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(12-19-2019 10:33 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  ??? Dude, TV Teddy Valentine is an AWFUL ref. AWFUL. I think Kenpom has him down as the ref who calls the least amount of fouls per contest...it's not good to be an outlier as a ref, and it's not good when people know you by your nickname.

I don't know how many times last night he made the wrong call, only to reverse it seconds later, either with, or without, another official's prompting. Add in his ridiculous theatrics every time a charge is called and he really needs to just hang the whistle up.

He calls fewer fouls than other refs, and last night when he made a wrong call he quickly reversed it. These are your best criticisms?

I like the theatrics! He's even got his own Nike gear. And he's ripped. He's a great villain. If TV Ted is doing your game, it's big time.

He calls the least amount of fouls of anyone and he repeatedly misses calls, changes them, and has absurd reactions to everything.

An ideal ref would fall somewhere below the median in terms of total fouls called (if you believe the game has too many stoppages, which I do) but certainly not that big of an outlier, they'd only change calls when they made an infrequent error (instead of changing calls 4-5 times a game), and they don't bring attention to themselves when calling a damn charge.

And I certainly don't think a ref should be a villain...whatever that means.

(12-19-2019 10:40 AM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 10:33 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  ??? Dude, TV Teddy Valentine is an AWFUL ref. AWFUL. I think Kenpom has him down as the ref who calls the least amount of fouls per contest...it's not good to be an outlier as a ref, and it's not good when people know you by your nickname.

I don't know how many times last night he made the wrong call, only to reverse it seconds later, either with, or without, another official's prompting. Add in his ridiculous theatrics every time a charge is called and he really needs to just hang the whistle up.

I think it was Teddy hen the ball was clearly off Tennessee and he called Tennessee ball. I started yelling right away lol as he had the best view in the world and it was so clear. Tre Scott was like WTF, and within a few seconds he taps his chest like my bad and reverses the call to UC ball. I was like wtf made you call it Tennessee ball in the first place, but other than that he was my favorite ref last night.

I thought there was a play last night where Teddy gave us the ball when it looked like we deflected it out, but Teddy had a bad angle. Another ref had a perfect angle and put his whistle up to his mouth to correct the call, then it looked like he realized Teddy made the call and you just don't cross Teddy.

Actually i think those ref's were better than Saturday night. That crew was brutal. At least last night they t'd up the kid for the flop versus Saturday when they gave the guy 2 ft's to win the game for a flop.

That said, if Tre Scott shows up on the offensive end this is a different team. He can't be playing 35 minutes plus and get 2 points at the 4. Adams-Woods is just a very poised kid for a frosh with a soft shot. 4/4 from the ft line. I see now why some of those Syracuse fans posted online that they thought they were going to regret not going after him harder. Great thing is he can legitimately play the point or off guard. I think he'll get a lot of looks with Saunders at point. Some of JC's turnovers were at least feeding the post. I think Vogt could have maybe gotten to the one that went out of bounds, but unfortunately that's the downside of new guys meshing together. The 4th foul call on him was awful, particularly after his cousin was knocked to the ground on the layup with no call, and Keith Williams was clearly fouled on the driving dunk and no and one. JC made no contact at all with the guy on the shot.

(12-19-2019 09:42 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 08:56 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Thought I was seeing things, but Justin Williams just confirmed this in the Athletic: Cumberland pointed at Brannen after an assist, crediting him with the call

I can’t remember if Jarron was involved in this particular play but they ran a beautiful set out of a timeout from under the basket to get Mika Adams Woods a layup on a backdoor cut.

He was the inbounder

So we got 20 and 8 from Vogt and Sorrolla combined last night. I thought the geniuses on the board said they could only do that against Horizon level competition?

(12-19-2019 11:23 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  So we got 20 and 8 from Vogt and Sorrolla combined last night. I thought the geniuses on the board said they could only do that against Horizon level competition?

Good Post.

(12-19-2019 09:43 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 07:53 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 07:34 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  If we make 3 more FTs, we're at 9-2 right now with losses at a Top 5 team and at a Top 20 team...I don't think anyone would be complaining about that. Call it growing pains, figuring out your personnel in real time, and a little bit of bad luck. With a shortened rotation and the right people playing the right minutes we just knocked off a Top 25 team and scored the most points theyve given up all year, I think that's a pretty good indicator that things are moving in the right direction and maybe we shouldn't hang up a coach a third of a season into his tenure here.

I was talking about this last night and came to the conclusion UC's record is exactly what it should be based on how they played. I was lamenting how many games they've been up and in control late and blew the leads (Colgate, bowling green, unlv, valpo) but at the same time they really haven't played well. They ended up winning two of those and probably stole the Illinois state game. Could easily be 9-2 but could have lost 3 more as well. Their record seems about right but they aren't that far off. I could see them making a leap.

The other thing when mentioning potential records is that had UC beat Bowling Green they would have played Nevada the next day and not Valpo. Nothing is for sure but I imagine they would have lost that game to Nevada.

Yep...I think if you polled this board, probably 80% of us would've said we'd be 8-3 at this point, the Colgate game was a complete head-scratcher, but it was precipitated by one of the dumbest plays I've seen on a college basketball court in my life, so I take that with a grain of salt. I think we've still got a pretty decent shot at the tournament with our overall strength of schedule if we can split with Houston and Wichita State and win the games in conference that we should win. BGSU will compete for a MAC Championship and Colgate are the favorites in the NEC, so those losses likely won't look as abysmal as they felt the day of, but you still would like to not have either of those on your schedule. We proved the year we lost to Presbyterian and Marshall in the OOC that you can have some pretty piss poor losses if you have wins like we had last night and like we could get this weekend.

(12-19-2019 11:29 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:23 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  So we got 20 and 8 from Vogt and Sorrolla combined last night. I thought the geniuses on the board said they could only do that against Horizon level competition?

Good Post.

I could see Brannen's scheme being really appealing to highly-rated 5 recruits. Until then, I'm glad he found Vogt & Sorolla, without whom it is difficult to imagine this team having any success at all.

(12-19-2019 06:34 AM)Banter Wrote:  

(12-18-2019 10:50 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  MAW had a 169 kenpom Ortg in 31 minutes tonight. He's been enormous. Tre, jaevin, vogt and sorrolla all had efficient offensive games as well.

Would you mind explaining what this means? I hardly understand basketball, let alone basketball advanced statistics.

It's just a measure for capturing a player's offensive efficiency. At its root it's Points produced divided by possessions used. There are adjustments as with most of his stats. 100 is meant to be about average. Elite, high usage players are generally in the 110-120 range (Jarron was 109.6 last season). You'll see some low usage guys be particularly efficient (Kyle Young for OSU right now is 148.1 for the season and leads the country in that regard).

Here's a brief primer from kenpom https://kenpom.com/blog/offensive-rating...ion-usage/

This year Cumberland's Ortg is only 89.1 despite the fact that he's being used on 29.6% of UC's possessions (not too far off of his usage rate last year). If his Ortg gets to the level it was last year, you'll see a huge jump in UC's offensive efficiency numbers overnight.

Great to win despite the foul shooting disparity again hurting us. It was almost eerie Tennessee hitting 17-17 (I hardly remember any that were not swishes) they only hit 13-18 against Memphis in their previous game.

Watched UK vs Utah late last night (Walton said it was his first time ever calling a UK game) Utah almost blew their win by missing foul shots down the stretch. We are almost due some karma with our opponents clanging a few in key situations.....and we need to improve our performance at the line.

(12-19-2019 11:47 AM)cincybb51 Wrote:  Great to win despite the foul shooting disparity again hurting us. It was almost eerie Tennessee hitting 17-17 (I hardly remember any that were not swishes) they only hit 13-18 against Memphis in their previous game.

Watched UK vs Utah late last night (Walton said it was his first time ever calling a UK game) Utah almost blew their win by missing foul shots down the stretch. We are almost due some karma with our opponents clanging a few in key situations.....and we need to improve our performance at the line.

Our opponents are shooting 75.1% against us at the FT line for the season. 35th highest in the country.

(12-19-2019 11:56 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:47 AM)cincybb51 Wrote:  Great to win despite the foul shooting disparity again hurting us. It was almost eerie Tennessee hitting 17-17 (I hardly remember any that were not swishes) they only hit 13-18 against Memphis in their previous game.

Watched UK vs Utah late last night (Walton said it was his first time ever calling a UK game) Utah almost blew their win by missing foul shots down the stretch. We are almost due some karma with our opponents clanging a few in key situations.....and we need to improve our performance at the line.

Our opponents are shooting 75.1% against us at the FT line for the season. 35th highest in the country.

I assume it was somewhat lower before Tennessee's perfect night?

(12-19-2019 11:23 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  So we got 20 and 8 from Vogt and Sorrolla combined last night. I thought the geniuses on the board said they could only do that against Horizon level competition?

As Terry Nelson said, this was against a SEC tested team .... even though they have not played a SEC team yet.

These two guys have been great! They do what they are asked to do. Makes me want to re-assess my feelings about Lorenz Metz. I'm not sure he was the best option, but he did his best as a fill-in.

(12-19-2019 11:29 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:23 AM)rtaylor Wrote:  So we got 20 and 8 from Vogt and Sorrolla combined last night. I thought the geniuses on the board said they could only do that against Horizon level competition?

Good Post.

To bring that point home further, I can't imagine the state of this club without either player - Vogt in particular. Vogt put on 20 pounds in the weight room for this season. Imagine the potential for this kid next year.

Vogt's flex at the end of the game gave us a nice glimpse as to just how jacked he's become in a short period of time. He looks legit big down there. Needs to learn how to use that to rebound better. Sorrolla would benefit from learning how to back his rear into guys down low too.

(12-19-2019 12:06 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:56 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:47 AM)cincybb51 Wrote:  Great to win despite the foul shooting disparity again hurting us. It was almost eerie Tennessee hitting 17-17 (I hardly remember any that were not swishes) they only hit 13-18 against Memphis in their previous game.

Watched UK vs Utah late last night (Walton said it was his first time ever calling a UK game) Utah almost blew their win by missing foul shots down the stretch. We are almost due some karma with our opponents clanging a few in key situations.....and we need to improve our performance at the line.

Our opponents are shooting 75.1% against us at the FT line for the season. 35th highest in the country.

I assume it was somewhat lower before Tennessee's perfect night?

was still 72.5% which is top 75 ish.


Since the BGSU game our opponents are 96-118 for 81.3% which would be tops in the country.

(12-19-2019 12:19 PM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 12:06 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:56 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(12-19-2019 11:47 AM)cincybb51 Wrote:  Great to win despite the foul shooting disparity again hurting us. It was almost eerie Tennessee hitting 17-17 (I hardly remember any that were not swishes) they only hit 13-18 against Memphis in their previous game.

Watched UK vs Utah late last night (Walton said it was his first time ever calling a UK game) Utah almost blew their win by missing foul shots down the stretch. We are almost due some karma with our opponents clanging a few in key situations.....and we need to improve our performance at the line.

Our opponents are shooting 75.1% against us at the FT line for the season. 35th highest in the country.

I assume it was somewhat lower before Tennessee's perfect night?

was still 72.5% which is top 75 ish.


Since the BGSU game our opponents are 96-118 for 81.3% which would be tops in the country.

and to expand on that, of those 7 opponents 4 of them are ranked 160 or worse and Valpo, Vermont, and Xavier are 198 or worse.

(12-19-2019 12:18 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Vogt's flex at the end of the game gave us a nice glimpse as to just how jacked he's become in a short period of time. He looks legit big down there. Needs to learn how to use that to rebound better. Sorrolla would benefit from learning how to back his rear into guys down low too.

Yep. I also liked after the "power flex" he sank the free throw. That put an exclamation point on it. His confidence and comfort levels seem to be growing by the week. Come March that could be a key for this squad. Did anyone mention he has a great coiffure to boot?

(12-19-2019 11:00 AM)dsquare Wrote:  Actually i think those ref's were better than Saturday night. That crew was brutal. At least last night they t'd up the kid for the flop versus Saturday when they gave the guy 2 ft's to win the game for a flop.

That said, if Tre Scott shows up on the offensive end this is a different team. He can't be playing 35 minutes plus and get 2 points at the 4. Adams-Woods is just a very poised kid for a frosh with a soft shot. 4/4 from the ft line. I see now why some of those Syracuse fans posted online that they thought they were going to regret not going after him harder. Great thing is he can legitimately play the point or off guard. I think he'll get a lot of looks with Saunders at point. Some of JC's turnovers were at least feeding the post. I think Vogt could have maybe gotten to the one that went out of bounds, but unfortunately that's the downside of new guys meshing together. The 4th foul call on him was awful, particularly after his cousin was knocked to the ground on the layup with no call, and Keith Williams was clearly fouled on the driving dunk and no and one. JC made no contact at all with the guy on the shot.

that keith will dunk was something else. he looked down at the dude and was like, what? hard to defend that better