(12-15-2019 01:22 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:11 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  So... I thought UConn leaving wasn't one of the teams that could affect the value of the TV contract. How is ESPN able to renegotiate now after the deal is complete? Unless we are indeed bringing in 1-3 new members which could change the makeup of the conference by quite a bit?

If one of certain teams left it is an automatic. If a certain number leave it is automatic. Otherwise it's up to ESPN and the AAC. My guess is not much comes out of this. I doubt a full share loss, but the amount of content takes a hit so we may see a small reduction based on that.

Most likely we got a short list from ESPN and some slightly altered language about the terms if we add programs.

Ah, this makes better sense. So not an automatic trigger, but Aresco willing to work with ESPN on an adjustment to keep our good standing and not ruffle any feathers with the big network execs.

(12-15-2019 12:16 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 11:19 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 09:36 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  For all of the people pushing for Olympic sports additions, that will only happen if a VCU, Gonzaga, Dayton and St Louis are paired with Army (FB only).

All other additions from UMass to SDSU and anything in between should be full membership only... The hybrid stuff is part of what killed the BIG EAST teams don't really like being partial members.

Let's stop with the hybrid "killed" the Big East. The teams that left simply got in a more prestigious league and got more money. A lot more money.

The AAC just need to put out the best set of teams that will bring the TV dollars. If that means a hybrid or non-hybrid it doesn't matter to me. Any team will leave with a Big 12 offer. Might as make as much as possible now.

Do UCF fans ever consider that the reason that USF was originally selected over UCF is because USF football was weaker? The BIG EAST was and is a basketball league, and would have done anything to keep that way including breaking up the conference if necessary, which they did... Miami(FL) left because of it's football strength and Penn State was voted down because of it' football strength.

But surely YOU must understand that there is a MASSIVE difference to a conference with an 8-8 split between football playing members and non-football playing members compared to a conference with a 12-2 or 12-3 split between its football playing members and non-football members. These two models are in two completely different worlds when it comes to functional real world conference governance.

My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

So you'd play all 7 in your division & 1 rotating from the other division?

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

Your proposal literally screams DEATH for the MWC... And plus no way in the world AAC presidents vote in favor for Boise.

(12-15-2019 01:22 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:11 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  So... I thought UConn leaving wasn't one of the teams that could affect the value of the TV contract. How is ESPN able to renegotiate now after the deal is complete? Unless we are indeed bringing in 1-3 new members which could change the makeup of the conference by quite a bit?

If one of certain teams left it is an automatic. If a certain number leave it is automatic. Otherwise it's up to ESPN and the AAC. My guess is not much comes out of this. I doubt a full share loss, but the amount of content takes a hit so we may see a small reduction based on that.

Most likely we got a short list from ESPN and some slightly altered language about the terms if we add programs.

I caught the end of an interview with Aresco...think it was with Dan Tortora (sp?) There’s prolly a podcast out there. Anyway, he made sure to emphasize it’s not a renegotiation...terms can’t be changed, just an adjustment (presumably for content). Said it was pretty standard. ESPN isn’t going to pay the same for less. They’ll end up taking back UCONN’s share. This is why you see the quotes about per team money remaining whole. So, the premise about UCONN not being a school triggering the renegotiation clause appears to be true.

Common sence told you adjustment for losing Conn.

(12-15-2019 02:05 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

So you'd play all 7 in your division & 1 rotating from the other division?

Need 9 conference games if you have 14 teams. With that lineup, I would welcome a 9th conference game.

Agree, common sense tells you the contract will be adjusted for ANY team leaving...some teams however can trigger a renegotiation. The AAC was never going to be able to split an extra share.

(12-15-2019 03:00 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Agree, common sense tells you the contract will be adjusted for ANY team leaving...some teams however can trigger a renegotiation. The AAC was never going to be able to split an extra share.

this is what i was stating earlier but when you think of it

it means uconn basketball was worth 8 million
unless it was 6 mil and they just paid us 2 just to keep the football on.

(12-15-2019 03:53 PM)Agust Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:00 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Agree, common sense tells you the contract will be adjusted for ANY team leaving...some teams however can trigger a renegotiation. The AAC was never going to be able to split an extra share.

this is what i was stating earlier but when you think of it

it means uconn basketball was worth 8 million
unless it was 6 mil and they just paid us 2 just to keep the football on.

Common sense should also tell you that it is a little more complex than "1/12th of the contract back, please."
If it was that simple, it would be done, not be a process that Aresco was talking about rolling up our sleeves and getting to.

The contract isn't written as $6.94M per team per year for 12 teams. The contract is written as $83.3M per year for a long list of inventory - x games on Thurs/Fri; y games per network on Saturday; z games on ESPN+; a basketball games by network on weeknights; b basketball games by network on weekends; c basketball games on ESPN+; all the other stuff; etc.
If football was 75% of the value of the media contract and UConn was only a Friday night ESPN2 game and all the rest Plus...the adjustment might come out less than $6.94M per year.

(12-15-2019 04:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:53 PM)Agust Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:00 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Agree, common sense tells you the contract will be adjusted for ANY team leaving...some teams however can trigger a renegotiation. The AAC was never going to be able to split an extra share.

this is what i was stating earlier but when you think of it

it means uconn basketball was worth 8 million
unless it was 6 mil and they just paid us 2 just to keep the football on.

Common sense should also tell you that it is a little more complex than "1/12th of the contract back, please."
If it was that simple, it would be done, not be a process that Aresco was talking about rolling up our sleeves and getting to.

The contract isn't written as $6.94M per team per year for 12 teams. The contract is written as $83.3M per year for a long list of inventory - x games on Thurs/Fri; y games per network on Saturday; z games on ESPN+; a basketball games by network on weeknights; b basketball games by network on weekends; c basketball games on ESPN+; all the other stuff; etc.
If football was 75% of the value of the media contract and UConn was only a Friday night ESPN2 game and all the rest Plus...the adjustment might come out less than $6.94M per year.

Great explanation. To further it some each week we were supplying ESPN with. Tier 1 Saturday ABC/ESPN games. Tier 2 Friday night ESPN/Saturday ESPN 2 games. Tier 3 ESPN 2 mid week games. Tier 4 being ESPN + games.

So for the most part we will be loosing Tier 4 games, UConn was not good, so low payout. Other thing is reslotting so games up a Tier and reworking future schedule were Uconn was to be against a marquee team in one of the ESPN slots.

Example Uconn vs ECU on ESPN + inventory is not going to loose us anything from the deal. But UConn vs Memphis Bball on ESPN one week now needs rework, so a day that had Cincy vs Houston and Temple vs Wichita is split to fit time slots.

If we can still fill the big slots and work it so its 1 less ESPN+ game we will probably be between a quarter and half a share loss.

(12-15-2019 01:11 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:  So... I thought UConn leaving wasn't one of the teams that could affect the value of the TV contract. How is ESPN able to renegotiate now after the deal is complete? Unless we are indeed bringing in 1-3 new members which could change the makeup of the conference by quite a bit?

Two different clauses. One says ESPN can "renegotiate" (vs. cancel) the contract if anybody leaves.

The other says they can cancel the contract and start over if two teams leave, or any one of a short list that UConn was not on.

"Renegotiate" likely means they reduce all or part of UConn's share. Aresco already said it is highly unlikely anybody loses money.

They also are likely talking to us about any possible future adds.

(12-15-2019 01:39 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 12:16 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 11:19 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 09:36 AM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  For all of the people pushing for Olympic sports additions, that will only happen if a VCU, Gonzaga, Dayton and St Louis are paired with Army (FB only).

All other additions from UMass to SDSU and anything in between should be full membership only... The hybrid stuff is part of what killed the BIG EAST teams don't really like being partial members.

Let's stop with the hybrid "killed" the Big East. The teams that left simply got in a more prestigious league and got more money. A lot more money.

The AAC just need to put out the best set of teams that will bring the TV dollars. If that means a hybrid or non-hybrid it doesn't matter to me. Any team will leave with a Big 12 offer. Might as make as much as possible now.

Do UCF fans ever consider that the reason that USF was originally selected over UCF is because USF football was weaker? The BIG EAST was and is a basketball league, and would have done anything to keep that way including breaking up the conference if necessary, which they did... Miami(FL) left because of it's football strength and Penn State was voted down because of it' football strength.

But surely YOU must understand that there is a MASSIVE difference to a conference with an 8-8 split between football playing members and non-football playing members compared to a conference with a 12-2 or 12-3 split between its football playing members and non-football members. These two models are in two completely different worlds when it comes to functional real world conference governance.

Yes they are in different worlds, but BS-u went bck to the MW for $1MIL rather than stay in the big east and split their athletics between 2 conferences, outside of the Service academies I personally think a Football only invite is not a wise decision.

Either add an academy & VCU or expand west by adding 1-3 all sports members and keep 2 divisions but schedule to either 3 or 4 POD's.

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

Not sure, but I would think that Navy would rather be in the West and travel to San Diego every year, largest US Navel base is in San Diego. Naval Base San Diego is the principal homeport of the Pacific Fleet.

(12-15-2019 04:35 PM)spenser Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 04:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:53 PM)Agust Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:00 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Agree, common sense tells you the contract will be adjusted for ANY team leaving...some teams however can trigger a renegotiation. The AAC was never going to be able to split an extra share.

this is what i was stating earlier but when you think of it

it means uconn basketball was worth 8 million
unless it was 6 mil and they just paid us 2 just to keep the football on.

Common sense should also tell you that it is a little more complex than "1/12th of the contract back, please."
If it was that simple, it would be done, not be a process that Aresco was talking about rolling up our sleeves and getting to.

The contract isn't written as $6.94M per team per year for 12 teams. The contract is written as $83.3M per year for a long list of inventory - x games on Thurs/Fri; y games per network on Saturday; z games on ESPN+; a basketball games by network on weeknights; b basketball games by network on weekends; c basketball games on ESPN+; all the other stuff; etc.
If football was 75% of the value of the media contract and UConn was only a Friday night ESPN2 game and all the rest Plus...the adjustment might come out less than $6.94M per year.

Great explanation. To further it some each week we were supplying ESPN with. Tier 1 Saturday ABC/ESPN games. Tier 2 Friday night ESPN/Saturday ESPN 2 games. Tier 3 ESPN 2 mid week games. Tier 4 being ESPN + games.

So for the most part we will be loosing Tier 4 games, UConn was not good, so low payout. Other thing is reslotting so games up a Tier and reworking future schedule were Uconn was to be against a marquee team in one of the ESPN slots.

Example Uconn vs ECU on ESPN + inventory is not going to loose us anything from the deal. But UConn vs Memphis Bball on ESPN one week now needs rework, so a day that had Cincy vs Houston and Temple vs Wichita is split to fit time slots.

If we can still fill the big slots and work it so its 1 less ESPN+ game we will probably be between a quarter and half a share loss.

I've SWAGged this before and come out around $5-5.5M. Let's see what I come up with this time around...

Football is about 75% of the contract - plenty of comments to that effect around the time of UConn's departure. So from the average annual value (aav) of $83.3M, football is worth $62.5M and a "standard" contribution to the inventory on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPN+ would be $5.2M. But UConn is substandard in delivering valuable inventory in football. This season, one Friday night ESPN2 game hosting Navy at the Rent had 742k viewers and a visit to UCF had 322k viewers. Even with a desire to have UConn's name on the ESPN+, it's generous to say $2.5M for UConn's football.

Basketball's portion of the aav, then should be...$20.8M, with a "standard" basketball value being $1.75M. Say UConn's brand is worth one-and-a-half the standard...You can get that to $2.6M.

Maybe ESPN says the UConn WBB was worth $1M per year, because that was the price point they could sell it to SNY. You can MAYBE get UConn's value to ESPN up to $6M, but still short of the "Easy Button" answer of a straight 1/12th of the contract.

So if it takes a while to figure out the "adjustment" that's the negotiating that's going on.
"Someone else will give you that Friday night football content, all you're really losing is a small volume of ESPN+ games."
"Okay, but we need that basketball brand on the Plus for subscriptions AS WELL as more than their share on ESPN and ESPN2."

(12-15-2019 05:10 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

Not sure, but I would think that Navy would rather be in the West and travel to San Diego every year, largest US Navel base is in San Diego. Naval Base San Diego is the principal homeport of the Pacific Fleet.

All this is obviously hugely hypothetical and barely worth discussing, but ...

If you bring in Air Force, then Navy and AF HAVE to be in same division. Otherwise they're permanent cross-division and the stupider/bigger you make this the harder that one off schedule special gets.
Navy would be happy to go to San Diego every other year. Practically an extra home game - Navy was a better draw than SDSU in the Poinsettia Bowl.
Also, we would love to keep going to Texas. We love Tennessee, too, and would miss Florida in a larger conference with fewer cross-division games, but would prefer West in these fantastical constructs.

In broader terms, the LARGER the footprint, the more Navy likes it. We are a national program and a national brand. Part of the resistance to the long courtship from the Big East was the hesitancy to be limited to a "regional" (i.e. it has a direction in the name) conference. On the other hand, when the 2011-12 vision of the Big East was a national conference, that was better for Navy.

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

If they were to go to 16, which I highly doubt, it would be 4 quad divisions with 4 teams each.

Therefore teams would play 3 division games and 5 or 6 (if they were to go with a 9-game conference schedule) non division conference games.

(12-15-2019 02:25 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

Your proposal literally screams DEATH for the MWC... And plus no way in the world AAC presidents vote in favor for Boise.

Yeah, that's the idea. You got a problem with that?

Regarding your second sentence, money and politics make for strange bedfellows.

(12-15-2019 01:41 PM)mustangxc Wrote:  My preference is to add BYU football only and move on. However, if we were to do a more expansive addition add BYU, Boise State, Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State.

East:
Navy
Temple
Cincinnati
East Carolina
UCF
USF
Memphis
Tulane

West:
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State

I also prefer adding only one team, primarily BYU. In the meantime, AAC doesn not have to do anything and, in a way, cannot do anything until the B12 TV contract expires. If I were BYU, no way would I join AAC without a binding conference contract. As long as BYU and UCF and other AAC schools perceive they have an opportunity to join B12, AAC is hamstrung in expansion....which, for the time being, is not a negative. Just play with 11.

MOUNTAIN WEST CONFERENCE:

Eastern Division:
Wyoming
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
UTSA
North Texas State

Western Division:
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State
UNLV
Nevada
Utah State