(09-09-2019 11:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 08:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 07:32 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When FSU announced hiring Taggart, I was surprised. From a far it just didn’t look like a good fit.

Bobby Bowden, Jimbo Fisher and Willie Taggart....

Taggart didn’t deserve to follow those two.....

Can’t believe FSU administrators thought otherwise. I’m sure FSU fans were scratching their heads when the hire was announced.

I thought it made a lot of sense for 2 reasons:
1) he's a Florida recruiter
2) he's a program rebuilder

I've seen this show before. It happened when Jordan left Auburn. Barfield followed and torpedoed the program. We were lucky to get Dye next. Then Terry Bowden torpedoed the program and Tubberville built it back to respectability. Then Chizik inherited Tubberville talent but jazzed up an ultra conservative offense and with Newton (a once in 50 year player) he won it all. Then under his recruitment things went straight down the drain due to lack of discipline and poor communication with the staff. Malzahn, IMO is an intermediate step to rebuilding. He runs a good player into the ground. Auburn craters every year before the end of the season due to injuries and the back ups (other than the line) have had no playing time.

The same thing happened when Bear stepped down but with one exception. They hired Bill Curry who was actually solid, but he wouldn't let Bama boosters run wild with recruits. After Curry left they wandered in the wilderness before getting Saban.

But here's the storyline. In all of those cases hiring co-ordinators to step up to the plate because of the "coaching tree" all proved to be boneheaded mistakes. Kirby Smart is the exception so far for Saban's tree.

The ingredients that go into making a top notch coach include a focus on objectives, great staff communication skills, the ability to delegate to those you trust, and they ultimately have to be a great evaluater of not only talent, but character. Pat Dye had that. Saban had that. And Bear had that.

What kills a lot of these coaches is they can't evaluate both talent and character. A kid with a rotten attitude will kill a team's spirit no matter how good he is at playing. Negativity and bad behavior legally are two different kinds of character flaws that can eat at a team.

You got that right - just ask Justin Fuente at Virginia Tech!

Quote:But then having players with great character who work hard and support the team only gets you so far if they don't have the physical qualities to take play to the next step.

Bobby Bowden had all of that with the charisma to motivate. Fisher lacked the charisma but had the ability find talented kids and for the most part players with decent enough integrity.

Malzahn, Pruitt, Taggert, McElwain, Muschamp, Kiffin, and Morris, are all examples of former coordinators who, in different degrees, don't have the package of evaluative, or leadership skills to be very successful head coaches. But, the problem is that in any 1 given year there likely is not a Saban, Meyer, or Peterson quality coach available. Texas landed the most likely coordinator to take it to the next level. I'll be watching the Horns' steady improvement. Maybe Oklahoma got another in Riley.

But, Auburn's problem, as it was at Georgia with Richt, running out a guy who gets you 8 wins most seasons to risk getting a complete dud, is a hard decision to make. And if you make it, and even if you have top money to hire a new guy, there's no guarantee that there is a great coach available for hire. They are scarce, and getting rarer every year.

That's the bottom line, isn't it - winning at a championship level is very, very hard.

Yes. And the new class that will likely dominate in the future when Urban, Nick, and Snyder are gone is even smaller.

Dabo is going to be highly sought after and by several major programs. Herman and Riley are already at destination schools. I think Frost is good but went to a slowly dying situation. The number of people raised to be discerning, with good communication skills, and sound fundamentals is simply not going to be replenished easily in an age that is so impersonal, relies so much on technology, and doesn't spend lots of time with actual people.

Ultimately it's why Mack Brown was lured out of retirement to return to Chapel Hill.
Carolina couldn't afford to make another mistake. The Rams Club wrestled control of the Athletic department back away from the University (that group wasn't about to let Bubba Cunningham make another hire). There was less risk in hiring an older known than younger potential in a limited market. It was a gamble, but so far it has paid off, not only in wins, but in relationships with alumni, faculty, media, high school coaches/recruits and fans. There is no substitute for good and honest communication, sound fundamentals, and a sincere desire to guide young people.

(09-09-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 07:32 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When FSU announced hiring Taggart, I was surprised. From a far it just didn’t look like a good fit.

Bobby Bowden, Jimbo Fisher and Willie Taggart....

Taggart didn’t deserve to follow those two.....

Can’t believe FSU administrators thought otherwise. I’m sure FSU fans were scratching their heads when the hire was announced.

I thought it made a lot of sense for 2 reasons:
1) he's a Florida recruiter
2) he's a program rebuilder

I watched him at WKU as a player and coach. His teams were very undisciplined. He was 16-21 at WKU. Moved to USF after a 7-6 season and went 25-25 over four seasons.

Maybe it’s because I have watched him for the better part of 20 years but I just don’t see a career 47-50 coach being successful at FSU.

Honestly the guy reminds me of Ron Cooper. Ron could recruit but his teams were a train wreck on the field.

(09-10-2019 12:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Dabo is going to be highly sought after and by several major programs. Herman and Riley are already at destination schools. I think Frost is good but went to a slowly dying situation. The number of people raised to be discerning, with good communication skills, and sound fundamentals is simply not going to be replenished easily in an age that is so impersonal, relies so much on technology, and doesn't spend lots of time with actual people.

That's a huge point that is largely lost on the younger generations. We call things like Twitter, Facebook and Instagram "social media" when they are anything but. They have become (even if not intentionally) ways we avoid actual, person to person contact. We can't learn to assess someone's character without the social cues that can only come from looking someone in the eye when they are communicating with you.

As I watch people walk down the street without ever looking up from their phone, I can only imagine this will get worse before it gets better.

(09-09-2019 07:32 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When FSU announced hiring Taggart, I was surprised. From a far it just didn’t look like a good fit.
Bobby Bowden, Jimbo Fisher and Willie Taggart.... [...]

(09-09-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I thought it made a lot of sense for 2 reasons:
1) he's a Florida recruiter
2) he's a program rebuilder

And he's young enough to have a long tenure at your school if he wins. That's the kind of coach you like to hire before a rival does.

Where I raised an eyebrow was at the decision to overhaul both offensive and defensive schemes. We're *sure* the program needs that?

Well, OK, that's the coach's call. But it's best to prepare everyone for rough weather in the transition. Nothing is helped by calling a new offense 'lethal' before opposing defenders are saying the same, or by players describing practices as 'fun' before the interview when they're handed the trophy.

I think the days of going after high profile coaches has or is coming to an end. Why the HELL would Dabo leave what he has clearly established in his tenure at Clemson? Oh he went to Alabama and played there etc, but what does that really mean? Nothing what so ever. He is higher than all mighty down there, and they are not letting him go, and I don’t think he is willing to walk away either.

The FSU job is one of the better high profile jobs out there regardless of bias opinion, but like a poster and others have mentioned I wasn’t stunned when they announced Taggart the HC of the Noles. If they were going to have someone come in and change everything up from the get go then they should have scoured the nation fo the best fit, and WT is not the best fit at FSU. They need to go back to their glory days, and I don’t mean go back and pull a coach who had previously been there, but a playing style they are known for and that’s DEFENSE. The Noles use to be one of the top defenses in all the of college football, and they thrives on that success, and that’s what they need is an identity something they don’t have at all.

I don’t know who the next HC will be, but I would go with a defensive guru type of guy and hire the best dam OC and coaches to go with it, and tell them the offense is your thing, but defense is mine. There is someone out there who fits this pedigree I assure you, but going after high profile coaches isn’t the answer. Look at smaller conference for what they are doing even look at the smaller power 5 guys. Just remember going after the big hot shot coach is great, but what does that really bring you when looking at the LONG TERM OUT LOOK of your dying program?

Time to revive this thread

I've got FSU losing to Miami and Florida the rest of the way. If they lose to Wake or Syracuse, could be 6-6

FSU looks completely inept

Miami's a tossup. The offensive line has gone from last year's "worst in the FBS" to this year's "terrible". Next up might be below average trending toward average. I don't know what you expect anyone to be able to fix what Jimbo and Trickett left behind. Even the APR was so awful Taggart couldn't cut players who already quit in '18.

(10-12-2019 05:30 PM)bronconick Wrote:  Miami's a tossup. The offensive line has gone from last year's "worst in the FBS" to this year's "terrible". Next up might be below average trending toward average. I don't know what you expect anyone to be able to fix what Jimbo and Trickett left behind. Even the APR was so awful Taggart couldn't cut players who already quit in '18.

Every aspect of FSU football sucks. This game is proof of that

At least Miami has a good D and good RB. I expect them to best FSU

Quit using weak excuses about fixing what Jimbo did...at least he was developing players and sending them to the NFL, ala Dalvin Cook and Jalen Ramsey

The offensive and defensive gameplans are experimental, the team has no identity. After this game, it will only get worse

Effing Mark Richt would be coaching better than this crap

(09-10-2019 07:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2019 07:32 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When FSU announced hiring Taggart, I was surprised. From a far it just didn’t look like a good fit.

Bobby Bowden, Jimbo Fisher and Willie Taggart....

Taggart didn’t deserve to follow those two.....

Can’t believe FSU administrators thought otherwise. I’m sure FSU fans were scratching their heads when the hire was announced.

I thought it made a lot of sense for 2 reasons:
1) he's a Florida recruiter
2) he's a program rebuilder

I watched him at WKU as a player and coach. His teams were very undisciplined. He was 16-21 at WKU. Moved to USF after a 7-6 season and went 25-25 over four seasons.

Maybe it’s because I have watched him for the better part of 20 years but I just don’t see a career 47-50 coach being successful at FSU.

Honestly the guy reminds me of Ron Cooper. Ron could recruit but his teams were a train wreck on the field.

I still think Taggart is in over his head.

(09-01-2019 09:06 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Not much anyone could do without an OL. Give him a chance to recruit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did We lose to Him ? Beating WF 52-31 tonight in 4th

(10-12-2019 05:48 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(10-12-2019 05:30 PM)bronconick Wrote:  Miami's a tossup. The offensive line has gone from last year's "worst in the FBS" to this year's "terrible". Next up might be below average trending toward average. I don't know what you expect anyone to be able to fix what Jimbo and Trickett left behind. Even the APR was so awful Taggart couldn't cut players who already quit in '18.

Every aspect of FSU football sucks. This game is proof of that

At least Miami has a good D and good RB. I expect them to best FSU

Quit using weak excuses about fixing what Jimbo did...at least he was developing players and sending them to the NFL, ala Dalvin Cook and Jalen Ramsey

The offensive and defensive gameplans are experimental, the team has no identity. After this game, it will only get worse

Effing Mark Richt would be coaching better than this crap

Sure wasn't developing any O-line since Cam Erving left in 2015. Unless someone has $30+ million to buy him and the assistants out and hiring a new coach and staff, you might as well relax the next year or two and hope he's the Ron Zook who fills the roster for the Urban Meyer replacement. (Preferably without the murdering tight end)

(10-12-2019 05:22 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Time to revive this thread

I've got FSU losing to Miami and Florida the rest of the way. If they lose to Wake or Syracuse, could be 6-6

FSU looks completely inept

Looks like I was right

FSU football is a complete joke under Taggart. The Noles will never get better till they clean house

Personally I would let him go on Monday

FSU should get Drinkwitz from Appy.

I remember he was an assistant in the old college football video game and he would always take over a major program. Damn those guys did their homework.

Anyway, get him and the students will have great fun making up nicknames while their team improves.

(11-02-2019 09:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  FSU should get Drinkwitz from Appy.

I remember he was an assistant in the old college football video game and he would always take over a major program. Damn those guys did their homework.

Anyway, get him and the students will have great fun making up nicknames while their team improves.

Didn't Appy just lose there coach last year to Louisville? Seems you would want the builder of the program not the guy who took it over for 1 year when spending $30 mil on buyouts and new contracts.

True. It might be premature, but he seems to have a bright future.

Memphis coach might be a good target. Or maybe some KIFFIN and Weis Jr.?!?!

KIFFIN would definitely appreciate the FSU coeds.

(11-02-2019 11:03 PM)esayem Wrote:  True. It might be premature, but he seems to have a bright future.

Memphis coach might be a good target. Or maybe some KIFFIN and Weis Jr.?!?!

KIFFIN would definitely appreciate the FSU coeds.

The Memphis coach should be gone this year to a major P5 program but I don't think FSU is going to dump Taggart this year. He'll get at least 3 years.

(09-14-2019 10:56 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  I think the days of going after high profile coaches has or is coming to an end. Why the HELL would Dabo leave what he has clearly established in his tenure at Clemson? Oh he went to Alabama and played there etc, but what does that really mean? Nothing what so ever. He is higher than all mighty down there, and they are not letting him go, and I don’t think he is willing to walk away either.

The FSU job is one of the better high profile jobs out there regardless of bias opinion, but like a poster and others have mentioned I wasn’t stunned when they announced Taggart the HC of the Noles. If they were going to have someone come in and change everything up from the get go then they should have scoured the nation fo the best fit, and WT is not the best fit at FSU. They need to go back to their glory days, and I don’t mean go back and pull a coach who had previously been there, but a playing style they are known for and that’s DEFENSE. The Noles use to be one of the top defenses in all the of college football, and they thrives on that success, and that’s what they need is an identity something they don’t have at all.

I don’t know who the next HC will be, but I would go with a defensive guru type of guy and hire the best dam OC and coaches to go with it, and tell them the offense is your thing, but defense is mine. There is someone out there who fits this pedigree I assure you, but going after high profile coaches isn’t the answer. Look at smaller conference for what they are doing even look at the smaller power 5 guys. Just remember going after the big hot shot coach is great, but what does that really bring you when looking at the LONG TERM OUT LOOK of your dying program?

One place that often gets overlooked for coaching talent is the NFL, IMO. Alabama pulled Saban from there to begin with. I'm surprised more college programs aren't scouring the NFL for coaching talent.

(11-03-2019 01:17 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-14-2019 10:56 AM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  I think the days of going after high profile coaches has or is coming to an end. Why the HELL would Dabo leave what he has clearly established in his tenure at Clemson? Oh he went to Alabama and played there etc, but what does that really mean? Nothing what so ever. He is higher than all mighty down there, and they are not letting him go, and I don’t think he is willing to walk away either.

The FSU job is one of the better high profile jobs out there regardless of bias opinion, but like a poster and others have mentioned I wasn’t stunned when they announced Taggart the HC of the Noles. If they were going to have someone come in and change everything up from the get go then they should have scoured the nation fo the best fit, and WT is not the best fit at FSU. They need to go back to their glory days, and I don’t mean go back and pull a coach who had previously been there, but a playing style they are known for and that’s DEFENSE. The Noles use to be one of the top defenses in all the of college football, and they thrives on that success, and that’s what they need is an identity something they don’t have at all.

I don’t know who the next HC will be, but I would go with a defensive guru type of guy and hire the best dam OC and coaches to go with it, and tell them the offense is your thing, but defense is mine. There is someone out there who fits this pedigree I assure you, but going after high profile coaches isn’t the answer. Look at smaller conference for what they are doing even look at the smaller power 5 guys. Just remember going after the big hot shot coach is great, but what does that really bring you when looking at the LONG TERM OUT LOOK of your dying program?

One place that often gets overlooked for coaching talent is the NFL, IMO. Alabama pulled Saban from there to begin with. I'm surprised more college programs aren't scouring the NFL for coaching talent.

From my understanding, once you get to coach in the NFL, going back to coach at the college level is a step back or demotion with the dreaded grind of recruiting. Thats what David Walkers sister told me several years ago, when I ran into her at an Applebees, after I asked her if she thought he would ever consider coming back to coach at SU. David Walker is a former SU running back who had a brief stint in the NFL and then coached at SU under Paul Pasqualoni until Pasqualoni was fired in 2003. Walker was an NFL assistant until earlier this year when he left to spend time with his family

(09-01-2019 08:50 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 10:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 08:14 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-31-2019 06:33 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  It's hard to fire a coach after 2 years. I give him 3 years.

Yeah, but just to be sure he better sign a top 10 class...

Thought he was a terrible hire to begin with. I think a second sub 500 season and his gone.

If FSU loses to Virginia, and they very well could, things will get ugly. A loss to Clemson is assured. And if FSU loses to Miami?

I would fire him after that game and hire Briles as temporary head coach

Looks like I was right 100%

FSU oozes talent. If you are a coach and can't figure out how to utilize that talent, then there is something wrong with your coaching.

Just look at LSU...for years, Les Miles ran a pedestrian offense and eventually got fired for it. Ed Orgeron comes in, starts hiring the right people, and the offense explodes

Hell, look at Oregon post-Taggart right now. They are making a run at a playoff.

One of the Cardinal posters had it right on this thread...FSU needs to rebuild the D (along with the Oline). Too much was focused on trying to make a lightening fast offense work with Taggart. That's what he said from the beginning..."the players won't know what a huddle is (after he got there)"

FSU needs a disciplinarian. They need a coach that will whip them into shape