(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

The poster here is taking great liberty with bending the labels and numbers.

First of R2 doesn't place emphasis on the amount of research being done. The total dollar amount is much more important that these classification categories. This is what Buffalo has going for it.
Doctoral Universities

Includes institutions that awarded at least 20 research/scholarship doctoral degrees during the update year and also institutions with below 20 research/scholarship doctoral degrees that awarded at least 30 professional practice doctoral degrees in at least 2 programs. Excludes Special Focus Institutions and Tribal Colleges.

The first two categories include only institutions that awarded at least 20 research/scholarship doctoral degrees and had at least $5 million in total research expenditures (as reported through the National Science Foundation (NSF) Higher Education Research & Development Survey (HERD)).

R1: Doctoral Universities – Very high research activity
R2: Doctoral Universities – High research activity
D/PU: Doctoral/Professional Universities
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/c.../basic.php



Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.
OU Ostepathic school was founded in 1975 and The Joan Edwards Medical at Marshall was founded in 1977. If you use USWNR as reference MU Medical School and OU's ostepathic schools seem to be rated about the same. MU's Medical School has 284 full time faculity and OU has 117 full time staff. Staff to student ration of 0.8:1 at Marshall and OU has a ratio of 0.1:1. Isn't teacher to student ratios important?
https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sch...sity-04123
https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sch...mpus-04141

A quick google check shows medical school applicants have a higher MEDCAT scores than osteopathic applicants. I would live to see a link to the above quoted grade averages. I mean disrespect to osteopathic schools.
https://www.sgu.edu/blog/medical/md-vers...versus-do/

USWNR considers Marshall to be a regional college plus it has a small enrollment relative to MAC schools.
https://www.sgu.edu/blog/medical/md-versus-do/

I don't believe USNWR has updated their rankings since Marshall achieved their R2 ranking.

Also the socioeconomic difference with MAC schools filled with kids from the suburbs of Midwest cities vs. Appalachian kids as the MAC is B1G overflow. In the south once you get beyond the SEC it becomes country bumpkin time.
ACC schools like Duke and UNC are just country bumpkin southern schools?

Would you be able to provide some credible links to the above assertions? Oh never mind, I will just drop it.

(04-15-2020 09:35 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  Both CMU and WMU have med schools.

I didn't realize that, very good information. I grew up in Huntington and a good friend's brother-in-law took a teaching job in Michigan and obtained his Master's Degree from CMU. Another high school friend accepted a baseball scholarship from WMU (the WMU baseball coach was the former baseball coach at Marshall). Both guys spoke very highly of CMU and WMU.

(04-16-2020 01:21 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.

The MCAT minimum at Marshall is 496. Ohio's MCAT average of 503 is pretty good for an Osteopathic school

For a med school that is poor. For an Osteopathic school its very good.

https://jcesom.marshall.edu/admissions/a...-criteria/

https://www.studentdoctor.net/schools/sc...rankings/0

You are trying to knock the Osteopathic college because its not a traditional Medical College yet the comparison is a very good D.O. school compared to a mediocre med school.

74.4% of Marshall's students come from WV with another 10.9% Ohio and 3.4% from Kentucky. The way that reads to me is about 90% of Marshall students are within a 1 hour radius.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/...rsity.html

Ohio, OTOH only has 17% of its in-state student body from SEO. Most are from the suburbs and small cities across the state.

See page 18 for the map. Biggest one county sources are from Columbus and Cleveland.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

Just because we aren't pulling the research dollars of Buffalo doesn't mean we don't have a comparable state wide profile as many of the P5 universities.

As to my comment about not much down south once you get beyond the SEC was in reference to Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and you can throw West Virginia in there too. My point is what exists of higher socionomic kids in those states end up at the SEC schools.

Midwest has a lot of big and competitive high schools of kids looking to go away to a residential state school, more than what the B1G could possibly absorb so the MAC serves as alternate campuses and choice for the region.

(04-16-2020 03:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 01:21 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.

The MCAT minimum at Marshall is 496. Ohio's MCAT average of 503 is pretty good for an Osteopathic school

For a med school that is poor. For an Osteopathic school its very good.

https://jcesom.marshall.edu/admissions/a...-criteria/

https://www.studentdoctor.net/schools/sc...rankings/0

You are trying to knock the Osteopathic college because its not a traditional Medical College yet the comparison is a very good D.O. school compared to a mediocre med school.

I am not "trying to knock" osteopathic" schools. I see in your link OU is ranked at the same level as Liberty.

Student Doctor Network is a nonprofit educational organization founded in 1999 for prehealth and health professional students in the United States and Canada.[4] It focuses on 9 core healthcare professions: medical, dental, optometry, pharmacy, physical therapy, podiatry, psychology, rehabilitation medicine, and veterinary medicine.

The Student Doctor Network (SDN) has over 100 volunteers, and over 50,000 active members. The SDN website receives over 2.5 million unique visits and 17 million page views monthly.[5] The site publishes daily articles and features pertinent to medical education.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Doctor_Network

The link you provided doesn't sound reliable.

(04-16-2020 03:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 01:21 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.

The MCAT minimum at Marshall is 496. Ohio's MCAT average of 503 is pretty good for an Osteopathic school

For a med school that is poor. For an Osteopathic school its very good.

https://jcesom.marshall.edu/admissions/a...-criteria/

https://www.studentdoctor.net/schools/sc...rankings/0

You are trying to knock the Osteopathic college because its not a traditional Medical College yet the comparison is a very good D.O. school compared to a mediocre med school.

Not knocking osteopathic schools, but it sounds like you are saying a "poor" medical school is better than osteopathic school?

(04-16-2020 03:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 01:21 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:43 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  FWIW Dept. Marshall is now a Carnegie R2 Research institution like most of the other MAC schools. It has a Medical school which I think only Toledo and UB are the only MAC schools with a Medical school? I think OU has an osteopathic school? Marshall has a Pharmacy School which I think UT and UB are the only other MAC schools with that program. UB and Miami are by far the best schools in the MAC and are nationally recognized and Marshal is not at that level like most of the other MAC schools.

https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.

The MCAT minimum at Marshall is 496. Ohio's MCAT average of 503 is pretty good for an Osteopathic school

For a med school that is poor. For an Osteopathic school its very good.

https://jcesom.marshall.edu/admissions/a...-criteria/

[/b]So you are saying Medical Schools are held to a higher standard than a osteopathic school? Shame on you.

https://www.studentdoctor.net/schools/sc...rankings/0

Student Doctor Network is a nonprofit educational organization founded in 1999 for prehealth and health professional students in the United States and Canada.[4] It focuses on 9 core healthcare professions: medical, dental, optometry, pharmacy, physical therapy, podiatry, psychology, rehabilitation medicine, and veterinary medicine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_Doctor_Network\

Sounds like a Facebook type web site.


You are trying to knock the Osteopathic college because its not a traditional Medical College yet the comparison is a very good D.O. school compared to a mediocre med school.

I see OU is ranked at about the same level at Liberty University per your link. Interesting.

(04-16-2020 04:23 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  74.4% of Marshall's students come from WV with another 10.9% Ohio and 3.4% from Kentucky. The way that reads to me is about 90% of Marshall students are within a 1 hour radius.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/...rsity.html

Ohio, OTOH only has 17% of its in-state student body from SEO. Most are from the suburbs and small cities across the state.

See page 18 for the map. Biggest one county sources are from Columbus and Cleveland.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

Just because we aren't pulling the research dollars of Buffalo doesn't mean we don't have a comparable state wide profile as many of the P5 universities.

As to my comment about not much down south once you get beyond the SEC was in reference to Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and you can throw West Virginia in there too. My point is what exists of higher socionomic kids in those states end up at the SEC schools.

Midwest has a lot of big and competitive high schools of kids looking to go away to a residential state school, more than what the B1G could possibly absorb so the MAC serves as alternate campuses and choice for the region.

What is your opinion of HBC schools? You posts make you sound like a very bigoted person. Sad.

(04-16-2020 05:12 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 01:21 PM)shankapotamus1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 03:58 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 06:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Right. R2 research institution isn’t something for the MAC to scoff at at all. I’d be curious for a link to him saying that.

Secondly he is comparing a D.O. school at Ohio with a 3.7 average GPA and enrollment close to 1,000 that has been around almost 50 years to brand new MD schools at Marshall, CMU and WMU which are much smaller. Marshall the minimum GPA is 3.0 so that would tell you something of the quality.

Marshall's average GPA is 3.6, minimum means nothing. Ohio has no minimum, according to your logic "that would tell you something of the quality."

From Ohio: "competitive applicants typically have at least a 3.6 science GPA" Pretty similar to Marshall if you ask me.

The MCAT minimum at Marshall is 496. Ohio's MCAT average of 503 is pretty good for an Osteopathic school

For a med school that is poor. For an Osteopathic school its very good.

https://jcesom.marshall.edu/admissions/a...-criteria/

https://www.studentdoctor.net/schools/sc...rankings/0

You are trying to knock the Osteopathic college because its not a traditional Medical College yet the comparison is a very good D.O. school compared to a mediocre med school.

Not knocking osteopathic schools, but it sounds like you are saying a "poor" medical school is better than osteopathic school?

My bad I thought you were knocking it because I've heard it knocked before on here.

OU's Osteopathic Medicine school is a significant operation with 3 campuses and is the sole Osteopathic school for the state with a 1,000 students, most of any medical school in state. Its now in the Top 10 in terms of enrollment of all Osteopathic Colleges in the USA.

https://choosedo.org/ohio-university-her...e-ou-hcom/

Compare that to the size of G5 Medical Colleges

UConn 483
New Mexico 455
CMU 408
Marshall 336
FAU 256
UNLV 180

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-1..._B-1.2.pdf

(04-16-2020 05:28 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  

(04-16-2020 04:23 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  74.4% of Marshall's students come from WV with another 10.9% Ohio and 3.4% from Kentucky. The way that reads to me is about 90% of Marshall students are within a 1 hour radius.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/...rsity.html

Ohio, OTOH only has 17% of its in-state student body from SEO. Most are from the suburbs and small cities across the state.

See page 18 for the map. Biggest one county sources are from Columbus and Cleveland.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

Just because we aren't pulling the research dollars of Buffalo doesn't mean we don't have a comparable state wide profile as many of the P5 universities.

As to my comment about not much down south once you get beyond the SEC was in reference to Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and you can throw West Virginia in there too. My point is what exists of higher socionomic kids in those states end up at the SEC schools.

Midwest has a lot of big and competitive high schools of kids looking to go away to a residential state school, more than what the B1G could possibly absorb so the MAC serves as alternate campuses and choice for the region.

What is your opinion of HBC schools? You posts make you sound like a very bigoted person. Sad.

They don't have MAC profiles either and they aren't getting in.

When someone says their university is R2 and medical school all that means in my eyes is the university is Division 1 caliber. Horizon League material or Ohio Valley Conference.

JMU is a residential school that has a MAC profile. Another one which seems like a MAC school is Appalachian St with the residential campus and large population of North Carolina.

I'm trying to answer why Steinbrecher feels Marshall is a step down academically and its driven by regional bias. Most MAC fans do not think that way and look more at whether school X can be competitive.

(04-11-2020 12:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  [quote='Michael in Raleigh' pid='16773821' dateline='1586577351']
Also, I have a couple of quick questions about Northern Illinois.

(1) What made them decide to leave the MAC in 1986?

NCAA was going to force the MAC down to 1-AA for not meeting attendance requirements. NIU thought the MAC would boot EMU in order to remain above the 1-A threshold and scheduled 3 OOC Big Ten games leaving only 8 MAC slots instead of the required 9. In response, NIU canceled the Kent game. Short a game, the MAC arranged for Kent to host UTEP on NIU’s dime. NIU bolted for independence shortly thereafter thinking it could go big time in football. Applied for MVC in basketball but was rejected.

Interesting story. Has this ever been reported in the media?

The part of this that raises an eyebrow for me is the idea that demotion to I-AA was imminent in 1985-86. The MAC did play I-AA for a couple of years, including 1982. But the problem was corrected by 1985. I didn't realize it was a serious risk after that.

I do seem to remember the Detroit News reporting many years ago that Eastern Michigan was in danger of getting pushed out of the league for some reason. I believe the paper mentioned this to underscore how shocking it was for Eastern Michigan to have won the MAC football championship in 1987.

As far as Marshall: I'd welcome them back. Having them in the conference (the second time, at least) was a whole lot of fun.

If North Dakota State was also willing to come in for football, I think we'd have to look at that. The geography is not ideal, but that program is amazing.

(04-17-2020 02:39 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  As far as Marshall: I'd welcome them back. Having them in the conference (the second time, at least) was a whole lot of fun.

If North Dakota State was also willing to come in for football, I think we'd have to look at that. The geography is not ideal, but that program is amazing.

I don't know about the financial aspects but that would be very interesting. I'd be for that.

Is the long argument over whether the MAC doesn't want to invite Marshall more or Marshall doesn't want to join the MAC more over? Given that either is sufficient, when both is true it would seem pointless to argue over which is stronger.

The main problem with adding NDSU is that every expansion weakens the cohesion of a conference, and it becomes only more important to eliminate the locked Bowling Green / Toledo cross division game if we go from three cross division games to two. So adding NDSU football only requires a second school either all-sports or FB-only to add to the Western division. Most of the prospective candidates for a #14 seem to be on the eastern side.

(04-18-2020 05:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Is the long argument over whether the MAC doesn't want to invite Marshall more or Marshall doesn't want to join the MAC more over? Given that either is sufficient, when both is true it would seem pointless to argue over which is stronger.

The correct word would be “if”. We don’t know whether the MAC would invite Marshall. Considering Marshall has a bigger fan base than any MAC school, and leagues typically don’t pass on inviting schools with larger fan bases than any of their own, the evidence isn’t there to unilaterally claim as a fact the MAC wouldn’t accept Marshall.

We don’t know whether Marshall does or doesn’t want to join the MAC. There is a longtime poster on Marshall’s board, who’ve other posters have vouched for his identity and credibility, claiming the administration is now considering the MAC.

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

We are an R2 research institution. I think that is being exaggerated quite a bit.

I like most of the MAC schools. My biggest concern is playing Tues/Weds night home games.

I would love to share a conference with Toledo, Ohio, Western Michigan, and NIU. Just don't want to play you all on a Tuesday night.

(04-18-2020 08:09 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(04-15-2020 02:26 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(04-10-2020 10:38 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There is a discussion on the realignment board about the idea of Marshall leaving C-USA and returning to the MAC as the 13th full member. I'm interested in where the different fanbases of the MAC stand on that idea. I know there are number of MAC fans who don't want expansion, period. But is that a total consensus?

The commissioner has said the following.

-Would only consider UConn FB only if it is a GREAT financial move for the MAC.

-Said outright that he feels Marshall is not a good fit for the MAC and would be an academic downgrade compared to the institutions there.

Given the COVID landscape we live in expansion sounds like a non-starter. Marshall and App State I could see putting together a new conference that is more regional.

We are an R2 research institution. I think that is being exaggerated quite a bit.

I like most of the MAC schools. My biggest concern is playing Tues/Weds night home games.

I would love to share a conference with Toledo, Ohio, Western Michigan, and NIU. Just don't want to play you all on a Tuesday night.

Can't blame you for that.

Quote:I like most of the MAC schools. My biggest concern is playing Tues/Weds night home games.

Well, if all college football is nixed this year besides the MAC, you'd be enjoying Tues/Wed night games -- or games of ANY day or night! :)

Marshall would be more likely to join the MAC -- not anyone from the AAC, obviously. If post-COVID the CUSA loses a lot of new FBS teams while the CUSA is shaky, I could see them coming. It wouldn't be a step "down", as CUSA has changed (best teams went to AAC), and Marshall's been there before, too.

But obviously anyone joining the MAC, we'd want the top teams to join -- or some up-and-coming team/university in a good crowd location with tons of $$ poured into their establishment like how UCF was. All while not being in the deep south, for transportation reasons (the rusty MAC bus can only put so many miles on it).

The only way I see FBS teams joining the MAC would be if CUSA starts crumbling some or some Independent starts doing decently well (like UMass thought they would) -- and wants to join. Sun Belt->CUSA, for the past few years I've seen as really not happening anymore.

Unless an increased travel budget is no-problem -- I'd see Marshall & Mid-Tenn State being additions (ya have to go in pairs).

That said, I only want conferences to have 12 teams. More than that thins the Herd (no pun intended).