(03-26-2020 08:51 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I did a few conferences from USNWR. Happy to do others upon request.

Big East
#24 Georgetown
#46 Villanova
#64 UConn
#84 Marquette
#104 Creighton
#125 DePaul
#139 Seton Hall
#179 St. John's
Regional NE #1 Providence
Regional MW #1 Butler
Regional MW #5 Xavier

AAC
#40 Tulane
#64 SMU
#104 Temple
#104 USF
#121 Tulsa
#139 Cincinnati
#166 UCF
#185 Houston
#228 ECU
#272 Memphis
#293-381 Wichita State

Atlantic 10
#23 Richmond
#64 UMass
#70 George Washington
#74 Fordham
#97 Saint Louis
#132 Dayton
#132 Duquesne
#153 George Mason
#162 VCU
#166 Rhode Island
Liberal Arts National #17 Davidson
Regional NE #10 St. Joseph
Regional NE #19 St. Bonaventure
Regional NE #38 La Salle

MWC
#147 San Diego State
#166 Colorado State
#166 Hawaii
#211 Fresno State
#218 New Mexico
#228 Wyoming
#240 Nevada
#254 Utah State
#293-#381 UNLV
#293-#381 Boise State
Regional W #24 San Jose State

What's the WCC look like?

WCC
#50 Pepperdine
#54 Santa Clara
#64 LMU
#77 BYU
#79 Gonzaga
#91 San Diego
#97 San Francisco
#125 Pacific
Regional NW #2 Portland
Regional W #5 St. Mary's

Using the Carnegie Research Classification Tiers:

#1 AAC:
Tier 1: Houston, Tulane, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Temple, UCONN
Tier 2: SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, East Carolina, Wichita State

#2 C-USA:
Tier 1: FIU, UAB, Rice, UT-El Paso, North Texas, Southern Miss
Tier 2: FAU, UNC-Charlotte, UT-San Antonio, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, Old Dominion

#3 MWC:
Tier 1: Colorado State, Hawaii, UNLV, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State
Tier 2: Boise State, Utah State, Wyoming

#4 Sun Belt:
Tier 1: Georgia State, UT-Arlington
Tier 2: Georgia Southern, Texas State, UL-Lafayette, South Alabama, Arkansas State, Arkansas-Little Rock

#5 MAC:
Tier 1: Buffalo
Tier 2: Akron, Ball State, Bowling Green, CMU, EMU, Kent State, Miami OH, NIU, Ohio, Toledo, WMU

Only wanted to do Group of 5 schools, but a comprehensive list can be found here

(03-26-2020 10:04 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  WCC
#50 Pepperdine
#54 Santa Clara
#64 LMU
#77 BYU
#79 Gonzaga
#91 San Diego
#97 San Francisco
#125 Pacific
Regional NW #2 Portland
Regional W #5 St. Mary's

Better than I expected. That really could be a reasonably high-level conference if they collectively put their minds to basketball.

(03-26-2020 10:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Using the Carnegie Research Classification Tiers:

#1 AAC:
Tier 1: Houston, Tulane, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Temple, UCONN
Tier 2: SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, East Carolina, Wichita State

#2 C-USA:
Tier 1: FIU, UAB, Rice, UT-El Paso, North Texas, Southern Miss
Tier 2: FAU, UNC-Charlotte, UT-San Antonio, Louisiana Tech, Marshall, Old Dominion

#3 MWC:
Tier 1: Colorado State, Hawaii, UNLV, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State
Tier 2: Boise State, Utah State, Wyoming

#4 Sun Belt:
Tier 1: Georgia State, UT-Arlington
Tier 2: Georgia Southern, Texas State, UL-Lafayette, South Alabama, Arkansas State, Arkansas-Little Rock

#5 MAC:
Tier 1: Buffalo
Tier 2: Akron, Ball State, Bowling Green, CMU, EMU, Kent State, Miami OH, NIU, Ohio, Toledo, WMU

Only wanted to do Group of 5 schools, but a comprehensive list can be found here

Big Sky

Tier 1: UC-Davis (FB only), Montana State
Tier 2: Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Northern Arizona University, Portland State

Summit
Tier 1:
Tier 2: North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota, South Dakota State, Nebraska-Omaha, UMKC

For the USNWR rankings of AAC and MWC, why are Air Force and Navy not included?

I should know this but can't recall. Must have something to do with service academies being a "different animal."

(03-25-2020 05:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:33 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 02:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 02:05 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  It's a bball conference, but America East is pretty well regarded academically

Yup - and like the Big Sky and Summit, full of Flagship Universities and Stony Brook is AAU

Only non-P5 D1 Conferences that have AAU members

Ivy: All 8 of course
Big West: UC-Davis (Football Big Sky), UCSB, UCI, UCSD
Patriot - BU
America East: Stony Brook
MAC: Buffalo
AAC: Tulane
C-USA: Rice

Excluding P5 and Ivy League schools, there are 13 D1 schools in the US News & World Report top 50 national universities:

17 Rice (Conference USA)
24 Georgetown (Big East)
34 UC Santa Barbara (Big West)
36 UC Irvine (Big West)
37 UC San Diego (Big West)
39 UC Davis (Big West)
40 Boston University (Patriot League)
40 William & Mary (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Northeastern (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Tulane (American Athletic Conference)
46 Villanova (Big East)
50 Lehigh (Patriot League)
50 Pepperdine (West Coast Conference)

Totals by conference:

Big West - 4 (34, 36, 37, 39)
Big East - 2 (24, 46)
Patriot League - 2 (40, 50)
Colonial Athletic Association - 2 (40, 40)
Conference USA - 1 (17)
American Athletic Association - 1 (40)
West Coast Conference - 1 (50)

Taking this together with the AAU member data, the Big West would rank second after the Ivy League, followed by the Patriot League and then probably the Big East.

The Lieden ranking is better. It ranks the top 173 schools by research output.
Here it is, excluding P5, D2, D3, and Ivies:

12 Univ California - San Diego - Big West
44 Univ Cincinnati - American
46 Univ California - Irvine - Big West
48 Boston Univ - Patriot
54 Univ Illinois - Chicago - Horizon
56 Univ Connecticut - Big East
61 Univ Alabama - Birmingham - C-USA
65 Indiana Univ - Purdue Univ Indianapolis - Horizon
71 Univ S Florida - Tampa - American
73 Univ California - Santa Barbara - Big West
75 Colorado State Univ - Mountain West
76 Univ Maryland - Baltimore - America East
81 Stony Brook Univ - SUNY - America East
82 Virginia Commonwealth Univ - Atlantic 10
87 Univ Massachusetts Amherst - Atlantic 10
91 Univ Hawaii - Manoa - Mountain West
93 Univ California - Riverside - Big West
94 Temple Univ - American
95 Univ New Mexico - Mountain West
96 Univ Houston - Houston - American
97 Univ Delaware - America East
98 George Washington Univ - Atlantic 10

Conferences ranked:
American - 4 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big West - 4 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Mountain West - 3 in top 100, 8 in top 173
America East - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Atlantic 10 - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Horizon - 2 in top 100, 3 in top 173
Conference USA - 1 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big East - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Patriot - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Mid-American - 0 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Missouri Valley - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Sun Belt - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Big Sky - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Colonial - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Summit - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
WAC - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
West Coast - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173


American, Mountain West, A-10, Conference USA and America East do much better by this metric than US News.

The Lieden rankings provide valuable insight into research capabilities; research is only one component into the academic review of an institution. Many do not like using USNWR academic rankings. However, their ranking system is comprised of several factors (graduation rates, social mobility, faculty resources, expert opinion, financial resources, student excellence and alumni giving). For example, Notre Dame, under Lieden, is #117 overall; Penn State is 21st. Penn State's admissions rate is 50%, where as ND's is 18%. Again, Lieden is just viewing through the research lens, where as USNWR views multiple lens.

Yes, Lieden is looking just at a research view.

But USNWR is not looking at multiple views. USNWR is looking almost exclusively at undergraduate education, with a particular focus on liberal arts education.

That's why USNWR can select Brown as #14 and Rice as #17 despite Brown and Rice being #215 and #484 in the Lieden ranking. William & Mary is #40 is US News despite not even being in the top 1000 in the Lieden Ranking.

(03-25-2020 02:27 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  UVM considered a Public Ivy

Binghamton is tougher to get into than all the SUNY's but Stony Brook and maybe Geneseo. They don't have a med school or a law school, though.

(03-26-2020 04:05 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 02:27 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  UVM considered a Public Ivy

Binghamton is tougher to get into than all the SUNY's but Stony Brook and maybe Geneseo. They don't have a med school or a law school, though.

UVM is the University of Vermont

(03-26-2020 11:50 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  For the USNWR rankings of AAC and MWC, why are Air Force and Navy not included?

I should know this but can't recall. Must have something to do with service academies being a "different animal."

They're included in a different category. Liberal Arts or something like that instead of "national universities."

(03-26-2020 01:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 05:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:33 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 02:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Yup - and like the Big Sky and Summit, full of Flagship Universities and Stony Brook is AAU

Only non-P5 D1 Conferences that have AAU members

Ivy: All 8 of course
Big West: UC-Davis (Football Big Sky), UCSB, UCI, UCSD
Patriot - BU
America East: Stony Brook
MAC: Buffalo
AAC: Tulane
C-USA: Rice

Excluding P5 and Ivy League schools, there are 13 D1 schools in the US News & World Report top 50 national universities:

17 Rice (Conference USA)
24 Georgetown (Big East)
34 UC Santa Barbara (Big West)
36 UC Irvine (Big West)
37 UC San Diego (Big West)
39 UC Davis (Big West)
40 Boston University (Patriot League)
40 William & Mary (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Northeastern (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Tulane (American Athletic Conference)
46 Villanova (Big East)
50 Lehigh (Patriot League)
50 Pepperdine (West Coast Conference)

Totals by conference:

Big West - 4 (34, 36, 37, 39)
Big East - 2 (24, 46)
Patriot League - 2 (40, 50)
Colonial Athletic Association - 2 (40, 40)
Conference USA - 1 (17)
American Athletic Association - 1 (40)
West Coast Conference - 1 (50)

Taking this together with the AAU member data, the Big West would rank second after the Ivy League, followed by the Patriot League and then probably the Big East.

The Lieden ranking is better. It ranks the top 173 schools by research output.
Here it is, excluding P5, D2, D3, and Ivies:

12 Univ California - San Diego - Big West
44 Univ Cincinnati - American
46 Univ California - Irvine - Big West
48 Boston Univ - Patriot
54 Univ Illinois - Chicago - Horizon
56 Univ Connecticut - Big East
61 Univ Alabama - Birmingham - C-USA
65 Indiana Univ - Purdue Univ Indianapolis - Horizon
71 Univ S Florida - Tampa - American
73 Univ California - Santa Barbara - Big West
75 Colorado State Univ - Mountain West
76 Univ Maryland - Baltimore - America East
81 Stony Brook Univ - SUNY - America East
82 Virginia Commonwealth Univ - Atlantic 10
87 Univ Massachusetts Amherst - Atlantic 10
91 Univ Hawaii - Manoa - Mountain West
93 Univ California - Riverside - Big West
94 Temple Univ - American
95 Univ New Mexico - Mountain West
96 Univ Houston - Houston - American
97 Univ Delaware - America East
98 George Washington Univ - Atlantic 10

Conferences ranked:
American - 4 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big West - 4 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Mountain West - 3 in top 100, 8 in top 173
America East - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Atlantic 10 - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Horizon - 2 in top 100, 3 in top 173
Conference USA - 1 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big East - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Patriot - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Mid-American - 0 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Missouri Valley - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Sun Belt - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Big Sky - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Colonial - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Summit - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
WAC - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
West Coast - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173


American, Mountain West, A-10, Conference USA and America East do much better by this metric than US News.

The Lieden rankings provide valuable insight into research capabilities; research is only one component into the academic review of an institution. Many do not like using USNWR academic rankings. However, their ranking system is comprised of several factors (graduation rates, social mobility, faculty resources, expert opinion, financial resources, student excellence and alumni giving). For example, Notre Dame, under Lieden, is #117 overall; Penn State is 21st. Penn State's admissions rate is 50%, where as ND's is 18%. Again, Lieden is just viewing through the research lens, where as USNWR views multiple lens.

Yes, Lieden is looking just at a research view.

But USNWR is not looking at multiple views. USNWR is looking almost exclusively at undergraduate education, with a particular focus on liberal arts education.

That's why USNWR can select Brown as #14 and Rice as #17 despite Brown and Rice being #215 and #484 in the Lieden ranking. William & Mary is #40 is US News despite not even being in the top 1000 in the Lieden Ranking.

I'm obviously biased, but I don't think there's a world where W&M isn't a top 100 university in the US, let alone top 1,000 (Most rankings generally put us in the 30-50 range). ~33% admissions rate, 6,500 undergrads and we're closing in on a billion dollar endowment.

CAA Rankings, by USNWR:

40 - W&M
40 - Northeastern
84 - Elon
91 - Delaware
97 - Drexel
162 - Hofstra
185 - UNC Wilmington
197 - Towson
3 (South) - James Madison
8 (South) - College of Charleston

Honestly pretty decent overall

(03-26-2020 10:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  CAA Rankings, by USNWR:

40 - W&M
40 - Northeastern
84 - Elon
91 - Delaware
97 - Drexel
162 - Hofstra
185 - UNC Wilmington
197 - Towson
3 (South) - James Madison
8 (South) - College of Charleston

Honestly pretty decent overall

I'll always get a laugh at Elon 84th and Drexel in the top 100.

(03-26-2020 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 11:50 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  For the USNWR rankings of AAC and MWC, why are Air Force and Navy not included?

I should know this but can't recall. Must have something to do with service academies being a "different animal."

They're included in a different category. Liberal Arts or something like that instead of "national universities."

Ah, cool. thanks, Bullet.

(03-26-2020 10:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  CAA Rankings, by USNWR:

40 - W&M
40 - Northeastern
84 - Elon
91 - Delaware
97 - Drexel
162 - Hofstra
185 - UNC Wilmington
197 - Towson
3 (South) - James Madison
8 (South) - College of Charleston

Honestly pretty decent overall

Extremely respectable. A collection of fine schools.

(03-26-2020 09:55 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 01:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 05:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:33 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Excluding P5 and Ivy League schools, there are 13 D1 schools in the US News & World Report top 50 national universities:

17 Rice (Conference USA)
24 Georgetown (Big East)
34 UC Santa Barbara (Big West)
36 UC Irvine (Big West)
37 UC San Diego (Big West)
39 UC Davis (Big West)
40 Boston University (Patriot League)
40 William & Mary (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Northeastern (Colonial Athletic Association)
40 Tulane (American Athletic Conference)
46 Villanova (Big East)
50 Lehigh (Patriot League)
50 Pepperdine (West Coast Conference)

Totals by conference:

Big West - 4 (34, 36, 37, 39)
Big East - 2 (24, 46)
Patriot League - 2 (40, 50)
Colonial Athletic Association - 2 (40, 40)
Conference USA - 1 (17)
American Athletic Association - 1 (40)
West Coast Conference - 1 (50)

Taking this together with the AAU member data, the Big West would rank second after the Ivy League, followed by the Patriot League and then probably the Big East.

The Lieden ranking is better. It ranks the top 173 schools by research output.
Here it is, excluding P5, D2, D3, and Ivies:

12 Univ California - San Diego - Big West
44 Univ Cincinnati - American
46 Univ California - Irvine - Big West
48 Boston Univ - Patriot
54 Univ Illinois - Chicago - Horizon
56 Univ Connecticut - Big East
61 Univ Alabama - Birmingham - C-USA
65 Indiana Univ - Purdue Univ Indianapolis - Horizon
71 Univ S Florida - Tampa - American
73 Univ California - Santa Barbara - Big West
75 Colorado State Univ - Mountain West
76 Univ Maryland - Baltimore - America East
81 Stony Brook Univ - SUNY - America East
82 Virginia Commonwealth Univ - Atlantic 10
87 Univ Massachusetts Amherst - Atlantic 10
91 Univ Hawaii - Manoa - Mountain West
93 Univ California - Riverside - Big West
94 Temple Univ - American
95 Univ New Mexico - Mountain West
96 Univ Houston - Houston - American
97 Univ Delaware - America East
98 George Washington Univ - Atlantic 10

Conferences ranked:
American - 4 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big West - 4 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Mountain West - 3 in top 100, 8 in top 173
America East - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Atlantic 10 - 3 in top 100, 7 in top 173
Horizon - 2 in top 100, 3 in top 173
Conference USA - 1 in top 100, 8 in top 173
Big East - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Patriot - 1 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Mid-American - 0 in top 100, 4 in top 173
Missouri Valley - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Sun Belt - 0 in top 100, 2 in top 173
Big Sky - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Colonial - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
Summit - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
WAC - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173
West Coast - 0 in top 100, 1 in top 173


American, Mountain West, A-10, Conference USA and America East do much better by this metric than US News.

The Lieden rankings provide valuable insight into research capabilities; research is only one component into the academic review of an institution. Many do not like using USNWR academic rankings. However, their ranking system is comprised of several factors (graduation rates, social mobility, faculty resources, expert opinion, financial resources, student excellence and alumni giving). For example, Notre Dame, under Lieden, is #117 overall; Penn State is 21st. Penn State's admissions rate is 50%, where as ND's is 18%. Again, Lieden is just viewing through the research lens, where as USNWR views multiple lens.

Yes, Lieden is looking just at a research view.

But USNWR is not looking at multiple views. USNWR is looking almost exclusively at undergraduate education, with a particular focus on liberal arts education.

That's why USNWR can select Brown as #14 and Rice as #17 despite Brown and Rice being #215 and #484 in the Lieden ranking. William & Mary is #40 is US News despite not even being in the top 1000 in the Lieden Ranking.

I'm obviously biased, but I don't think there's a world where W&M isn't a top 100 university in the US, let alone top 1,000 (Most rankings generally put us in the 30-50 range). ~33% admissions rate, 6,500 undergrads and we're closing in on a billion dollar endowment.

They aren’t when it’s grad school based but like Miami University in Ohio they are a very good undergraduate institution. Both schools were in the original list of a dozen or so public ivies

When it comes to academics, different things matter to different constituencies:

Parents and Students ..... US News is all that matters because this is what the media cares about. Nobody cares about AAU, Chinese 1000, Leiden, or anything else.

Administrators .............. Because US News matters to parents and students, this is largely what matters to them. Admins also care about technical academic issues related to government and accrediting agencies, such as faculty qualifications and productivity and resource requirements, as these impact on eligibility for grants and loans, but these are behind the scenes things.

Athletics admins ..................... Don't care about academics. E.g., in the athletic admin domain, Louisville's job is way better than UC - San Diego's job.

Faculty ................................... Care about the overall status and prestige of a university, which is a qualitative thing not defined by any ranking system. This matters because pay tends to be higher at such schools and because laymen (people who aren't professors or scientists) will be more impressed if you tell them you are a Professor at Harvard than at East Tennessee State.

However, faculty are at least as aware of the reputations of the colleges and departments that are related to their specialty. For example, in my field, Business Strategy, a school like LSU, which has a "party and athletic" reputation much higher than its academic reputation, is known to have an excellent department in that area - respected and productive faculty - that exceeds the reputation of the university. So for someone in my field, a job at LSU is pretty prestigious, moreso than for faculty in a "typical" college or department at that school.

That about sums it up.

(03-27-2020 01:00 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 10:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  CAA Rankings, by USNWR:

40 - W&M
40 - Northeastern
84 - Elon
91 - Delaware
97 - Drexel
162 - Hofstra
185 - UNC Wilmington
197 - Towson
3 (South) - James Madison
8 (South) - College of Charleston

Honestly pretty decent overall

I'll always get a laugh at Elon 84th and Drexel in the top 100.

Elon I'm not sure on. Them (And also Northeastern) might've played the 'What do we have to change to increase our USNWR/Forbes rankings' game.

Drexel is probably tough to rank. An engineering degree from there is pretty well respected, but their other programs don't tend to be as highly rated.

(03-27-2020 08:20 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 09:55 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(03-26-2020 01:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 05:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-25-2020 04:33 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

I'm obviously biased, but I don't think there's a world where W&M isn't a top 100 university in the US, let alone top 1,000 (Most rankings generally put us in the 30-50 range). ~33% admissions rate, 6,500 undergrads and we're closing in on a billion dollar endowment.

They aren’t when it’s grad school based but like Miami University in Ohio they are a very good undergraduate institution. Both schools were in the original list of a dozen or so public ivies

Gonna try to trim these quotes down a bit.

I think it depends on which graduate programs you're looking for, which admittedly make any general ranking of universities hard. At W&M, The law school is generally ranked top 30, MBA/Macc programs around 50-60, and a very respected history department. But yes, we don't have a med school or big graduate research programs, so if those are the only criteria for a ranking we will fare poorly.

(03-27-2020 09:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  When it comes to academics, different things matter to different constituencies:

Parents and Students ..... US News is all that matters because this is what the media cares about. Nobody cares about AAU, Chinese 1000, Leiden, or anything else.

Administrators .............. Because US News matters to parents and students, this is largely what matters to them. Admins also care about technical academic issues related to government and accrediting agencies, such as faculty qualifications and productivity and resource requirements, as these impact on eligibility for grants and loans, but these are behind the scenes things.

Athletics admins ..................... Don't care about academics. E.g., in the athletic admin domain, Louisville's job is way better than UC - San Diego's job.

Faculty ................................... Care about the overall status and prestige of a university, which is a qualitative thing not defined by any ranking system. This matters because pay tends to be higher at such schools and because laymen (people who aren't professors or scientists) will be more impressed if you tell them you are a Professor at Harvard than at East Tennessee State.

However, faculty are at least as aware of the reputations of the colleges and departments that are related to their specialty. For example, in my field, Business Strategy, a school like LSU, which has a "party and athletic" reputation much higher than its academic reputation, is known to have an excellent department in that area - respected and productive faculty - that exceeds the reputation of the university. So for someone in my field, a job at LSU is pretty prestigious, moreso than for faculty in a "typical" college or department at that school.

That about sums it up.

Since joining academia, what's been interesting to me is your last point about department strength. It's not at all necessarily related to the overall reputation of the university, and the faculty in the field know it. For instance, the department I'm associated with is more prestigious and cited (you know that citation count is what really matters to academics) than many other schools that have a better overall reputation than UArk. The college I'm in is extremely well-funded with a large endowment, and that reflects in pay, doctoral student stipends (among the highest in the country), and retention.

The biggest problem with recruiting even bigger guns and growing the ranking further is simply getting recruiting targets to come visit because there's a vision of Arkansas that doesn't reflect Northwest Arkansas. This area is very different from the rest of the state. NWA is culturally much more similar to Kansas City than the backwoods South image most of the state has, and thanks to the three Fortune 500 companies and associated industries here, the area is fairly wealthy with a lot of amenities.

Overall, though, UArk is hurt because the medical school is a freestanding institution that hurts the overall research figure as well as the amount that gets skimmed off of those grants toward the endowment and other costs. But with the political divide between NWA and the rest of the state, I doubt that will ever change.