(05-06-2020 01:10 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-04-2020 02:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-03-2020 04:16 PM)pono Wrote:  it is about exposure. there is not a net revenue gain; loss game day revenue = espn $. if the mac had a profitable tv contract this would be different. they do not. it is done for recruiting and tv.

Then we're back to the recruiting question. I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that it has improved recruiting.

That depends on what you suppose the situation would have been with substantially less exposure. There isn't an opportunity for a scientifically controlled comparison ... you do it, you don't actually know whether it would be worse otherwise, you don't do it, same thing.

Someone who is committed to believing that it's good or that it's bad can easily make the convenient assumption about what things would have been like without it to "prove" the argument in either direction, but neither assumption actually proves more than what that person wanted to conclude.

Quote: And "tv" is the same thing as exposure which I guess helps the non-sports aspect of the school?

Since we are talking about the Universities subsidizing the sports, rather than the fans of the sports teams paying for the sports, that had BETTER be a marketing benefit to the University as a whole ... otherwise there is no justification for the University subsidizing the team.

Sure, I can't prove what would have happened had we not had all the weeknight games. But there is still no evidence whatsoever that the E$PN deal has improved recruiting. And without that the only thing you have left is the money you get for the deal, and the minimal amount of exposure (which, I am pretty sure, has not led to increases in enrollments for MAC schools though I could be wrong).

There is evidence that attendance has not been significantly affected over this same time period. Individual programs go up and down, but league-wide, average MAC attendance remains fairly constant. There has been a slight downward trend, but that matches the downward trend nationally and would not appear to be related to weeknight games.

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

Ok. Still true, though. It has been always thus.

I’ve never seen anything but anecdotal evidence and opinion that midweek games have affected attendance in any meaningful way. It’s usually things like “Well, it’s obvious” and “Anyone can see it’s hurt attendance.”
Ok. Show us. I love facts. But don’t show me Saturday attendance in the good weather months and compare it to November midweek attendance. You have to consider the whole conference over time, not just selected games from certain teams. You can’t pick and choose attendance figures and say some are reliable and some are not just because they support an opinion.

I get that some people don’t like midweek games, especially those that can’t go to them because of other commitments. And there are those that love them because they can watch a bunch of MAC games they would never have gone to no matter when they were. Consider how many games just the people on this board watch that don’t even involve their own schools that they would never see otherwise.

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

I’m sure weather contributed here, but that’s just awful. I feel bad for the dedicated fans that actually love the Akron program.

I’m glad App State moved up to FBS, however if this was ever the result I’d be banging the drum to go back to FCS.

I’d much rather watch my alma mater on a crisp fall Saturday afternoon with 25k fans as a ranked FCS team than whatever that is above.

(05-06-2020 01:36 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

I’m sure weather contributed here, but that’s just awful. I feel bad for the dedicated fans that actually love the Akron program.

I’m glad App State moved up to FBS, however if this was ever the result I’d be banging the drum to go back to FCS.

I’d much rather watch my alma mater on a crisp fall Saturday afternoon with 25k fans as a ranked FCS team than whatever that is above.

The problem being is that Akron probably wouldn't get 25k on a Saturday afternoon in November.

Akron football has stunk the 30+ years it has 'competed' in FBS and it's not like they were tearing it up in the FCS before that. On a nice, sunny day in September we can pull maybe 20k.

There is no context to this picture. When was it taken? 1st Q? Late 4th Q? We get a TON of students bailing at halftime to get refueled. It looks like it rained or was raining at least.

(05-06-2020 04:13 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  There is no context to this picture. When was it taken? 1st Q? Late 4th Q? We get a TON of students bailing at halftime to get refueled. It looks like it rained or was raining at least.

It looks like sometime in the 4th quarter of a close game. Either way, there are exodus’s and then there’s this.

(05-06-2020 03:28 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Akron football has stunk the 30+ years it has 'competed' in FBS and it's not like they were tearing it up in the FCS before that. On a nice, sunny day in September we can pull maybe 20k.

Still sounds better than 300 people in the dark rain.

(05-06-2020 04:13 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  There is no context to this picture. When was it taken? 1st Q? Late 4th Q? We get a TON of students bailing at halftime to get refueled. It looks like it rained or was raining at least.

There were multiple photos posted around after the fact, it looked like that most of the time. Anytime a MAC school goes winless the crowd looks like that during a weeknight, same thing happened to Miami in 2013.

Is there a particular reason why MACtion went from one or two games a week spread out over the entire season to an avalanche of games almost entirely in November? I don't understand why the MAC or ESPN would consider that more valuable. And I really REALLY don't understand having two MACtion games in a competing time slot. The entire point of MACtion is there's no other football ... why the hell would you compete against yourself on TV if that's the point of taking the unusual time slot?

I love MACtion back as it use to be ... one game a week almost every week and it can't be on a Th/Fri. For a glorious two or three seasons with MACtion and Fun Belt and Th/Fri games there were several weeks where the only days of the week without a CFB game were Sunday and Monday.

(05-06-2020 04:56 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 03:28 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Akron football has stunk the 30+ years it has 'competed' in FBS and it's not like they were tearing it up in the FCS before that. On a nice, sunny day in September we can pull maybe 20k.

Still sounds better than 300 people in the dark rain.

Nice sunny September days just aren't available in November.

500 still in the stands late in the game in a slightly less dark rain on a grim overcast November Saturday afternoon wouldn't be ALL that much better.

(05-06-2020 09:08 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Is there a particular reason why MACtion went from one or two games a week spread out over the entire season to an avalanche of games almost entirely in November? I don't understand why the MAC or ESPN would consider that more valuable. And I really REALLY don't understand having two MACtion games in a competing time slot. The entire point of MACtion is there's no other football ... why the hell would you compete against yourself on TV if that's the point of taking the unusual time slot?

I love MACtion back as it use to be ... one game a week almost every week and it can't be on a Th/Fri. For a glorious two or three seasons with MACtion and Fun Belt and Th/Fri games there were several weeks where the only days of the week without a CFB game were Sunday and Monday.

RE: Thursday night football. Yeah, the NFL put an end to that...

I really wish the NFL wasn't so greedy.

(05-06-2020 09:08 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Is there a particular reason why MACtion went from one or two games a week spread out over the entire season to an avalanche of games almost entirely in November?

The MAC went to an (almost) entirely Tuesday/Wednesday November schedule for the convenience of ESPN, which needs content in November, and to make it easier for schools to get all 12 games in by creating only one 10-11 day game in the schedule. Scheduling multiple games on each day allows the network to pick which games will draw the best ratings and slot them accordingly. I don't think it's more complicated than that, but I'll listen to other points of view.

So everyone would have a fair amount of time between games.

Instead of some having 11 days in between and others 5.

Decided it was better just to structure all the games midweek.

(05-08-2020 10:45 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 09:08 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Is there a particular reason why MACtion went from one or two games a week spread out over the entire season to an avalanche of games almost entirely in November?

The MAC went to an (almost) entirely Tuesday/Wednesday November schedule for the convenience of ESPN, which needs content in November, and to make it easier for schools to get all 12 games in by creating only one 10-11 day game in the schedule. Scheduling multiple games on each day allows the network to pick which games will draw the best ratings and slot them accordingly. I don't think it's more complicated than that, but I'll listen to other points of view.

Yea, it works out really well for ESPN.....

(05-06-2020 09:08 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Is there a particular reason why MACtion went from one or two games a week spread out over the entire season to an avalanche of games almost entirely in November?

What ESPN would pay for and what ESPN would guarantee ESPN2 games for.

As already mentioned, November is when ESPN is most willing to make a special deal for guaranteed midweek games, since it has fewer spots to fill in September/October and more schools willing to play the occasional midweek game if it means a higher profile cable slot.

And at the same time, NBA & Football is a different audience mix than MLB and Football, and Go5 football on ESPN2 is better counter-programming for a midweek NBA game on the mothership than when there are midweek Baseball games being played.

However, they are not going to agree to MAC games on ESPN2 without a pair of games to choose from. For Tuesday/Wednesday (and I remember Tuesday/Thursday MACtion, but that was before NFL on Thursday), that's eight schools playing Midweek, over 3/4 weeks.

And, of course, it's a "President's conference", in terms of the balance of power between President's and Athletic Departments, and the Presidents like the opportunity for the exposure. The only better exposure a MAC school is going to get is in a Bowl game or if it makes a run in the Tourney ... but neither of those are as easy to win as a #MACtion spot on ESPN2.

Still, one thing the MAC should do is to organize a Rivalry Week on the "Third Saturday in October". The Battle of the Bricks, the Wagon Wheel, the Battle of I-75, one of the three Battle of Michigan games (in rotation), all on the same Saturday.

Indeed, the Battle of Michigan should start with an "early" conference game so the Rivalry Week is the second of the series and it completes in the following week, before November #MACtion games start.

(05-06-2020 01:48 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:36 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

I’m sure weather contributed here, but that’s just awful. I feel bad for the dedicated fans that actually love the Akron program.

I’m glad App State moved up to FBS, however if this was ever the result I’d be banging the drum to go back to FCS.

I’d much rather watch my alma mater on a crisp fall Saturday afternoon with 25k fans as a ranked FCS team than whatever that is above.

The problem being is that Akron probably wouldn't get 25k on a Saturday afternoon in November.

That’s a cheap shot at Akron football. The point is well made that every and I mean Every MAC School attendance would increase playing on Saturdays!

(05-10-2020 03:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  ']
Still, one thing the MAC should do is to organize a Rivalry Week on the "Third Saturday in October". The Battle of the Bricks, the Wagon Wheel, the Battle of I-75, one of the three Battle of Michigan games (in rotation), all on the same Saturday.

They didn't do anything formally, but weren't all major rivalries scheduled for October Saturdays this upcoming season? Of course its for a season to be played without fans. Same goes for Miami, we have a great home schedule of UC, OU, and Army but it's looking less and less likely that we'll get to take advantage.