(01-24-2020 02:18 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  He said he could not reveal who the other schools would be out of respect of the schools. But said they are D1 schools and have agreed to move forward with this setup.

Wow. I didn't expect that level of certainty.

(01-24-2020 09:30 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 07:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  This seems like an incredibly inefficient way to create an FCS football league and if successful I don't see how the Big South walks away unscathed

Both Big South and ASun suffer similar problems with football shared between them and some other random members (Monmouth). Both conferences have football-fielding schools, and in ASun, members have football across three conferences (BS, Pioneer, and FBS indy). Big South has members in BS and Pioneer.

It is a mess, and maybe this move sets up a Big South merger, I don't know? I don't know how Big South handles members without football or football in Pioneer. To me, having two conferences with similar membership profiles and between them neither having complete all-sport members? It's redundant and unnecessary. UAC could allow Big South to trim some of its fat, and share with ASun over time, who doesn't want FCS.

To me, over the long haul, ASun doesn't want football schools, but you have non-fb schools in Big South who don't want to move.

There's a lot of bloat. This could straighten things out. Could.

The Asun and the Big South are already working together

If they wanted and FCS all sports conference then put the FCS members in one conference and the other non football schools in another

The problem is there aren't enough schools between the 2 to field a solid all sports Fcs only conference

So I wonder who is on the outside looking in

(01-24-2020 02:18 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  So after more digging with a different UNA person, there seems to be some confusion among officials about how this is going to happen (if it even does).

Someone directly involved in this said this

"The 20 member ASUN membship is misleading. There will be 10 UAC (United Athletic Conference) members, that come from several different conferences, to form a all sport FCS conference. Liberty (non football member), Bellarmine (non football member) and North Alabama will be the 3 from the ASUN. Kennesaw State will be a football only member and Stetson can be if they add scholarships to their program. The ASUN will be a non football conference consisting of the 7 mentioned as the ASUN or (core) 7, and 3 more. The UAC will be under the umbrella of the ASUN, and will have scheduling partnerships in all sports excluding football."

He said he could not reveal who the other schools would be out of respect of the schools. But said they are D1 schools and have agreed to move forward with this setup.

I dont pretend to understand the dynamics behind this, and we can waist time speculating all we want, but it really doesn't matter in the long run.

It's not an all sports FCS conference if Liberty and Belleramine dont play football and Keenesaw is football only.

For Kennesaw this amounts to moving their football team from Big South to UAC while doing a whole lotta mess to play with the same schools under the same name for Olympic sports

(01-24-2020 02:58 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 02:18 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  So after more digging with a different UNA person, there seems to be some confusion among officials about how this is going to happen (if it even does).

Someone directly involved in this said this

"The 20 member ASUN membship is misleading. There will be 10 UAC (United Athletic Conference) members, that come from several different conferences, to form a all sport FCS conference. Liberty (non football member), Bellarmine (non football member) and North Alabama will be the 3 from the ASUN. Kennesaw State will be a football only member and Stetson can be if they add scholarships to their program. The ASUN will be a non football conference consisting of the 7 mentioned as the ASUN or (core) 7, and 3 more. The UAC will be under the umbrella of the ASUN, and will have scheduling partnerships in all sports excluding football."

He said he could not reveal who the other schools would be out of respect of the schools. But said they are D1 schools and have agreed to move forward with this setup.

I dont pretend to understand the dynamics behind this, and we can waist time speculating all we want, but it really doesn't matter in the long run.

It's not an all sports FCS conference if Liberty and Belleramine dont play football and Keenesaw is football only.

For Kennesaw this amounts to moving their football team from Big South to UAC while doing a whole lotta mess to play with the same schools under the same name for Olympic sports

Multi sports... that's my error. It's been a long couple of days. .
Liberty and Bellarmine will be non football members...
All this sounds like the ASUN already knows the Big South is about to drop football. And if they drop football, then Kennesaw needs to play football in the UAC.

That being said, the 4 football playing schools may be ready to break from the Big South for a conference with strong football membership. The UAC would have only 2 non football members out of 10 full members.

The question now is, who is going to make up the UAC and 3 for the ASUN?

Personally, at this point I am more concerned with the UAC, being that looks to be UNAs new conference going forward. And I imagine 3 of the new members will be related to Liberty, Bellarmine and UNA in some fashion.

Liberty+ 1
Bellarmine +1
UNA+1
4 big South football schools = 10 full members+KSU for football= 8 team football conference.

And after the Big South football schools leave, the ASUN 7 and the Big South may be combining into 1 conference?

Just a thought.

(01-24-2020 03:30 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  And after the Big South football schools leave, the ASUN 7 and the Big South may be combining into 1 conference?

Just a thought.

That can be done without a third party conference.
If you play football go to Big South. If you dont play football go to Asun. Or visa versa

The problem with that is the non footbal schools, particularly the Big South, like the tighter footprint the current conferences have. Why would a bunch of FL schools want to join a bunch of VA schools when there is no football involved?

The Big South has 4 football members. 2 in NC and, 1 in VA, and 1 in SC. All of them are private and 1 just joined the Big South while the other left the Big South for the Asun and came back.

(01-24-2020 10:23 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I don't see the ASUN wanting to kick Liberty out? Why invite them if they didn't want them? Especially now that their MBB is taking off.

I don't think Liberty is that desperate to be in an FBS football league to try a scheme to bring up a bunch of FCS teams. They seem pretty content with football independence but if they could find a better all sports league with FBS football then they would probably do that.

If this is just to create a new FCS football only league that would consolidate the Big South and a few others then I agree it seems like a convoluted way of going about it.

It seems mine and Blue Trombone's foil hat theory of using this to split the CUSA and pull a few eastern SB teams along with Liberty is DOA.

buyers remorse, they probably thought the top teams could compete w them, like Winthrop could. The FBS designation has made them even stronger and the A-Sun can't compete so this is 1 way to get them out. Another would be Asun gets enough members to sponsor football and can stay if you have football you must play in the A-Sun, if not you can't be in the conference. I'm seeing this as a St.Thomas is too good for their D-III conf. type situation.

(01-24-2020 07:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  https://www.naplesnews.com/story/sports/...551544002/

Here is an article about it

The CCSA president quoted

"The ASUN group moves in there and makes it a multisport conference," Gumbart said in a phone interview Thursday afternoon. "We repopulate it, build it to 20 and then split. Now the ASUN will retain the ASUN name. The new group, the working name is the United Athletic Conference. And the CCSA is the name that, if you will, will disappear.

"So we have the ASUN as the primary and a United Athletic Conference that would sponsor FCS football."

This seems like an incredibly inefficient way to create an FCS football league and if successful I don't see how the Big South walks away unscathed

Actually not. The Big South Football has only 5 members of their own, including Presbyterian who are dropping off the schedule in 2021 moving to the Pioneer. Kennesaw State, North Alabama and Monmouth are associates, the first two members of the ASUN. They only need to with draw these schools to break the Big South. No doubt a couple Big South schools are on the target list for United Athletic Conference target: Hampton, Campbell, Gardner Webb and UNCA are members of the CCSA, as are MEAC schools Howard (Hampton's main rival) and NC A&T. These could well be on the target list.

I suspect we are further as far as membership than is public. They have definitely had conversations. There could be a shake up among some of the FCS conference.

On NCAA AQ, I suspect what would happen is the NCAA would expand the first four to the first 8, adding 2 more conferences and 2 more at-large bids.

A-Sun should do a merger with D2 Gulf South Conference for a strong conference. Which D1 schools want to switch conference with them? Look at the success of GSC schools who moved to D1?
UCA
Jacksonville State
Nicholls State
Tenn.-Martin
Troy

You could actually create a football conference and bringing in other D1 schools. You need more football schools in the area to pull this off.

(01-24-2020 01:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  ASUN football:
Florida Tech
Stetson
West Florida
Kennesaw State
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Valdosta State
West Georgia
North Alabama
South Carolina State

Big South football
Campbell
North Carolina A&T
North Carolina Central
UNC-Pembroke
Limestone
Charleston Southern
Gardner Webb
Hampton
Howard
Monmouth
Indiana, Pa.
West Chester

The non-football schools could go to the new conference.

I think the goal is to get some of the D2 football schools to move up for better traveling and save money.

Pembroke and Limestone aren't moving up to DI. Limestone rents their stadium from Gaffney High School.

SC State would rather be in the same conference with Central, A&T and Chuck South.

Let's say everything gets approved and the 4 Big South all sports members are in on the UAC deal

The New Non Football ASun would
Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
Florida Gulf Coast
Keenesaw St
Lipscomb
NJIT
TBA
TBA
TBA

The FCS UAC would be
Hampton
Campbell
Gardner Webb
Charleston Southern
UNA
Liberty - Non FCS Football
Kennesaw State - Football Only/ Belleramine - Non Football
TBA
TBA
TBA

Who would the remaining 6 TBAs be?

In addition the Big South would hang on with 7 and would be able to pull from D2
Radford
Longwood
UNCA
High Point
Winthrop
USC Upstate
Presbyterian

(01-24-2020 04:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 01:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  ASUN football:
Florida Tech
Stetson
West Florida
Kennesaw State
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Valdosta State
West Georgia
North Alabama
South Carolina State

Big South football
Campbell
North Carolina A&T
North Carolina Central
UNC-Pembroke
Limestone
Charleston Southern
Gardner Webb
Hampton
Howard
Monmouth
Indiana, Pa.
West Chester

The non-football schools could go to the new conference.

I think the goal is to get some of the D2 football schools to move up for better traveling and save money.

Pembroke and Limestone aren't moving up to DI. Limestone rents their stadium from Gaffney High School.

SC State would rather be in the same conference with Central, A&T and Chuck South.

I put Pembroke there because several of their sports are not offered in the conference they are in, and many ASUN and Big South schools do which they could save money by joining D1.

Limestone just added football. From the looks of it, they are building or upgrading a stadium that they used for LAX and soccer for football.

(01-24-2020 04:46 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 04:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 01:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  ASUN football:
Florida Tech
Stetson
West Florida
Kennesaw State
Florida A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Valdosta State
West Georgia
North Alabama
South Carolina State

Big South football
Campbell
North Carolina A&T
North Carolina Central
UNC-Pembroke
Limestone
Charleston Southern
Gardner Webb
Hampton
Howard
Monmouth
Indiana, Pa.
West Chester

The non-football schools could go to the new conference.

I think the goal is to get some of the D2 football schools to move up for better traveling and save money.

Pembroke and Limestone aren't moving up to DI. Limestone rents their stadium from Gaffney High School.

SC State would rather be in the same conference with Central, A&T and Chuck South.

I put Pembroke there because several of their sports are not offered in the conference they are in, and many ASUN and Big South schools do which they could save money by joining D1.

Limestone just added football. From the looks of it, they are building or upgrading a stadium that they used for LAX and soccer for football.

Link?

(01-24-2020 04:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Let's say everything gets approved and the 4 Big South all sports members are in on the UAC deal

The New Non Football ASun would
Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
Florida Gulf Coast
Keenesaw St
Lipscomb
NJIT
TBA
TBA
TBA

The FCS UAC would be
Hampton
Campbell
Gardner Webb
Charleston Southern
UNA
Liberty - Non FCS Football
Kennesaw State - Football Only/ Belleramine - Non Football
TBA
TBA
TBA

Who would the remaining 6 TBAs be?

In addition the Big South would hang on with 7 and would be able to pull from D2
Radford
Longwood
UNCA
High Point
Winthrop
USC Upstate
Presbyterian

Look beyond the Big South to the MAAC, MEAC and OVC. Perhaps even the SLC

(01-24-2020 05:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 04:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Let's say everything gets approved and the 4 Big South all sports members are in on the UAC deal

The New Non Football ASun would
Stetson
Jacksonville
North Florida
Florida Gulf Coast
Keenesaw St
Lipscomb
NJIT
TBA
TBA
TBA

The FCS UAC would be
Hampton
Campbell
Gardner Webb
Charleston Southern
UNA
Liberty - Non FCS Football
Kennesaw State - Football Only/ Belleramine - Non Football
TBA
TBA
TBA

Who would the remaining 6 TBAs be?

In addition the Big South would hang on with 7 and would be able to pull from D2
Radford
Longwood
UNCA
High Point
Winthrop
USC Upstate
Presbyterian

Look beyond the Big South to the MAAC, MEAC and OVC. Perhaps even the SLC

Football have to be a tighter knight than what people have here. I am very hesitant with northern schools joining. Charleston Southern could go south with Kennesaw State. I do see some D2 schools making the jump. We are starting to see a bunch of D2 schools downgrading. We might see the large D2 schools merging with D1 and the smaller downgrade to D3 and NAIA. How many schools in the Big South, MAAC and MEAC be able to afford to stay in 1A?

Monmouth and Hampton appear to be on the outside looking in.

(01-24-2020 06:30 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Monmouth and Hampton appear to be on the outside looking in.

Monmouth maybe, they could be an associate in the UAC for football though, I imagine.

Hampton is a full Big South member, I would imagine they would be part of the UAC. But they may not want to. They may decide to go back to the MEAC?

Someone else that may be in play is Tarleton State. They will be FCS indy with nowhere to go for football. Or they may make room for Tarleton in the Southland and let a couple of the Louisiana schools move to the UAC as full members.

There are several scenarios that can play out... one I kinda have a feeling about is Liberty, UNA and Bellarmine will have someone join to be close to them. Example, UNA/Jacksonville State? Bellarmine/Morehead? Liberty/JMU? Those were just examples, no need to tell me why that will not happen.

(01-24-2020 04:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  On NCAA AQ, I suspect what would happen is the NCAA would expand the first four to the first 8, adding 2 more conferences and 2 more at-large bids.

I was thinking the same thing. But that does mean that those games would have to start Monday and there would have to be 3 games on 2 days.

(01-24-2020 05:56 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-22-2020 07:04 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Essentially, the ASUN is kicking out Liberty, UNA, and Bellarmine.

Bingo! But really it's about Liberty. They realize they are stuck with them, so to split they have to exit as a group. But unlike the MWC, they are trying to prepare a soft landing for the other three. But a few points struck me:

1. "multisport" means not a new football. This makes sense the schools are all over the map from no football to Pioneer to Big South to FBS Independent. But FCS Football was mentioned by some as one of the possible motives -- it's not.

2. The "7" voted unanimously for expansion on December 13th. This clarification seems to me to be first and foremost a recognition that admitting Liberty was mistake and one the schools cannot live with. Liberty has a far bigger athletic department, dwarfing the others in money and facilities current and planned. But more importantly, these schools have lived with Liberty now for over a year and have come to realize they are not compatible.

Note 7 is a 3/4ths majority until Bellarmine joins in summer. They need to approve the plan while they have the super majority.

3. My read of the three newcomers being lumped together in the statement is cover not to single out Liberty. The conference has 10 schools, which is the desired size of the new ASUN conference. What they have come to realize is Liberty is likely to dominate ASUN Basketball due to their unlimited resources (compared to ASUN schools) combined with being a school they don't want to be associated with.

4. Who are the targeted schools? My hunch is low lying fruit. But the schools will be in two target pools:
(a) one or two schools the ASUN7 plan to take with them, schools they think fit -- note, they only join after the split
(b) filler, frankly anyone who wants to move up or escape a conference like say the MEAC

Keep an eye on who they target, and you'll have a pretty good idea if they are group (a) or group (b)

Kind of bewildering that the Conference didn't realize that Liberty would dominate.