger brands, Boise is in a bad location, smallish market, and academics are poor. Not surprising at all really. BYU has religious baggage with them.
06-01-2020 11:27 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 11:27 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that SDSU has only gotten 2 out of the first 119 votes, that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes, and somewhat surprised that BYU has gotten only 10 votes thus far.

However, I'm writing this at 10:25 pm Mountain Time and 9:25 pm Pacific Time. Maybe those schools will catch up in the next 2-3 hours.

San Diego State is just way too far away, and the eastern candidates are much bigger brands, Boise is in a bad location, smallish market, and academics are poor. Not surprising at all really. BYU has religious baggage with them.

I appreciate the fact that these are the standard reasons that people usually mention when they say they don't think these schools would be invited.

However, let's break these down a bit:

I. Boise State:

I get the argument about Boise, but in reply, no other FB program in the country except BYU has had better TV ratings than Boise State.

II. BYU:

Regarding BYU, is there anything more to the term "religious baggage" than a kind of anti-Mormon sentiment in the Big 12? Or, put differently, would the Big 12 refuse to add Notre Dame because of "religious baggage," as well? Both BYU and Notre Dame do play FB on Saturdays. Would the Big 12 oppose BYU simply because they don't play college sports on Sundays?

III. SDSU:

Yes, it takes a little longer to fly to San Diego, but there are benefits to having a California school in the Big 12, even more so than there are benefits to having Hawaii in the MWC.

For example, recruiting: most young men who grow up in the central U.S. would salivate at the idea of making trips to Southern California. A

Does a trip from San Diego State to Dallas take a lot more time than a trip from Dallas to Tampa?

Not a lot more time. Just 30 minutes longer by plane:

SD to Dallas: 2 hr 55 m. Dallas to Tampa: 2 hr 25 m.

Dallas to SD: 3 hr 5 m. Tampa to SD: 2 hr. 35 m.


Overall, it probably makes no more and no less sense to add UCF or USF than it would make to add SDSU.

Viewership: California has a much, much larger population than Florida has. San Diego is a larger metro area by population with more viewership than Tampa both and Orlando, and SDSU would also generate viewership all the way up the coast to the huge Los Angeles metro area (13 million)
06-02-2020 12:19 AM
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #35
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 12:19 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:27 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that SDSU has only gotten 2 out of the first 119 votes, that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes, and somewhat surprised that BYU has gotten only 10 votes thus far.

However, I'm writing this at 10:25 pm Mountain Time and 9:25 pm Pacific Time. Maybe those schools will catch up in the next 2-3 hours.

San Diego State is just way too far away, and the eastern candidates are much bigger brands, Boise is in a bad location, smallish market, and academics are poor. Not surprising at all really. BYU has religious baggage with them.

I appreciate the fact that these are the standard reasons that people usually mention when they say they don't think these schools would be invited.

However, let's break these down a bit:

I. Boise State:

I get the argument about Boise, but in reply, no other FB program in the country except BYU has had better TV ratings than Boise State.

II. BYU:

Regarding BYU, is there anything more to the term "religious baggage" than a kind of anti-Mormon sentiment in the Big 12? Or, put differently, would the Big 12 refuse to add Notre Dame because of "religious baggage," as well? Both BYU and Notre Dame do play FB on Saturdays. Would the Big 12 oppose BYU simply because they don't play college sports on Sundays?

III. SDSU:

Yes, it takes a little longer to fly to San Diego, but there are benefits to having a California school in the Big 12, even more so than there are benefits to having Hawaii in the MWC.

For example, recruiting: most young men who grow up in the central U.S. would salivate at the idea of making trips to Southern California. A

Does a trip from San Diego State to Dallas take a lot more time than a trip from Dallas to Tampa?

Not a lot more time. Just 30 minutes longer by plane:

SD to Dallas: 2 hr 55 m. Dallas to Tampa: 2 hr 25 m.

Dallas to SD: 3 hr 5 m. Tampa to SD: 2 hr. 35 m.


Overall, it probably makes no more and no less sense to add UCF or USF than it would make to add SDSU.

Viewership: California has a much, much larger population than Florida has. San Diego is a larger metro area by population with more viewership than Tampa both and Orlando, and SDSU would also generate viewership all the way up the coast to the huge Los Angeles metro area (13 million)
You didn’t address the reasons why they won’t be added. San Diego State does not get 13 million viewers, stop being ridiculous. Look at UCF’s TV ratings compared to theirs. We also have considerably more brand value and success, as well as a bigger fanbase. I’m pretty sure UCF gets way better ratings over the last 5 years for football than Boise. Also everyone else clearly agrees with me, look at the poll results. A Big 12 expansion would include UCF, period. Way more upside to adding UCF or usf than any of the schools you mention other than Cincy or Houston. The Big 12 wont add BYU because of their anti-LGBTQ sentiment, among other reasons. San Diego State wasn’t even considered last time, and Boise wasn’t really either. Houston, Cincy, UCF, and usf/Memphis would be the 4. You could make an argument for BYU, Colorado State, SMU, and maybe UConn or Temple, but that’s pretty much it. I like SDSU and Boise, and would prefer them in the current AAC, but they won’t be added to the B12.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 12:52 AM by BraveKnight.)
06-02-2020 12:50 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #36
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 12:50 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-02-2020 12:19 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:27 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that SDSU has only gotten 2 out of the first 119 votes, that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes, and somewhat surprised that BYU has gotten only 10 votes thus far.

However, I'm writing this at 10:25 pm Mountain Time and 9:25 pm Pacific Time. Maybe those schools will catch up in the next 2-3 hours.

San Diego State is just way too far away, and the eastern candidates are much bigger brands, Boise is in a bad location, smallish market, and academics are poor. Not surprising at all really. BYU has religious baggage with them.

I appreciate the fact that these are the standard reasons that people usually mention when they say they don't think these schools would be invited.

However, let's break these down a bit:

I. Boise State:

I get the argument about Boise, but in reply, no other FB program in the country except BYU has had better TV ratings than Boise State.

II. BYU:

Regarding BYU, is there anything more to the term "religious baggage" than a kind of anti-Mormon sentiment in the Big 12? Or, put differently, would the Big 12 refuse to add Notre Dame because of "religious baggage," as well? Both BYU and Notre Dame do play FB on Saturdays. Would the Big 12 oppose BYU simply because they don't play college sports on Sundays?

III. SDSU:

Yes, it takes a little longer to fly to San Diego, but there are benefits to having a California school in the Big 12, even more so than there are benefits to having Hawaii in the MWC.

For example, recruiting: most young men who grow up in the central U.S. would salivate at the idea of making trips to Southern California. A

Does a trip from San Diego State to Dallas take a lot more time than a trip from Dallas to Tampa?

Not a lot more time. Just 30 minutes longer by plane:

SD to Dallas: 2 hr 55 m. Dallas to Tampa: 2 hr 25 m.

Dallas to SD: 3 hr 5 m. Tampa to SD: 2 hr. 35 m.


Overall, it probably makes no more and no less sense to add UCF or USF than it would make to add SDSU.

Viewership: California has a much, much larger population than Florida has. San Diego is a larger metro area by population with more viewership than Tampa both and Orlando, and SDSU would also generate viewership all the way up the coast to the huge Los Angeles metro area (13 million)
You didn’t address the reasons why they won’t be added. San Diego State does not get 13 million viewers, stop being ridiculous. Look at UCF’s TV ratings compared to theirs. We also have considerably more brand value and success, as well as a bigger fanbase. I’m pretty sure UCF gets way better ratings over the last 5 years for football than Boise. Also everyone else clearly agrees with me, look at the poll results. A Big 12 expansion would include UCF, period. Way more upside to adding UCF or usf than any of the schools you mention other than Cincy or Houston. The Big 12 wont add BYU because of their anti-LGBTQ sentiment, among other reasons. San Diego State wasn’t even considered last time, and Boise wasn’t really either. Houston, Cincy, UCF, and usf/Memphis would be the 4. You could make an argument for BYU, Colorado State, SMU, and maybe UConn or Temple, but that’s pretty much it. I like SDSU and Boise, and would prefer them in the current AAC, but they won’t be added to the B12.

Those are pretty good arguments, but I think that Boise FB has had the top viewership numbers among non-P5 teams over the past 5 years.

If Boise St. can't get into the Big 12, it's probably mostly because they're not as strong in BB/olympic sports as they are in FB, and because the Big 12 won't want any FB-only schools.

I hadn't considered the anti-LGBTQ issue. Wonder if BYU would be willing to change the objectionable policies if that would be enough to get them into a P5 conference. My guess is that more than half of BYU fans would encourage such a change. As with Catholic and Evangelical Christians, Mormon attitudes about gender & sexuality have been evolving rapidly, esp. among generations Y and Z.

Personally, I'm inclined to think that Memphis might be the top choice of the Big 12, because they are within driving distance and that the Big 12 would add at least one MWC team, probably Colorado State.

I'm from the midwest myself, originally, and just as east coast people have a preference to play east coast schools, midwesterners tend to prefer watching games vs. midwestern opponents.

If I had attended Baylor or Kansas - - and if those were among the remaining Big 12 schools, I'd probably rather see the conference add Colorado State, Houston, and Memphis (relatively close by, not too different culturally) than to add an east coast school, and Memphis would only get in because West Virginia needs a regional rival. I might even prefer to see Tulane or Rice added because of their geographic proximity, than to add an east coast school, but would probably be persuaded to add Cincy as a 4th school if that would be necessary in order to preserve the status of the Big 12 as a power conference, and to help keep West Virginia in the conference.

.

But replacing only the 4 displaced teams would probably be a bad idea.
They would be better off, and would have a better chance of preserving preserve their power conference status if they were to expand to 12 or 14 teams.

So I think it's more likely they would re-expand to 12, so that the name "Big 12" would make sense again.

In that case, UCF and USF might be the 11th and 12th schools, as I see it. I could also seeing the 11th and 12th schools as being UCF and SDSU, because it would give ESPN a conference that spans the 4 time zones.

East: WVU, Iowa State,^ Memphis, Cincy, UCF, & USF

West: Kansas,^ K State,^ Baylor, Houston, TCU (or Texas Tech), & Colorado State


or


East: WVU, Iowa State,^ Memphis, Cincy, Houston,* & UCF

West: Kansas,^ K State,^ Baylor,* TCU (or Texas Tech), UCSD, & Colorado State


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Baylor and Houston would have a cross-division game every year.

^Iowa State would play a cross-division game with Kansas or K State every year.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 02:06 AM by jedclampett.)
06-02-2020 01:28 AM
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Post: #37
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 05:13 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 05:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Easy: Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, USF.

I could see Memphis in the mix as well.

They may bump USF because of accomplishments.
06-02-2020 07:46 AM
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Post: #38
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
I can't say, because it would depend on who the Big 12 loses. Losing Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Kansas is a lot different from losing Texas Tech, TCU, Iowa State, and Kansas State.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 08:01 AM by quo vadis.)
06-02-2020 08:01 AM
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Post: #39
RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes.

The poll is posted to a realignment board where voters have fundamental knowledge of who drives realignment and what metrics they evaluate. There is no precedence for a school of Boise State's academic status getting into a conference like the BXII, and that's before demographics (i.e. do we recruit students from Boise) are even brought up. Thus, voters took 50+ years of data on university presidents and cast their votes accordingly.
06-02-2020 08:34 AM
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RE: If the Big 12 were to lose 4 teams, which teams would the conference reload with?
(06-02-2020 08:34 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(06-01-2020 11:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  I am astonished that Boise State has gotten only 5 votes.

The poll is posted to a realignment board where voters have fundamental knowledge of who drives realignment and what metrics they evaluate. There is no precedence for a school of Boise State's academic status getting into a conference like the BXII, and that's before demographics (i.e. do we recruit students from Boise) are even brought up. Thus, voters took 50+ years of data on university presidents and cast their votes accordingly.

Louisville was accepted into the ACC.
06-02-2020 08:53 AM
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