(08-22-2019 08:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  Chinese quality is horrendous. I think anyone who sources food from China is crazy. They keep finding contaminants in various products. There was a National Geographic article on China a few years back. Entrepreneurs tend move their factory from town to town whenever the incentives run out.

It can be horrendous, but a company using China doesn’t care about quality. It’s the quantity they want.

You can watch it and judge for yourself. They definitely claim safety goes downhill after the Chinese took over the plant.

(08-22-2019 08:25 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 08:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  Chinese quality is horrendous. I think anyone who sources food from China is crazy. They keep finding contaminants in various products. There was a National Geographic article on China a few years back. Entrepreneurs tend move their factory from town to town whenever the incentives run out.

I’m old enough to remember the term “Japanese Junk”. Once the Chinese “get it” they’ll kick our azzes.

They're a long way from getting it.

They still have sweatshop conditions and workers committing suicide. In fact, some company even installed nets to catch jumpers.

I recently retired after almost 40 years in manufacturing. I was plant manager for a company that is moving its business to China closer to its biggest customer. I was offered the opportunity to “manage” the Chinese facility for two years or take full retirement. I took the money and ran.

From what I gathered from speaking with my Chinese counterparts, things are coming together so quickly there that the antiquated infrastructure of the cities is having a difficult time keeping up. The biggest complaint I heard from my engineers there training the new Chinese workforce was about undependable power.
They can’t provide enough electric yet to consistently power all of the industry in the new industrial parks.

(08-22-2019 10:19 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 08:25 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 08:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  Chinese quality is horrendous. I think anyone who sources food from China is crazy. They keep finding contaminants in various products. There was a National Geographic article on China a few years back. Entrepreneurs tend move their factory from town to town whenever the incentives run out.

I’m old enough to remember the term “Japanese Junk”. Once the Chinese “get it” they’ll kick our azzes.

They're a long way from getting it.

They still have sweatshop conditions and workers committing suicide. In fact, some company even installed nets to catch jumpers.

The Chinese don't have a Judeo-Christian values system underlying capitalism. That makes it worse than we had it in the robber baron era.

That value system underlies our Constitution and our market economy and limits the excesses.

Anything that puts more coin in Obama's pockets, no thank you.

Right now I'm sticking with Netflix until the Ranch and Lucifer finale.

(08-22-2019 12:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 10:19 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 08:25 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-22-2019 08:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  Chinese quality is horrendous. I think anyone who sources food from China is crazy. They keep finding contaminants in various products. There was a National Geographic article on China a few years back. Entrepreneurs tend move their factory from town to town whenever the incentives run out.

I’m old enough to remember the term “Japanese Junk”. Once the Chinese “get it” they’ll kick our azzes.

They're a long way from getting it.

They still have sweatshop conditions and workers committing suicide. In fact, some company even installed nets to catch jumpers.

The Chinese don't have a Judeo-Christian values system underlying capitalism. That makes it worse than we had it in the robber baron era.

That value system underlies our Constitution and our market economy and limits the excesses.

You're exactly right.

(08-22-2019 02:26 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  Anything that puts more coin in Obama's pockets, no thank you.

Right now I'm sticking with Netflix until the Ranch and Lucifer finale.

My bank card was recently compromised so the credit union cancelled it.

I haven't updated my Netflix account with the new payment card info so essentially, my account is on hold.

So Netflix kinda did my work for me.


I no longer feel like I have to have a netflix subscription, for various reason.

Little-known-fact: Ex-Presidents didn't get any kind of gov’t. pension until the 1950s. Then Truman started getting one because he had no other regular income.
[/quote]

Well, what do ya expect? He was a Democrat. LOL

(08-21-2019 08:17 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  So today marks the debut of a new documentary on Netflix called American Factory. It's a look at the Fuyao Auto Glass factory in Ohio (I think it's on the outskirts of Dayton) that eventually replaced a shuttered GM plant a few years after the GM plant closed down. And of course it's getting a lot of publicity because it's being produced by Higher Ground Productions, which is the new filmmaking group founded by the Obamas (and being heavily subsidized by Netflix).

While I don't expect most of you to watch the documentary or praise it in any way, I of course did watch it today and thought it was really well done. And I'm going to offer up my review of it anyway.

First off, it's certainly political - I doubt anything the Obamas do will be apolitical. But I really don't see it as a direct knock against Trump at all. He's not mentioned in the documentary. I'd describe it more as a really interesting look at the contrast in culture between American workers and Chinese workers, and also a cautionary tale about automation in industry. It's also pro-union in a way, but it's also not really pro-union if that makes sense because (spoiler alert) Fuyao's workers overwhelmingly rejected a chance to join the UAW union.

The American version of the Fuyao factory suffered greatly compared to the productivity of the Chinese factories because Americans are deemed lazy by the Chinese. The Chinese workers gladly work 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week and at much higher levels during that time. Meanwhile, the American shifts are 8 hours and they work 5 days a week. The first half of the documentary really does a good job of showing the different cultures at work both in Ohio and China. The second half of the film talks more about the union vote and then eventually talks about how automation finally makes the American plant profitable at the end.

There were some interesting interviews during the film. One lady mentioned she made $29 an hour working for GM, and was down to about $12 an hour (to begin with - I think she got a bit of a raise later) at Fuyao pretty much doing the same thing.

If you work in a factory or an occupation that has a union, I think you'll like the film. I'm guessing future Obama content on Netflix might make some of you angry, but I don't think this documentary will anger anyone unless you're just annoyed with how much money Netflix has given their production company.

I havent watched it yet--but intend to. From what Im seeing posted so far---I suspect it wont be overtly political---but it will be very reflective of the oft stated Obama belief that America's place in a competitive world community will mean we should expect less in the future. He always had a way of saying it nicely---but the message was basically---in the words of Bruce Springsteen---"Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back". Like I said--Obama always found a way to phrase it subtlely---but it was clear his belief was that America's best days were behind it and we may as well get used to a lower standard of living as part of the new global economy. Obama was was clearly not a big believer in the idea of "American exceptionalism".

I suspect that is exactly what really irks many liberals and "one world order" global community types most about the current president---Trump is an unabashedly loud and obnoxiously proud believer in the concept of "American Exceptionalism".

(08-22-2019 10:13 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  You can watch it and judge for yourself. They definitely claim safety goes downhill after the Chinese took over the plant.

Well sure, but that would be bias against the Chinese and not against Republicans.

The issue then comes in where if your competition is able to do things you can't because of safety (or green energy or lower standard of living or whatever else), you have a few choices...

1 is to simply close your business and let them provide the products.
2 is to somehow partner with or invest in them, let them provide the products and you just sell them
3 is to compete with them using something that somehow mitigates the advantages they have
4 is to put tariffs on their products in an effort to force them to be more equal to us, or at least hold military action in some manner in reserve

This is what I would see Republicans and some Democrats do.

There are some Democrats whom I see simply 'demanding' that somehow we stop them from undercutting us... that we stop them from being able to sell their products here etc etc etc, but they want us to do it without trade wars or losing jobs or whatever else without any rational economics behind it.

Ok, so now a prospective after actually watching the documentary. Basically, what I got from it was Chinese manufacturing workers are simply more enthusiastic and dedicated than their American counterparts. That said, I would say that American workers are more enthusiastic and dedicated than European workers. I suspect there is little doubt that the Chinese Communist culture of fear of---and pure obedience to---authority is part of the reason for this difference.

Something nobody mentioned---but struck me as interesting----I dont remember seeing a single overweight Chinese worker or manager other than the actual company owner. In stark contrast---many of the American workers and most of the management staff were carrying extra baggage. lol....In fact, when the key management staff travels to China for some extra training---the reflective safety vests used in China wont fit all the way around one of the managers. I also thought the scenes where the Chinese are teaching their staff how to deal with the differences in Chinese and American culture were intriguing. It was an excellent window into the Chinese perception of Americans.

Throughout the decades---America has always risen to the challenge. I remember in the 1980's everyone was convinced that Japan was about to overtake the US and would soon buy up all the major American industries and landmarks. It didnt happen. Yes, we have probably allowed ourselves to get a little to soft as a nation---but I do believe the spirit of innovation and American Exceptionalism is still here and ready for the challenge. That said, the Chinese work ethic is part of what makes China a formidable competitor for our manufacturing industries.