Honestly, it’s a smart/shrewd move by UH....they weren’t winning the West this year anyway, and if they continued to play the redshirts, next year was shot as well. Once you get on that downward spiral, it’s tough to pull out.

They will most likely be the favorites in the AAC next year with this move, and it builds momentum for recruiting. Could be a program saver with respect to relevancy.

We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

(09-25-2019 12:31 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  Honestly, it’s a smart/shrewd move by UH....they weren’t winning the West this year anyway, and if they continued to play the redshirts, next year was shot as well. Once you get on that downward spiral, it’s tough to pull out.

They will most likely be the favorites in the AAC next year with this move, and it builds momentum for recruiting. Could be a program saver with respect to relevancy.

I dont know about favorites---but we should have our talent level back to where we can compete for the title again. The top to bottom quality of the West has become very impressive as SMU and Tulane continue to improve. The West could be a real dog fight where every game is freaking battle.

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

Very possible. While I absolutely believe Dana wanted to redshirt as much talent as possible this year---I remain skeptical that redshirting King was Dana's idea or preference. It may just be damage control. Maybe not. Like I said---I remain skeptical. That said, if it was Dana's idea, Im ok with it as the idea behind it is to build the program. Thats what the UH football program has lacked since the Briles/Sumlin period. It has not been in the hands of a competent coach who expected to be here more than a couple of years since that Briles/Sumlin period. Levine would have been here for the long term--but he simply wasnt competent (though he did recruit fairly well). Herman was very competent and a good recruiter, but it was clear early on he was never going to be a long term holder of the job. Applewhite was not a competent coach and, even worse, was a poor recruiter to boot. The program needed a guy who was competent, could assemble a quality staff who could recruit the area, and would be here a while. The program needed that stability and continuity for at least 4 or 5 years. Dana fit that set of needs perfectly.

(09-25-2019 12:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

Very possible. While I absolutely believe Dana wanted to redshirt as much talent as possible this year---I remain skeptical that redshirting King was Dana's idea or preference.

I honestly can't see any football coach having that type of loser mentality. These guys tend to have huge egos and a drive to win and intentionally tanking a season is the exact opposite of that.

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

I suspect this will prove to be the case. We'll see...

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:42 AM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:33 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:15 AM)pesik Wrote:  my good ....remove all context, why dont you...

this is a funny joke out of context...but people legitimately try and bring this up in real conversation like they are proving a point...

the full context was that we will not plateau at 8-4...you will not keep a job at houston passing 8-4 seasons as a success...if we feel the best you are capable of is 8-4 seasons you re fired,..

it has never been we will fire you at your 1st 8-4 season....weirdly enough holgs is going along with the true nature of that quote by redshiritng....this owuld have been medicore, without king next year would have been medicore, holgs is trying to avoid that

She was not joking. Houston actually does fire coaches going 8-4.

How long will you give your current coach to win ten games in the regular season?

What's even funnier is Dana won 10 games once in his entire coaching career with his own players. He inherited the entire team the other time he won 10 games the Orange Bowl. Other than that he has been extremely mediocre.

He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Actual results since the AAC’s inception contradicts your assertion. It is not easy to win in the AAC, UCF notwithstanding.

How long do you give your current coach to achieve and maintain ten regular season wins?

(09-25-2019 12:42 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

Very possible. While I absolutely believe Dana wanted to redshirt as much talent as possible this year---I remain skeptical that redshirting King was Dana's idea or preference.

I honestly can't see any football coach having that type of loser mentality. These guys tend to have huge egos and a drive to win and intentionally tanking a season is the exact opposite of that.

I agree... I think the reports from King's dad might have been true initially. That King and other players were fed up and they were ready to bail.... and when they went in to talk with Dana, he told them that he wanted them to stay and to just take a RS to think about staying before they decided to transfer.

I really feel bad for the guys who this will actually be their last season of CFB. Their teammates and their coaching staff left them in the lurch.

(09-25-2019 12:51 PM)invisiblehand Wrote:  I really feel bad for the guys who this will actually be their last season of CFB. Their teammates and their coaching staff left them in the lurch.

DING! DING! DING!

"Chickensh*t move", indeed.

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:42 AM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:33 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:15 AM)pesik Wrote:  my good ....remove all context, why dont you...

this is a funny joke out of context...but people legitimately try and bring this up in real conversation like they are proving a point...

the full context was that we will not plateau at 8-4...you will not keep a job at houston passing 8-4 seasons as a success...if we feel the best you are capable of is 8-4 seasons you re fired,..

it has never been we will fire you at your 1st 8-4 season....weirdly enough holgs is going along with the true nature of that quote by redshiritng....this owuld have been medicore, without king next year would have been medicore, holgs is trying to avoid that

She was not joking. Houston actually does fire coaches going 8-4.

How long will you give your current coach to win ten games in the regular season?

What's even funnier is Dana won 10 games once in his entire coaching career with his own players. He inherited the entire team the other time he won 10 games the Orange Bowl. Other than that he has been extremely mediocre.

He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Dana did ok recruiting at WVU. UH fans make it sound like he was finishing dead last every year and couldn't get any players to WVU. As I said before he basically recruited on par with everyone outside of OU and UT

WVU recruiting ranks by year.

2012(first season in Big 12)

7th
ahead of Kansas, KSU and ISU


2013

3rd
ahead of everyone but OU and UT

2014

6th
ahead of TCU(finished ahead of a Texas school!!), Kansas, KSU and ISU

2015

3rd.
ahead of everyone but UT and OU

2016

4th
ahead of everyone but OU,UT and TCU

2017

8th
only ahead of Kansas and Kstate

2018

5th
ahead of OSU, Kansas, K St, TT and Iowa St.


2019( majority of the class was Dana's)

6th
ahead of Iowa St, TT, K State and Kansas

(09-25-2019 01:05 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:42 AM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:33 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  She was not joking. Houston actually does fire coaches going 8-4.

How long will you give your current coach to win ten games in the regular season?

What's even funnier is Dana won 10 games once in his entire coaching career with his own players. He inherited the entire team the other time he won 10 games the Orange Bowl. Other than that he has been extremely mediocre.

He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Dana did ok recruiting at WVU. UH fans make it sound like he was finishing dead last every year and couldn't get any players to WVU. As I said before he basically recruited on par with everyone outside of OU and UT

WVU recruiting ranks by year.

2012(first season in Big 12)

7th
ahead of Kansas, KSU and ISU


2013

3rd
ahead of everyone but OU and UT

2014

6th
ahead of TCU(finished ahead of a Texas school!!), Kansas, KSU and ISU

2015

3rd.
ahead of everyone but UT and OU

2016

4th
ahead of everyone but OU,UT and TCU

2017

8th
only ahead of Kansas and Kstate

2018

5th
ahead of OSU, Kansas, K St, TT and Iowa St.


2019( majority of the class was Dana's)

6th
ahead of Iowa St, TT, K State and Kansas

Who said he did a bad job of recruiting? What was said was that he had a winning record despite being located 1000 miles outside of the main Big12 recruiting grounds and working with a smaller budget and lesser facilities. In other words, his recruiting was actually pretty impressive considering the circumstances.

(09-25-2019 02:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 01:05 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:42 AM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  What's even funnier is Dana won 10 games once in his entire coaching career with his own players. He inherited the entire team the other time he won 10 games the Orange Bowl. Other than that he has been extremely mediocre.

He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Dana did ok recruiting at WVU. UH fans make it sound like he was finishing dead last every year and couldn't get any players to WVU. As I said before he basically recruited on par with everyone outside of OU and UT

WVU recruiting ranks by year.

2012(first season in Big 12)

7th
ahead of Kansas, KSU and ISU


2013

3rd
ahead of everyone but OU and UT

2014

6th
ahead of TCU(finished ahead of a Texas school!!), Kansas, KSU and ISU

2015

3rd.
ahead of everyone but UT and OU

2016

4th
ahead of everyone but OU,UT and TCU

2017

8th
only ahead of Kansas and Kstate

2018

5th
ahead of OSU, Kansas, K St, TT and Iowa St.


2019( majority of the class was Dana's)

6th
ahead of Iowa St, TT, K State and Kansas

Who said he did a bad job of recruiting? What was said was that he had a winning record despite being located 1000 miles outside of the main Big12 recruiting grounds and working with a smaller budget and lesser facilities. In other words, his recruiting was actually pretty impressive considering the circumstances.

but WVU doesn't have a smaller budget and lesser facilities than the other Big 12 schools. I think they were third or 4th in revenue in the Big 12

(09-25-2019 02:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 01:05 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:42 AM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  What's even funnier is Dana won 10 games once in his entire coaching career with his own players. He inherited the entire team the other time he won 10 games the Orange Bowl. Other than that he has been extremely mediocre.

He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Dana did ok recruiting at WVU. UH fans make it sound like he was finishing dead last every year and couldn't get any players to WVU. As I said before he basically recruited on par with everyone outside of OU and UT

WVU recruiting ranks by year.

2012(first season in Big 12)

7th
ahead of Kansas, KSU and ISU


2013

3rd
ahead of everyone but OU and UT

2014

6th
ahead of TCU(finished ahead of a Texas school!!), Kansas, KSU and ISU

2015

3rd.
ahead of everyone but UT and OU

2016

4th
ahead of everyone but OU,UT and TCU

2017

8th
only ahead of Kansas and Kstate

2018

5th
ahead of OSU, Kansas, K St, TT and Iowa St.


2019( majority of the class was Dana's)

6th
ahead of Iowa St, TT, K State and Kansas

Who said he did a bad job of recruiting? What was said was that he had a winning record despite being located 1000 miles outside of the main Big12 recruiting grounds and working with a smaller budget and lesser facilities. In other words, his recruiting was actually pretty impressive considering the circumstances.

My point is that UH fans keep pointing to Dana's time at WVU as a disadvantage compared to the rest of the conference, when in reality thats simply not true. He had mediocre results on the field without being hamstrung by the school he was at.

WV produced 4 to 8 rated recruits total a year

In comparison Texas puts out 400-500

Ed Oliver would over 120 spots higher than the highest rated defensive commit in WVU history, Houston is currently top 2 for a QB that would be rated higher than every web WVU had while in the big 12

Let’s see how West Virginia does without him over the next 3 years.. and we’ll see how holgs does over here

(09-25-2019 02:56 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 02:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 01:05 PM)GimmethatPiratebooty Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 11:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  He averaged 7.6 wins per year at WV and won two out of seven bowl games. His win totals over the last three years are: 10, 7, and 8. At Houston, a similar trend would result in a firing, but instead Houston hired him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Holgorsen

yes...he did that in WVU recruiting grounds..vs big 12 teams recruiting in Texas..did i mention he was located in west virginia

him and the kansas twins were on the bottom of the totem pole in the big 12 in ability to get talent as was still competitive ...

he is atop the totem pole in the AAC, in one of the high school talent meccas in the nation in houston, texas

Dana did ok recruiting at WVU. UH fans make it sound like he was finishing dead last every year and couldn't get any players to WVU. As I said before he basically recruited on par with everyone outside of OU and UT

WVU recruiting ranks by year.

2012(first season in Big 12)

7th
ahead of Kansas, KSU and ISU


2013

3rd
ahead of everyone but OU and UT

2014

6th
ahead of TCU(finished ahead of a Texas school!!), Kansas, KSU and ISU

2015

3rd.
ahead of everyone but UT and OU

2016

4th
ahead of everyone but OU,UT and TCU

2017

8th
only ahead of Kansas and Kstate

2018

5th
ahead of OSU, Kansas, K St, TT and Iowa St.


2019( majority of the class was Dana's)

6th
ahead of Iowa St, TT, K State and Kansas

Who said he did a bad job of recruiting? What was said was that he had a winning record despite being located 1000 miles outside of the main Big12 recruiting grounds and working with a smaller budget and lesser facilities. In other words, his recruiting was actually pretty impressive considering the circumstances.

but WVU doesn't have a smaller budget and lesser facilities than the other Big 12 schools. I think they were third or 4th in revenue in the Big 12

Absolutely false---and it was especially so when the school first joined the Big12. For instance, here are the Big12 revenue rankings for 2015 (in millions)---

Texas--161 million
Oklahoma--129 million
Oklahoma St--117 million
Kansas--98 million
Baylor---87 million
W Virginia--78 million
Texas Tech-77 million
TCU-77 million
Kansas St--73 million
Iowa St--68 million

So, in 2015 they were the 6th largest budget, but only 1 million higher than #7 and #8 in a 10 team conference. Furthermore, as the conference outlier, WVU travel expenses are significantly higher than every other Big12 member---so they almost certainly had less money to work with than the #7th and #8th largest Big12 budgets in 2015 after travel expenses are considered. Its worth noting that the WVU budget represents less than half of the UT budget that year and about 60% of the Oklahoma budget.


https://www.profootballweekly.com/2015/0...e/afyao2c/


Even now, WVU is nowhere near the top of the Big12. Its budget is about 50% of Texas and about 2/3's the size of Oklahoma---the two key members that dominate the conference. That said, everyone else in the Big12 has fairly similar budgets at this point---which is why, for most Big 12 members, the race in the Big12 for is to be 3rd. Frankly, I think a lot of WVU fans think they should dominate the Big12 like they did the Big East. They arent the same leagues. Basically, its always going to be Texas or Oklahoma. Sure, once or twice every 10-15 years or so somebody else will break through---but for the most part the champ will be Texas or Oklahoma. Its hard to overcome that huge disparity in money, facilities, recruiting grounds, and name brand.

BE to B12 was lateral move

(09-25-2019 12:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

Very possible. While I absolutely believe Dana wanted to redshirt as much talent as possible this year---I remain skeptical that redshirting King was Dana's idea or preference. It may just be damage control. Maybe not. Like I said---I remain skeptical. That said, if it was Dana's idea, Im ok with it as the idea behind it is to build the program. Thats what the UH football program has lacked since the Briles/Sumlin period. It has not been in the hands of a competent coach who expected to be here more than a couple of years since that Briles/Sumlin period. Levine would have been here for the long term--but he simply wasnt competent (though he did recruit fairly well). Herman was very competent and a good recruiter, but it was clear early on he was never going to be a long term holder of the job. Applewhite was not a competent coach and, even worse, was a poor recruiter to boot. The program needed a guy who was competent, could assemble a quality staff who could recruit the area, and would be here a while. The program needed that stability and continuity for at least 4 or 5 years. Dana fit that set of needs perfectly.

I saw a tweet that his dad said he was redshirting and would transfer. Then something from King that he was going to redshirt this season, but hadn't spoken with his coach yet. Definitely wasn't Dana's idea.

(09-25-2019 07:09 PM)va-eagle Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-25-2019 12:32 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  We need to pin this thread for the evitable implosion when King announces that he got his degree and will be grad transferring to a P5 program for his last year to improve his draft stock. He's playing Houston for suckers. He is gone, but doesn't want it to be known because he wants to keep his scholarship and not be hated until he's done attending classes there. His dad let the cat out of the bag.

Very possible. While I absolutely believe Dana wanted to redshirt as much talent as possible this year---I remain skeptical that redshirting King was Dana's idea or preference. It may just be damage control. Maybe not. Like I said---I remain skeptical. That said, if it was Dana's idea, Im ok with it as the idea behind it is to build the program. Thats what the UH football program has lacked since the Briles/Sumlin period. It has not been in the hands of a competent coach who expected to be here more than a couple of years since that Briles/Sumlin period. Levine would have been here for the long term--but he simply wasnt competent (though he did recruit fairly well). Herman was very competent and a good recruiter, but it was clear early on he was never going to be a long term holder of the job. Applewhite was not a competent coach and, even worse, was a poor recruiter to boot. The program needed a guy who was competent, could assemble a quality staff who could recruit the area, and would be here a while. The program needed that stability and continuity for at least 4 or 5 years. Dana fit that set of needs perfectly.

I saw a tweet that his dad said he was redshirting and would transfer. Then something from King that he was going to redshirt this season, but hadn't spoken with his coach yet. Definitely wasn't Dana's idea.

king said the dad mispoke.....they had a presser the very next day (yesterday) with numerous interviews..they basically explained the timeline

1- note: dana has atleast 20 articles this preseason that he wanted to red-shirt as many seniors as possible

2- immediately after the tulane loss last friday dana gathered a bunch of seniors and brought the idea to them, but said they had to decide themselves

3- king said forget transferring, the idea of even redshirting wasnt something in the realm of possibilities in his mind...his mindset was just pushing through the rest of the season

4- a bunch of players together decided over the weekend they wanted to do it..

5- dana hints there might be more players but didnt give names

here are the budgets for 2019 (2018 and 17 would have been the same)

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

showing WVU clearly 4th in Big 12 budget

also uH fans seem to not understand how recruiting works......teams are not limited to recruiting in their own state they can recruit anywhere in the USA or even internationally so putting up some meaningless stat about how many prospects WV produces shows nothing

how many does Idaho produce....probably not many yet Boise has a much longer, more consistent, and better history of winning than a program in the bestest mostest greatest recruiting fertilities evAR!!!!

and somehow no matter how many times the fans of one program declare Boise dead Boise still ends up and has consistently better seasons then they do and has never had to give up on a season yet even with many coaching changes

it is all the more laughable to talk about the Astros......as if recruiting in college goes by draft order or you get better picks when you tank a season or you can make trades for younger players......here is a hint when you win more in college it makes it easier to recruit you do not get a better draft pick and I do not remember any top coach coming in and tanking a season and all the more so thinking it would not work against recruiting

(09-25-2019 10:43 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  here are the budgets for 2019 (2018 and 17 would have been the same)

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

showing WVU clearly 4th in Big 12 budget

also uH fans seem to not understand how recruiting works......teams are not limited to recruiting in their own state they can recruit anywhere in the USA or even internationally so putting up some meaningless stat about how many prospects WV produces shows nothing

how many does Idaho produce....probably not many yet Boise has a much longer, more consistent, and better history of winning than a program in the bestest mostest greatest recruiting fertilities evAR!!!!

and somehow no matter how many times the fans of one program declare Boise dead Boise still ends up and has consistently better seasons then they do and has never had to give up on a season yet even with many coaching changes

it is all the more laughable to talk about the Astros......as if recruiting in college goes by draft order or you get better picks when you tank a season or you can make trades for younger players......here is a hint when you win more in college it makes it easier to recruit you do not get a better draft pick and I do not remember any top coach coming in and tanking a season and all the more so thinking it would not work against recruiting

boise solely hasnt won the mwc in like 6 years....and boise succes is becuase they were able to keep a winning coach for 9 years.... ive said this before the reason i like holgs a lot is becuase he really want to stay in houston till he is done coaching..

a common argument before was that he just wants to cash checks till he retires and doesnt care winning like that....ironically now, its i cant believe a coaches would go to such measures to win games

as far as your recrutiting points.. getting people to come west viriginia isnt easy at all.. west virginia has lived off of juco despite being..they have an abnornal amount of jucos for a p5 team not named kansas st...