(05-10-2020 10:41 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:48 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:36 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 10:30 AM)axeme Wrote:  league-wide, average fictitious reported MAC attendance remains fairly constant.

FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

I’m sure weather contributed here, but that’s just awful. I feel bad for the dedicated fans that actually love the Akron program.

I’m glad App State moved up to FBS, however if this was ever the result I’d be banging the drum to go back to FCS.

I’d much rather watch my alma mater on a crisp fall Saturday afternoon with 25k fans as a ranked FCS team than whatever that is above.

The problem being is that Akron probably wouldn't get 25k on a Saturday afternoon in November.

That’s a cheap shot at Akron football. The point is well made that every and I mean Every MAC School attendance would increase playing on Saturdays!

Thank you. I’m not trying to drag the MAC. App’s attendance would suffer greatly if we had to do years of Tuesday night home games. Boone weather in October/November/December can be miserable at night and we are in the middle of nowhere.

I’m just saying, I love watching App football and the atmosphere is arguably the MOST important part of what makes it great. I’m not sure I’d enjoy App football nearly as much if I could hear the guy on the other side of the field coughing. The allure of college football is the atmosphere. Dogs on the grill. Beers in the parking lot. Crisp fall air in the sun. Buzz of students/alumni/locals going to watch the game.

I’d rather App play Elon and Western Carolina again to guarantee that atmosphere. As opposed to what I’m seeing MAC programs go through. We’ve been lucky enough to sustain that in the SunBelt with our schedule and having 1 or 2 Thursday night games. However we’ve already been pushing back against the SunBelt scheduling our matchup against Ga Southern on Thursday night. The conference likes it because it is an ESPN2 game and a great showcase. Both fanbases hate it because we love Saturday football, tv be damned.

(05-12-2020 02:55 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-10-2020 10:41 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:48 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:36 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 11:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  FTFY

Announced attendance: 16,401
https://www.espn.com/college-football/ga...=401020772

Actual attendance: circa 300

I’m sure weather contributed here, but that’s just awful. I feel bad for the dedicated fans that actually love the Akron program.

I’m glad App State moved up to FBS, however if this was ever the result I’d be banging the drum to go back to FCS.

I’d much rather watch my alma mater on a crisp fall Saturday afternoon with 25k fans as a ranked FCS team than whatever that is above.

The problem being is that Akron probably wouldn't get 25k on a Saturday afternoon in November.

That’s a cheap shot at Akron football. The point is well made that every and I mean Every MAC School attendance would increase playing on Saturdays!

Thank you. I’m not trying to drag the MAC. App’s attendance would suffer greatly if we had to do years of Tuesday night home games. Boone weather in October/November/December can be miserable at night and we are in the middle of nowhere.

I’m just saying, I love watching App football and the atmosphere is arguably the MOST important part of what makes it great. I’m not sure I’d enjoy App football nearly as much if I could hear the guy on the other side of the field coughing. The allure of college football is the atmosphere. Dogs on the grill. Beers in the parking lot. Crisp fall air in the sun. Buzz of students/alumni/locals going to watch the game.

I’d rather App play Elon and Western Carolina again to guarantee that atmosphere. As opposed to what I’m seeing MAC programs go through. We’ve been lucky enough to sustain that in the SunBelt with our schedule and having 1 or 2 Thursday night games. However we’ve already been pushing back against the SunBelt scheduling our matchup against Ga Southern on Thursday night. The conference likes it because it is an ESPN2 game and a great showcase. Both fanbases hate it because we love Saturday football, tv be damned.

That sounds familiar. In the short run, you get money from ESPN and some exposure. In the long run you p*** off your fanbase and lower the long-term demand for the product. Just my opinion.

I doubt the Rubber Bowl looked much more full than that on Saturday, Nov. 19, 1994, when Akron hosted Ohio in a battle of two 0-10 schools.

The crowds in this conference have always been light for bad football in November.

(05-12-2020 04:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I doubt the Rubber Bowl looked much more full than that on Saturday, Nov. 19, 1994, when Akron hosted Ohio in a battle of two 0-10 schools.

The crowds in this conference have always been light for bad football in November.

Now they're light for good football in November.

(05-12-2020 04:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I doubt the Rubber Bowl looked much more full than that on Saturday, Nov. 19, 1994, when Akron hosted Ohio in a battle of two 0-10 schools.

The crowds in this conference have always been light for bad football in November.

FYI, those photos were for a 4-3 Akron team that scored its first win over a B1G school since the 1890s.

Point being any argument that “MAC crowds haven’t declined since weeknight football” citing attendance numbers is invalid because the attendance numbers listed are invalid. That game listed 16,401 but there were actually around 300 people in attendance.

And Akron is far from the only the school that’s the case. Attendance fudging is representative of 8-9 MAC teams.

Attendance numbers in the MAC have never been representative of the actual number of people in the stadium so citing attendance numbers to say that midweek game attendance has decreased is also invalid. There is no definitive proof of either opinion. There are no knowable facts about MAC attendance (if you think there are, please inform the rest of us) so people adopt opinions about it that they want. But there’s no truth there.

As an aside, I think that if someone wanted to do a serious study of MAC attendance 2000-2019 and had access to all twelve schools athletic departments records, they still would not be able to find records of actual paying fans in the stands for any number of schools or years. Any discussion of MAC issues based on attendance over time is pointless. You can hate midweek games because they are hard to get to for various reasons or love them because they give you more access to watch MAC games that you couldn’t get to in any event, but you can’t make an attendance argument based on fact. Trying to find real data on November Saturday attendance versus midweek attendance is a fool’s errand.

(05-13-2020 12:37 PM)axeme Wrote:  Attendance numbers in the MAC have never been representative of the actual number of people in the stadium so citing attendance numbers to say that midweek game attendance has decreased is also invalid. There is no definitive proof of either opinion. There are no knowable facts about MAC attendance (if you think there are, please inform the rest of us) so people adopt opinions about it that they want. But there’s no truth there.

As an aside, I think that if someone wanted to do a serious study of MAC attendance 2000-2019 and had access to all twelve schools athletic departments records, they still would not be able to find records of actual paying fans in the stands for any number of schools or years. Any discussion of MAC issues based on attendance over time is pointless. You can hate midweek games because they are hard to get to for various reasons or love them because they give you more access to watch MAC games that you couldn’t get to in any event, but you can’t make an attendance argument based on fact. Trying to find real data on November Saturday attendance versus midweek attendance is a fool’s errand.

Wall Street Journal released a database in 2018 showing each team's listed attendance vs scanned tickets via FOIA requests. Each athletic department tracks scanned tickets.

(05-13-2020 12:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 12:37 PM)axeme Wrote:  Attendance numbers in the MAC have never been representative of the actual number of people in the stadium so citing attendance numbers to say that midweek game attendance has decreased is also invalid. There is no definitive proof of either opinion. There are no knowable facts about MAC attendance (if you think there are, please inform the rest of us) so people adopt opinions about it that they want. But there’s no truth there.

As an aside, I think that if someone wanted to do a serious study of MAC attendance 2000-2019 and had access to all twelve schools athletic departments records, they still would not be able to find records of actual paying fans in the stands for any number of schools or years. Any discussion of MAC issues based on attendance over time is pointless. You can hate midweek games because they are hard to get to for various reasons or love them because they give you more access to watch MAC games that you couldn’t get to in any event, but you can’t make an attendance argument based on fact. Trying to find real data on November Saturday attendance versus midweek attendance is a fool’s errand.

Wall Street Journal released a database in 2018 showing each team's listed attendance vs scanned tickets via FOIA requests. Each athletic department tracks scanned tickets.

How far back did it go? I doubt one year would yield enough information to be useful here. Is there a breakdown by game? And can you access this information to determine if, over years, there is a difference in November attendance midweek vs. Saturday that is meaningful? You need a pretty good spread of years in the 2000s to be relevant and you also need to take weather into account. Comparing 40° and clear weather to snowy/rainy/cold/windy weather isn’t relevant either.

(05-13-2020 01:13 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 12:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 12:37 PM)axeme Wrote:  Attendance numbers in the MAC have never been representative of the actual number of people in the stadium so citing attendance numbers to say that midweek game attendance has decreased is also invalid. There is no definitive proof of either opinion. There are no knowable facts about MAC attendance (if you think there are, please inform the rest of us) so people adopt opinions about it that they want. But there’s no truth there.

As an aside, I think that if someone wanted to do a serious study of MAC attendance 2000-2019 and had access to all twelve schools athletic departments records, they still would not be able to find records of actual paying fans in the stands for any number of schools or years. Any discussion of MAC issues based on attendance over time is pointless. You can hate midweek games because they are hard to get to for various reasons or love them because they give you more access to watch MAC games that you couldn’t get to in any event, but you can’t make an attendance argument based on fact. Trying to find real data on November Saturday attendance versus midweek attendance is a fool’s errand.

Wall Street Journal released a database in 2018 showing each team's listed attendance vs scanned tickets via FOIA requests. Each athletic department tracks scanned tickets.

How far back did it go? I doubt one year would yield enough information to be useful here. Is there a breakdown by game? And can you access this information to determine if, over years, there is a difference in November attendance midweek vs. Saturday that is meaningful? You need a pretty good spread of years in the 2000s to be relevant and you also need to take weather into account. Comparing 40° and clear weather to snowy/rainy/cold/windy weather isn’t relevant either.

It was just for the one season. But WSJ only provided averages and no game-by-game data, which isn’t really useful, so you’re right that we’ll never see the data we need.

The point is that it pisses off the season ticket holders and if it does that, what does it do to the less serious fanbase? The less serious fanbase simply doesn't show up and we don't hear about it. They don't show up for any of the games as a result. So Saturday games are reduced also. Which means that the difference in attendance between midweek games and Saturday games is consistent - with everything dropping. So it looks like the midweek games are having less of an impact than they really have.

And it's a snowball rolling downhill. You get a little less attendance and it takes away from the atmosphere. Which means fewer students want to show up because it's less of an event. Which just snowballs.

(05-13-2020 12:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Wall Street Journal released a database in 2018 showing each team's listed attendance vs scanned tickets via FOIA requests. Each athletic department tracks scanned tickets.

The question is, how far back do scanned ticket counts actually go.

It would not be surprising to discover that the era of scanned tickets doesn't stretch back as far as the era of midweek #MACtion in some stadiums, with turnstile counts being more spotty in terms of their accuracy (especially re-entry versus new entries after halftime) and in terms of complete records being transferred from turnstile to paper to computer database.

(05-13-2020 04:53 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point is that it pisses off the season ticket holders and if it does that, what does it do to the less serious fanbase? The less serious fanbase simply doesn't show up and we don't hear about it.

It's not clear that it would have as big of an impact on the less serious fanbase ... fair weather fans get that name for a reason.

But this is part of the reason they should have Rivalry Week on the Third Saturday in October ... because that helps provide a ledge against the drops in November attendance from spilling backward into October.

(05-16-2020 10:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 04:53 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point is that it pisses off the season ticket holders and if it does that, what does it do to the less serious fanbase? The less serious fanbase simply doesn't show up and we don't hear about it.

It's not clear that it would have as big of an impact on the less serious fanbase ... fair weather fans get that name for a reason.

But this is part of the reason they should have Rivalry Week on the Third Saturday in October ... because that helps provide a ledge against the drops in November attendance from spilling backward into October.

I know Toledo doesn't consider us a rival, but considering that the West division came down to NIU vs. Toledo for most years for about a decade in a row, with none of those games on a Saturday, that's just messed up no matter how you look at it.

(05-16-2020 02:04 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-16-2020 10:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 04:53 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point is that it pisses off the season ticket holders and if it does that, what does it do to the less serious fanbase? The less serious fanbase simply doesn't show up and we don't hear about it.

It's not clear that it would have as big of an impact on the less serious fanbase ... fair weather fans get that name for a reason.

But this is part of the reason they should have Rivalry Week on the Third Saturday in October ... because that helps provide a ledge against the drops in November attendance from spilling backward into October.

I know Toledo doesn't consider us a rival, but considering that the West division came down to NIU vs. Toledo for most years for about a decade in a row, with none of those games on a Saturday, that's just messed up no matter how you look at it.

Yes, the three schools that don't have a fixed (or rotating) "Rivalry Week" game, I'd favor letting them pick a school to play Saturday the following week. If NIU wants Toledo, Ball State wants Miami and Buffalo wants ... I dunno, Kent State (closest), then so be it.