(06-02-2020 10:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of complaining and virtual signalling all over social media but I have yet to see one "outraged" person offer a solution that is reasonable.

So I am asking our minority posters to tell us all what we as a nation can do to end this reasonably.

I'm not a minority poster, but I am a far leftist so I'll throw in my opinion anyway. I think some kind of mass protesting/rioting has been coming for a while. You could obviously see it percolating with the "open up" protests, and it's been a powder keg waiting to explode. The Floyd murder was just the spark that finally set this off. Normally these things kinda break down and calm down after a few days because most people have jobs and lives they need to get back to, but the entire societal structure is breaking down. You've got like 40 million people unemployed and both parties have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt they will not help you. A lot of these people don't have lives and jobs to go back to, they are broke, they are going to lose their home as soon as evictions are allowed again, and they don't see any reason to hope for better. If the government was making it clear that they were going to make sure everyone was whole and no ones life was going to be completely ruined because of this crisis then it wouldn't be this ugly, but that ship has long since sailed.

Whenever this does eventually calm down some kind of riots/protests are going to break out again if the material conditions of people continue to not be met at all. Don't know what will be the cause of it, but it will happen.

(06-02-2020 10:52 AM)Kronke Wrote:  Their solution is that you completely and utterly submit to them. They've told you for the past 4 years that they want a revolution. You didn't believe them.

You're dealing with terrorists.

exactly. Submission and reparations and permanent 2nd class citizenship for all people who are not of Color or soyboys.

(06-02-2020 11:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If the government was making it clear that they were going to make sure everyone was whole and no ones life was going to be completely ruined because of this crisis then it wouldn't be this ugly, but that ship has long since sailed.

The problem with this is the fact that the government cannot make everyone whole because in order to make someone "whole" they have to make someone else less than "whole". Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's responsibility to make you "whole", it's the government's responsibility to grease the skids so that you can make yourself "whole".

(06-02-2020 11:03 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:57 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:53 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:51 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:48 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Somehow Police brutality needs to be addressed. Rioters & Looters need to be arrested and charged, and protesters should be allowed to peaceably protest.

Now it is very easy to say those things, but harder to to do. It's too bad that our President hasn't been a little more unifying in this. As much as I despise Obama who was most certainly a divider and not a unifier, Trump should have attempted to bring him in for a "summit" and press conference.

People won't go to the White House for some BigMacs after winning a championship. I highly doubt any Orange Man Bad personnel would agree to meet him in a summit. That would legitimize him in their eyes and nothing he does can be viewed as legitimate

Oh, I get it...

Asking a previous President to come help solve a problem he himself clearly didn't fix is surrendering his sovereign authority as President. It would be the end of the Trump Presidency.

I can understand why you would see it that way, but I don't. Both Presidents represent different people groups who believe the system is broken against them. I would see it as an attempt to unify a broken country...and yes, we are broken. There is substantial political risk for both, but we are sitting on a ton of that risk right now and it is starting to blow up in one way or another.

Maybe Trump will have “more flexibility after the election”. They can have a beer summit then. Obama is retired. He has no political risk. Trump has up to 5 more years to go.
If you think “resis fordy fi” is bad now, just wait til November. They’ll be apoplectic.

Trump is in a no win situation but highlighting the ineptitude and cowardice of the governors in dealing with riots and mayhem is as good a strategy as he is going to get. He can meet with the other great divider in December.

There is no solution as long as idiots blame Trump for a d!ckhead local cop in Minneapolis.

People who are destroying property and assaulting people aren’t looking for a solution. They are just as big of a d!ckhead as that cop.

There is no one solution that will please everyone.

Reparations is not the answer, you're making the American tax payer who may or may not be several generations removed pay money to people who may or may not be several generations removed from slavery.

Not all LEOs are bad. I suggest departments take the time and try to weed them out. I have zero law enforcement experience, so I'm unsure if there is an actual procedure for this.

Arrest the non-peaceful protestors. Plain and simple. Use non-lethal means (rubber bullets, bean bag shots) and take'em down. They decide to get violent, then meet their reaction. Once in jail charge them with terrorism.

(06-02-2020 10:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of complaining and virtual signalling all over social media but I have yet to see one "outraged" person offer a solution that is reasonable.

So I am asking our minority posters to tell us all what we as a nation can do to end this reasonably.

JR and I went back and forth on this on another thread. But I think we both agreed on a few elements that could be redressed with law enforcement. Many believe this to be a strictly racial issue, but IMO these grievances track more closely along the lower socio-economic strata. As such my suggestions are:

Reduction in laws: The police are asked to prosecute and upheld dictates that put them in untenable situations. Decriminalization of weed is a step in the right direction. Eliminating no-knock raids in order to achieve convictions for possession would be another.

Demilitarization: The glorification of SWAT/ATF style tactics and equipment has percolated down to even small jurisdictions which distorts the mindset a proper police officer should have. To say nothing of the numerous ex-military personnel who go from deployment to patrol without a psych screening.

Better Screening: Many might have missed a fairly large cheating scandal associated with the Georgia Highway Patrol late last year. The fact these candidates felt the need to employ such tactics on a fairly basic test speaks volumes IMO of the quality available. If we want better results, we need better officers.

Community Engagement: Replacing walking the beat with rolling through the neighborhood has led to a disconnect between law enforcement and the populace. Bike patrols seem to be a better alternative that allow the police to interact with store owners, kids and neighbors in a more meaning manner.

We need to divorce as a nation (or at the very least something like the articles of confederation). Let the liberal states become communist paradises while the red states return to a constitutional patriotic America (or perhaps even an illiberal democracy). Only solution I see to end things peacefully.

(06-02-2020 11:42 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to divorce as a nation (or at the very least something like the articles of confederation). Let the liberal states become communist paradises while the red states return to a constitutional patriotic America (or perhaps even an illiberal democracy). Only solution I see to end things peacefully.

I'm Southern born and bred, and when I die, I'll be Southern dead... However the War of Northern Aggression was about keeping this nation as a whole nation and not divided, hence the name United States.

(06-02-2020 11:03 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:57 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:53 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:51 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:48 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Somehow Police brutality needs to be addressed. Rioters & Looters need to be arrested and charged, and protesters should be allowed to peaceably protest.

Now it is very easy to say those things, but harder to to do. It's too bad that our President hasn't been a little more unifying in this. As much as I despise Obama who was most certainly a divider and not a unifier, Trump should have attempted to bring him in for a "summit" and press conference.

People won't go to the White House for some BigMacs after winning a championship. I highly doubt any Orange Man Bad personnel would agree to meet him in a summit. That would legitimize him in their eyes and nothing he does can be viewed as legitimate

Oh, I get it...

Asking a previous President to come help solve a problem he himself clearly didn't fix is surrendering his sovereign authority as President. It would be the end of the Trump Presidency.

I can understand why you would see it that way, but I don't. Both Presidents represent different people groups who believe the system is broken against them. I would see it as an attempt to unify a broken country...and yes, we are broken. There is substantial political risk for both, but we are sitting on a ton of that risk right now and it is starting to blow up in one way or another.

Worst idea of the week. Put two narcissists in a room who despise each other, one of whom is a corrupt Chicago extreme partisan?

(06-02-2020 11:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If the government was making it clear that they were going to make sure everyone was whole and no ones life was going to be completely ruined because of this crisis then it wouldn't be this ugly, but that ship has long since sailed.

The problem with this is the fact that the government cannot make everyone whole because in order to make someone "whole" they have to make someone else less than "whole". Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's responsibility to make you "whole", it's the government's responsibility to grease the skids so that you can make yourself "whole".

Ultimately his point is right. People need to have something to lose. Even that NY attorney who was distributing molotov cocktails had been furloughed.

Restart the Trump economy where there are plenty of jobs for those who don't have a college education. Bring back manufacturing.

And speak constantly about the truth. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a lie. Black Lives Matter is based on the truth that Black people do get harrassed more, but on the lie that Blacks get killed more. Use actual statistics to destroy the MSM anecdotes.

And while this won't satisfy anyone, you need to have a national clearinghouse of data so that best practices on hiring and monitoring employees can be shared. Study those officers who do snap. Monitor statistics on local police departments' responses to complaints.

(06-02-2020 11:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If the government was making it clear that they were going to make sure everyone was whole and no ones life was going to be completely ruined because of this crisis then it wouldn't be this ugly, but that ship has long since sailed.

The problem with this is the fact that the government cannot make everyone whole because in order to make someone "whole" they have to make someone else less than "whole". Not to mention the fact that it's not the government's responsibility to make you "whole", it's the government's responsibility to grease the skids so that you can make yourself "whole".

If all these people were unemployed because they were lazy, didn't want to work, just wanted to suck on the government tit, or really whatever reason you assume people don't work you'd have a point. Why did 40+ million jobs disappear though? Because we have a public health crisis where the government deemed it not safe for people to work. You can argue they overreacted or that it was the appropriate action, doesn't really matter, the point is these jobs went away because of a choice the government made. What has the government done after making that choice to assure it's people don't lose everything during the time it told them they couldn't work? Pretty much nothing. They gave away trillions to Wall Street and the largest corporations while giving peanuts to small businesses and 1 check to American's that's long since been spent. What's going to happen to people who were already stretched to the max before this hit? Of course society is breaking down you'd have to be blind or dumb to not see this as an obvious conclusion.

I'm real lucky that I have a job and work in an industry that will survive this. Financially this has actually been almost good for me, even the losses my retirement took are nearly all back. I also know I'm lucky as hell. The only thing keeping me from being out in those protests is I'm still relatively comfortable, so while I'm angry I don't want to risk losing what I got. A lot of those people have nothing left to lose. That's the actual thing that has to be addressed or there's gonna be something else that triggers this exact same response soon.

(06-02-2020 11:42 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to divorce as a nation (or at the very least something like the articles of confederation). Let the liberal states become communist paradises while the red states return to a constitutional patriotic America (or perhaps even an illiberal democracy). Only solution I see to end things peacefully.

I've seen secession thrown around increasingly in US political thought, and while I used to think it was just a ridiculous notion I have changed my mind slightly on the matter. Breaking apart the US into a more regional system I think would have a lot of advantages for self-governance purposes. We could even maintain something like the UK's Commonwealth for military and trade purposes.

(06-02-2020 12:37 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:42 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to divorce as a nation (or at the very least something like the articles of confederation). Let the liberal states become communist paradises while the red states return to a constitutional patriotic America (or perhaps even an illiberal democracy). Only solution I see to end things peacefully.

I've seen secession thrown around increasingly in US political thought, and while I used to think it was just a ridiculous notion I have changed my mind slightly on the matter. Breaking apart the US into a more regional system I think would have a lot of advantages for self-governance purposes. We could even maintain something like the UK's Commonwealth for military and trade purposes.

(06-02-2020 12:40 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 12:37 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:42 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to divorce as a nation (or at the very least something like the articles of confederation). Let the liberal states become communist paradises while the red states return to a constitutional patriotic America (or perhaps even an illiberal democracy). Only solution I see to end things peacefully.

I've seen secession thrown around increasingly in US political thought, and while I used to think it was just a ridiculous notion I have changed my mind slightly on the matter. Breaking apart the US into a more regional system I think would have a lot of advantages for self-governance purposes. We could even maintain something like the UK's Commonwealth for military and trade purposes.

It increases the quality of life and short term survival of the preferred culture. It however weakens the grasp on what has been a virtually impregnable continent and it potentially weakens the collective defense in as much as it would require a meeting of the minds from two groups who separated rather than live with one another. So long term it kills us both.

(06-02-2020 11:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of complaining and virtual signalling all over social media but I have yet to see one "outraged" person offer a solution that is reasonable.

So I am asking our minority posters to tell us all what we as a nation can do to end this reasonably.

I'm not a minority poster, but I am a far leftist so I'll throw in my opinion anyway. I think some kind of mass protesting/rioting has been coming for a while. You could obviously see it percolating with the "open up" protests, and it's been a powder keg waiting to explode. The Floyd murder was just the spark that finally set this off. Normally these things kinda break down and calm down after a few days because most people have jobs and lives they need to get back to, but the entire societal structure is breaking down. You've got like 40 million people unemployed and both parties have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt they will not help you. A lot of these people don't have lives and jobs to go back to, they are broke, they are going to lose their home as soon as evictions are allowed again, and they don't see any reason to hope for better. If the government was making it clear that they were going to make sure everyone was whole and no ones life was going to be completely ruined because of this crisis then it wouldn't be this ugly, but that ship has long since sailed.

Whenever this does eventually calm down some kind of riots/protests are going to break out again if the material conditions of people continue to not be met at all. Don't know what will be the cause of it, but it will happen.

The sad thing is even after the epidemic and current job loss, even the lower and lower middle class is still living better than almost all humans that ever existed and are some of the luckiest humans ever born to live in America in 2020.

But the brainwashing by Hollywood, the media and social media have these same people convinced they are some of the most oppressed people ever, and minorities are actually being hunted down and killed by the police.

Its scary how effective the mind control is over the masses.

(06-02-2020 12:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 11:03 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:57 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:53 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 10:51 AM)solohawks Wrote:  People won't go to the White House for some BigMacs after winning a championship. I highly doubt any Orange Man Bad personnel would agree to meet him in a summit. That would legitimize him in their eyes and nothing he does can be viewed as legitimate

Oh, I get it...

Asking a previous President to come help solve a problem he himself clearly didn't fix is surrendering his sovereign authority as President. It would be the end of the Trump Presidency.

I can understand why you would see it that way, but I don't. Both Presidents represent different people groups who believe the system is broken against them. I would see it as an attempt to unify a broken country...and yes, we are broken. There is substantial political risk for both, but we are sitting on a ton of that risk right now and it is starting to blow up in one way or another.

Worst idea of the week. Put two narcissists in a room who despise each other, one of whom is a corrupt Chicago extreme partisan?

It may be bad, but isn't as bad as splitting the country into two. Come on, at least give me that.

At a high level....truly loving one another and all sides reciprocating that love.

At a granular level, sitting down and having discussions on what the barriers are and what are reasonable and real solutions. Discuss up front what is absolutely off the table and work back from there. There are solutions, but they must be defined, measurable, agreed upon, and reevaluated on a regular basis.

And, it has to happen on the local level, one size will not fit all.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

(06-02-2020 01:16 PM)maximus Wrote:  At a high level....truly loving one another and all sides reciprocating that love.

At a granular level, sitting down and having discussions on what the barriers are and what are reasonable and real solutions. Discuss up front what is absolutely off the table and work back from there. There are solutions, but they must be defined, measurable, agreed upon, and reevaluated on a regular basis.

And, it has to happen on the local level, one size will not fit all.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

This!

Honest and open dialogue would be a good start. Understanding that justice is a process and that everyone is entitled to due process.