(03-16-2020 06:11 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The SEC Conference is the best in football. Of course they play in the NCAA Athletic Association. Once those guys graduate they go on to places like the NFL League where they can collect money from their ATM Machines.

I see what you did there.

The MAC is fine for the next 5 plus years. While I'm pro-MAC, most posters on UMassHoops think all they have to do is right basketball and the AAC will be a very real option. The Athletic Administration is probably more realistic. Carry on and think basketball will be improving rapidly and football slowly.

(03-31-2020 09:47 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(03-15-2020 04:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 09:29 PM)DeeHee33 Wrote:  

(03-14-2020 08:14 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  MAC Members,
Please let us not go through another thread of meaningless discussions of who should be in the MAC.

No, discussion about potential MAC members. ...

Except neither UCF nor Marshall are potential MAC members, under anything resembling current conditions closely enough to allow evidence-based arguments.

Under the extremely surprising and unforseen condition of a "School X" presenting itself as a compelling 13th member, JMU would seen to hold the inside track for a 14th full member, and under the even less likely prospect of a compelling FB-only #13, UMass might have a shot.

And both have been discussed to death, so neither discussion really needs to be reiterated now.

I read his post, such as it is, to be historical in nature about when UCF and Marshall were in the conference.

Why I asked, to find out whether it was a historical question or a question about potential members. The response was it was the latter.

The MAC doesn't need more members, it needs two or three of it's members to take the next step up in BBall to become a conference that regularly sends at-large teams to the NIT and in a good year has it's second best team at least in the discussion of the NCAA bubble teams.

Obviously my first preference is that Kent State be one of those teams, and if it is, I don't much mind who the other two are. Buffalo, Kent and Toledo for a Lake Erie trio (there's five to choose from for a Lake Erie trio), Ohio, Ball State ... whoever.

(04-05-2020 08:04 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 06:11 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The SEC Conference is the best in football. Of course they play in the NCAA Athletic Association. Once those guys graduate they go on to places like the NFL League where they can collect money from their ATM Machines.

I see what you did there.

While we're at it, please tell the Big Ten they have 14 members.

Since I'm not a regular poster on the MAC board, and since I'm a fan/graduate of a Sun Belt program (Appalachian), I would like to, out of respect for the regular posters here, see if y'all would be cool if I ran a poll on this board.

There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

Again, maybe this topic has been beaten to death, so I don't want to run a poll that does nothing more than annoy people, but if it's not a problem, I would like to know what you all think.

Also, I have a couple of quick questions about Northern Illinois.

(1) What made them decide to leave the MAC in 1986?

(2) What made them decide to return in 1997?

I assume, for the MAC's point of view, part of the motivation to add NIU back, along with adding back Marshall, was to set up the opportunity for a championship game.

(04-10-2020 10:55 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Also, I have a couple of quick questions about Northern Illinois.

(1) What made them decide to leave the MAC in 1986?

NCAA was going to force the MAC down to 1-AA for not meeting attendance requirements. NIU thought the MAC would boot EMU in order to remain above the 1-A threshold and scheduled 3 OOC Big Ten games leaving only 8 MAC slots instead of the required 9. In response, NIU canceled the Kent game. Short a game, the MAC arranged for Kent to host UTEP on NIU’s dime. NIU bolted for independence shortly thereafter thinking it could go big time in football. Applied for MVC in basketball but was rejected.


(2) What made them decide to return in 1997?

A (expensive) decade lost in the Big West/Independence wilderness.

I assume, for the MAC's point of view, part of the motivation to add NIU back, along with adding back Marshall, was to set up the opportunity for a championship game.

(04-11-2020 12:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:55 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Also, I have a couple of quick questions about Northern Illinois.

(1) What made them decide to leave the MAC in 1986?

NCAA was going to force the MAC down to 1-AA for not meeting attendance requirements. NIU thought the MAC would boot EMU in order to remain above the 1-A threshold and scheduled 3 OOC Big Ten games leaving only 8 MAC slots instead of the required 9. In response, NIU canceled the Kent game. Short a game, the MAC arranged for Kent to host UTEP on NIU’s dime. NIU bolted for independence shortly thereafter thinking it could go big time in football. Applied for MVC in basketball but was rejected.


(2) What made them decide to return in 1997?

A (expensive) decade lost in the Big West/Independence wilderness.

I assume, for the MAC's point of view, part of the motivation to add NIU back, along with adding back Marshall, was to set up the opportunity for a championship game.

Very interesting. Thanks so much for filling me in.

I had heard once that the B1G was pretty instrumental in helping the MAC stay at the 1-A level back in the 80's. That was pretty fortunate, not that the MAC wasn't worthy of staying 1-A. I do wonder why the SWC/SEC didn't go to bat for the Southland or why the ACC/SEC didn't do the same for the Southern.

(04-10-2020 07:21 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(04-05-2020 08:04 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-16-2020 06:11 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The SEC Conference is the best in football. Of course they play in the NCAA Athletic Association. Once those guys graduate they go on to places like the NFL League where they can collect money from their ATM Machines.

I see what you did there.

While we're at it, please tell the Big Ten they have 14 members.

That would appear to be a claim that of those 14, 10 of them are Big.

Lessee ... Buckeyes, that School Up North, Penn State ... uhh, on legacy Nebraska ... Michigan State if BBall counts ...

I don't know who the other five are, but I think those are included in the 10.

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Since I'm not a regular poster on the MAC board, and since I'm a fan/graduate of a Sun Belt program (Appalachian), I would like to, out of respect for the regular posters here, see if y'all would be cool if I ran a poll on this board.

There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

Again, maybe this topic has been beaten to death, so I don't want to run a poll that does nothing more than annoy people, but if it's not a problem, I would like to know what you all think.

I wouldn't say no expansion in the MAC is a consensus. Of course, it depends on the situation. I wouldn't have a problem with Marshall, but we'd need to add somebody else. North Dakota State in the West would be interesting, but they're not very suitable geographically and I don't think they'd want to move to FBS. And I don't think Marshall would want to play 1/3rd of their schedule on Tuesday nights in the MAC, and I couldn't blame them.

(03-16-2020 06:11 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  The SEC Conference is the best in football. Of course they play in the NCAA Athletic Association. Once those guys graduate they go on to places like the NFL League where they can collect money from their ATM Machines.

Do you work for the SEC Commission???

(04-11-2020 01:21 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(04-11-2020 12:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:55 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Also, I have a couple of quick questions about Northern Illinois.

(1) What made them decide to leave the MAC in 1986?

NCAA was going to force the MAC down to 1-AA for not meeting attendance requirements. NIU thought the MAC would boot EMU in order to remain above the 1-A threshold and scheduled 3 OOC Big Ten games leaving only 8 MAC slots instead of the required 9. In response, NIU canceled the Kent game. Short a game, the MAC arranged for Kent to host UTEP on NIU’s dime. NIU bolted for independence shortly thereafter thinking it could go big time in football. Applied for MVC in basketball but was rejected.


(2) What made them decide to return in 1997?

A (expensive) decade lost in the Big West/Independence wilderness.

I assume, for the MAC's point of view, part of the motivation to add NIU back, along with adding back Marshall, was to set up the opportunity for a championship game.

Very interesting. Thanks so much for filling me in.

I had heard once that the B1G was pretty instrumental in helping the MAC stay at the 1-A level back in the 80's. That was pretty fortunate, not that the MAC wasn't worthy of staying 1-A. I do wonder why the SWC/SEC didn't go to bat for the Southland or why the ACC/SEC didn't do the same for the Southern.

The B1G, PAC, MAC and Big West were not part of the CFA TV contract.

Thus they kept the MAC and Big West around to have backyard conferences for regional voting clout.

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

Informative. Thanks.

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

I'm not sure the origin of those thoughts by the commissioner but I believe Marshall is still open admissions and allows non-qualifiers to enroll on campus then qualify later.

Ohio doesn't allow non-qualifiers or partial qualifiers to stay on campus. They have to go to a JUCO.

As to the Med school comment Ohio is graduating more doctors than any medical college in Ohio between its 3 campuses (Athens, Dublin, Cleveland). Its Osteopathic but there is research out of the school with commercialized patents.

Both CMU and WMU have med schools.

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

The poster here is taking great liberty with bending the labels and numbers.

First of R2 doesn't place emphasis on the amount of research being done. The total dollar amount is much more important that these classification categories. This is what Buffalo has going for it.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

USWNR considers Marshall to be a regional college plus it has a small enrollment relative to MAC schools.

Its true that most of the MAC schools are not rated too high in the USNWR but if you dig into some of the other characteristics like endowment, enrollment or Kent's ARWU ranking they profile as major state universities over regional colleges.

Also the socioeconomic difference with MAC schools filled with kids from the suburbs of Midwest cities vs. Appalachian kids as the MAC is B1G overflow. In the south once you get beyond the SEC it becomes country bumpkin time.

The MAC would do better expanding for basketball into the Midwest for Illinois Chicago and Milwaukee to increase the amount of televised games and to saturate the region then trying to add 2 more FB mouths to feed. I would also give St. Louis a call from the A10 because while its a private school it has as many students as Marshall and an endowment over 1 billion dollars.

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.