My memory is that capacity in the 70’s was 15,000; it’s now 12,500.

My memory is also that we were always above 12,500 in attendance in those years.

My memory is also that the attendance numbers may not have been an actual count.

Student attendance in the 70’s was much better than the subsequent decades and is cause for legit concern re: long term “viability” of the sport.

My memory is that we didn’t stay at “FBS” because the NCAA forced us into 1-AA, and when a donor was found to expand the stadium so that we wouldn’t be forced into 1-AA, the student body protested, the donor bailed, and the school went along with the NCAA ... like we do every time ... another issue for another time.

The latest strategic review is one of four in the program’s modern history to assess shortcomings and prepare for the future on a national landscape. The 2018 review found the 23 varsity sports in the program could not be sustained with the current financial model.

It takes a lot of money to operate 23 sports teams — $29.31 million in 2018 — but in the latest state audit of the athletic department’s finances, the program had operating income of about $29.26 million — for a loss of $46,655.

None of the flagship sports at William and Mary turn a profit, but that's common among college sports teams across the state.

JMU, which competes in the same conference as William and Mary, runs a $51.7 million athletic program that broke even last year. ODU’s $45.2 million athletic program fell short by about $918,000.



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So, we can't find 46k to sustain but we can pay $1.5mil....oh, forget it.

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(10-20-2019 07:07 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(10-20-2019 05:13 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(10-20-2019 04:46 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  So, a cap with the new logo and a couple of feathers behind it would sell on the bootleg market pretty well I bet, if the AD would turn a blind eye.

New logo design?

Who's got an embroidery machine?

Didn't do alot of research, but if enough interest, looks like we could do embroidered caps for less than $10 each (including embroidery setup fee) with minimum order of 48. I liked the khaki with forest green trim, with logo design in forest green and yellow gold.

https://www.4imprint.com/product/2423-E/...mbroidered

Secret way of identifying who's a fellow message board member.

(10-21-2019 11:36 AM)nj alum Wrote:  My memory is that capacity in the 70’s was 15,000; it’s now 12,500.

My memory is also that we were always above 12,500 in attendance in those years.

My memory is also that the attendance numbers may not have been an actual count.

Student attendance in the 70’s was much better than the subsequent decades and is cause for legit concern re: long term “viability” of the sport.

My memory is that we didn’t stay at “FBS” because the NCAA forced us into 1-AA, and when a donor was found to expand the stadium so that we wouldn’t be forced into 1-AA, the student body protested, the donor bailed, and the school went along with the NCAA ... like we do every time ... another issue for another time.

My memory was W&M reported any number for attendance they wanted - though the only time I saw the stadium FULL in the 70s was the Delaware game. The two sections on the end of the West side were always empty for every game.

You can count the seats on the East/West side before the remake. They had 525 seats each and we had 17 total sections - that's 8,900 permanent seats. You would have to assume the end zones seated over 6,000 to hit 15,000. I never believed it nor the rounded numbers they used to throw out.

My memory is also - if we ever had a "Sold Out" sign, it was never used in the 70s except for the Delaware game (thanks to their fans). Not sure they ever even had to make one until the CAA semifinal in 2004. After that game, sellouts became frequent, one or two per year.

My memory is also that W&M almost voted to dump football in 1975 as the cost and lack of revenue were killing us. The shift mandated by NCAA in 1982 was a blessing. The program played peer schools, we started to win and more people started coming to games.

My memory was students had few options for entertainment on Saturday afternoons in the 70s and could bring kegs into the stadium. That sure helped. Though even then, there were on average no more students than were sitting there cheering this past Saturday.

Now we did have a Marching Band - that I miss.

(10-21-2019 03:24 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  

(10-20-2019 07:07 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(10-20-2019 05:13 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(10-20-2019 04:46 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  So, a cap with the new logo and a couple of feathers behind it would sell on the bootleg market pretty well I bet, if the AD would turn a blind eye.

New logo design?

Who's got an embroidery machine?

Didn't do alot of research, but if enough interest, looks like we could do embroidered caps for less than $10 each (including embroidery setup fee) with minimum order of 48. I liked the khaki with forest green trim, with logo design in forest green and yellow gold.

https://www.4imprint.com/product/2423-E/...mbroidered

Secret way of identifying who's a fellow message board member.

Looks good. Just need to get 48 buyers at $7 or $8 a hat.

I'll buy 2.

I'm sure that they can't sell unauthorized merch, but I'd think you could move quite a few through the Tribe Club.

How about in a Tshirt. If we sell 20, theyre 18 bucks each

https://www.customink.com/designs/tribet...%20desktop

I thought the big deal was to grow our brand? If so, why does it take a bunch of messageboard fanatics to design and sell *nice* shirts on the black market? Shouldn't we be able to buy cool gear, at a *reasonable* price, from a W&M merchant? B&N and Campus Shop are overpriced, rarely have the good stuff in stock, and seem like BigBubba picked their merchandise. I do like the feathers, though.

Your link doesn't work for me nogre. Need to work some of your embedded voodoo or something.

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(10-21-2019 08:34 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I thought the big deal was to grow our brand? If so, why does it take a bunch of messageboard fanatics to design and sell *nice* shirts on the black market? Shouldn't we be able to buy cool gear, at a *reasonable* price, from a W&M merchant? B&N and Campus Shop are overpriced, rarely have the good stuff in stock, and seem like BigBubba picked their merchandise. I do like the feathers, though.

Your link doesn't work for me nogre. Need to work some of your embedded voodoo or something.

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  customink.JPG (Size: 55.67 KB / Downloads: 24)

Not sure how to embed the uploads here but this is a start. This program is a bit antiquated.

that is a nice shirt

I wonder if the feathers would look better emanating from the ampersand, rather than the “M” at the bottom?

(10-21-2019 09:10 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I wonder if the feathers would look better emanating from the ampersand, rather than the “M” at the bottom?

If enough people want that, I can try it. I was just trying to make a modernized version of the old logo.

(10-21-2019 09:15 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(10-21-2019 09:10 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I wonder if the feathers would look better emanating from the ampersand, rather than the “M” at the bottom?

If enough people want that, I can try it. I was just trying to make a modernized version of the old logo.

Or maybe just at the top of the M instead of the base.

Not to derail from the logo thing again, but wanted to chime in about attendance (more like give some data). Zable prior to the renovation was 12,259, then is was 11,686 during the renovation, and now it's 12,672. There have been sellouts recently, we've had signs on the schedule board that would say "Sold Out"; I know because I took a picture of it (sadly can't find it now). Student tickets was always a fluff, but if the non-student seats were all sold, they'd call it a sell out.

In 2009 we beat UVa, and that really got momentum going for butts in seats. Delaware and JMU were both sellouts.

In 2010 we were riding the high from the previous year and the semi-finals appearance. Villanova, Delaware, and Richmond were all sellouts (also the year we hit #1 ranking and JMU beat us without a single pass).

In 2011 we'd dipped out of the playoffs early, but after back to back years there was still good momentum. JMU, Towson, and ODU were all sellouts (they were all losses too).

Homecoming in 2013, 2015, and 2017 were sellouts. 2015 was the playoff year with Cluley, and a couple games at 90% attendance as well.

We clearly do well with Homecoming, though it would be great if the CAA would throw us a bone and not put JMU in late October. First game of the season usually very well attended as well. Parents weekend and Senior day sadly not as well attended as they used to be it seems.

Capacity used to be 15,000.

https://scdbwiki.swem.wm.edu/wiki/index....le_Stadium

(10-22-2019 02:57 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Capacity used to be 15,000.

https://scdbwiki.swem.wm.edu/wiki/index....le_Stadium

Wider butts as obesity epidemic took hold means fewer butts needed to fill stadium. I know my butt is wider than it was when I first sat in Zable in 1971 (before it was Zable)...

(10-22-2019 01:07 AM)hktribefan Wrote:  Not to derail from the logo thing again, but wanted to chime in about attendance (more like give some data). Zable prior to the renovation was 12,259, then is was 11,686 during the renovation, and now it's 12,672. There have been sellouts recently, we've had signs on the schedule board that would say "Sold Out"; I know because I took a picture of it (sadly can't find it now). Student tickets was always a fluff, but if the non-student seats were all sold, they'd call it a sell out.

In 2009 we beat UVa, and that really got momentum going for butts in seats. Delaware and JMU were both sellouts.

In 2010 we were riding the high from the previous year and the semi-finals appearance. Villanova, Delaware, and Richmond were all sellouts (also the year we hit #1 ranking and JMU beat us without a single pass).

In 2011 we'd dipped out of the playoffs early, but after back to back years there was still good momentum. JMU, Towson, and ODU were all sellouts (they were all losses too).

Homecoming in 2013, 2015, and 2017 were sellouts. 2015 was the playoff year with Cluley, and a couple games at 90% attendance as well.

We clearly do well with Homecoming, though it would be great if the CAA would throw us a bone and not put JMU in late October. First game of the season usually very well attended as well. Parents weekend and Senior day sadly not as well attended as they used to be it seems.

The 12,672 capacity has as of last year been revised to 11,666. I think that was due to Tribe Tavern replacing the south end zone seats.

(10-22-2019 02:57 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Capacity used to be 15,000.

https://scdbwiki.swem.wm.edu/wiki/index....le_Stadium

Not buying that. As I said, we know there were only 8900 permanent seats before the renovation. That's something you can actually count.

Anyway, the crowds were not any larger in the 70s. Always tons of empty seats.