(05-24-2019 01:57 PM)JhanJo Wrote:  While I get the idea of committing to a kid and continuing to keep him on scholarship, I think because he graduated the school honored their end of the deal in this case.

This!

No doubt Anthony Miller was never confronted with this issue. Reason being, Miller clearly contributed to the program on the field, even coming into the program as a walk-on, he earned a scholarship through his play on the field. And that's the bottom line. Guys that are contributing to the program on the field, will never be confronted with this issue apart from some off the field overriding issue that might be detrimental to the program. But Hill kept his scholarship despite being red-shirted, despite thereafter not contributing on the field & was able to graduate ON SCHOLARSHIP. At that point, Hill's scholarship was not renewed & a pressing FB need was satisfied. But instead of Hill being appreciative for the paid education & the association with the program, he has taken a passive-aggressive & very public stance that is detrimental to our coach & the university which no doubt as caused teammates & fans to choose sides. And through the whole process Hill faints nativity regarding his ignorance of the annual renewal process that confronts all on scholarship - even if it doesn't happen often (it is certainly not rare). The dynamics of relationships, Hill being a local guy. a great student etc all elicit empathy even sympathy for his situation but let's not forget that Hill received his education free of charge courtesy of the university & its supporters through his undergrad degree. And apparently Hill doesn't want us to forget either & doesn't appreciate the detriment to the team by his public protest, even though this decision has been made - by a coach who despite any level of benevolence will be paid based upon wins & losses, and not by extending a scholarship to someone for post grad work who is not contributing on the field. Fairness is a two-way street, in a sport where success is measured by wins & losses.

(05-24-2019 01:29 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  I disagree with the majority here. Strongly.

A scholarship is a commitment. On paper it's a year to year thing, but in reality you are telling a kid if he commits to you, you commit to him.

Barring a egregious lack of effort or discipline / grade issues, a scholarship should be honored. Period, full stop.

If a player decides to transfer for different opportunities, that's fine and part of the gig.

Pulling a player's scholarship in good standing is crap.

If he's graduated, I don't see the problem. I don't see why the university should be on the hook to cover whatever graduate program he wants to pursue for the next two years if he's not going to contribute on the field.

Hill should probably leave town and not return. He has damaged his ability to succeed in Memphis after football now.

(05-28-2019 04:06 PM)Keeper Wrote:  Hill should probably leave town and not return. He has damaged his ability to succeed in Memphis after football now.

Not at all— many current and former players have spoke on his behalf. I have no personal ties to the kid, and I want a successful football program, but academics come first. Coach Dickey talked him out of Harvard with the understanding that he could come to Memphis, earn his degree, and possibly a graduate degree. This is definitely not going to help us recruit private school kids outside of Memphis. It sounds like people on here want to prioritize wins over academics and that’s not the purpose of college athletics.

(05-28-2019 04:54 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 04:06 PM)Keeper Wrote:  Hill should probably leave town and not return. He has damaged his ability to succeed in Memphis after football now.

Not at all— many current and former players have spoke on his behalf. I have no personal ties to the kid, and I want a successful football program, but academics come first. Coach Dickey talked him out of Harvard with the understanding that he could come to Memphis, earn his degree, and possibly a graduate degree. This is definitely not going to help us recruit private school kids outside of Memphis. It sounds like people on here want to prioritize wins over academics and that’s not the purpose of college athletics.

Who are you kidding? Or course we prioritize wins. It's a football team, not a spelling bee. Coaches don't get multi-million dollar contracts for getting kids on the honor roll.

And Hunter isn't being prevented from attaining any academic goals he has. It's just the athletic department is no longer paying for his education.

(05-28-2019 04:54 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 04:06 PM)Keeper Wrote:  Hill should probably leave town and not return. He has damaged his ability to succeed in Memphis after football now.

Not at all— many current and former players have spoke on his behalf. I have no personal ties to the kid, and I want a successful football program, but academics come first. Coach Dickey talked him out of Harvard with the understanding that he could come to Memphis, earn his degree, and possibly a graduate degree. This is definitely not going to help us recruit private school kids outside of Memphis. It sounds like people on here want to prioritize wins over academics and that’s not the purpose of college athletics.

I listened to about half of the interview, and he didnt say thats what Coach Dickey said. Let me know if its re-clairified in the second half, because I havent listened that far yet, but I listened closely to the words he used in the first part of the interview about what Dickey said, and it wasnt anything close to that.

He also said other programs had contacted him and told him this was "unusual." Its not, and now he's being a willing propaganda machine to be used against us in recruiting.

Also interesting that he said after this year's spring practice that he decided to be more vocal about his playing time. This is the same time that Norvell has already said he needed to look at other possibilities. It appears to me that he knew his scholly was in jeopardy, made a half-hearted attempt to talk to the coach about more playing time (which he should have been doing LONG before now) and Norvell was already moving on.

(05-28-2019 05:26 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 04:54 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 04:06 PM)Keeper Wrote:  Hill should probably leave town and not return. He has damaged his ability to succeed in Memphis after football now.

Not at all— many current and former players have spoke on his behalf. I have no personal ties to the kid, and I want a successful football program, but academics come first. Coach Dickey talked him out of Harvard with the understanding that he could come to Memphis, earn his degree, and possibly a graduate degree. This is definitely not going to help us recruit private school kids outside of Memphis. It sounds like people on here want to prioritize wins over academics and that’s not the purpose of college athletics.

I listened to about half of the interview, and he didnt say thats what Coach Dickey said. Let me know if its re-clairified in the second half, because I havent listened that far yet, but I listened closely to the words he used in the first part of the interview about what Dickey said, and it wasnt anything close to that.

He also said other programs had contacted him and told him this was "unusual." Its not, and now he's being a willing propaganda machine to be used against us in recruiting.

Also interesting that he said after this year's spring practice that he decided to be more vocal about his playing time. This is the same time that Norvell has already said he needed to look at other possibilities. It appears to me that he knew his scholly was in jeopardy, made a half-hearted attempt to talk to the coach about more playing time (which he should have been doing LONG before now) and Norvell was already moving on.

What Hill actually said was that since Harvard didn't offer athletic scholarships, that it wasn't really in the cards at $100K per year. He mentioned no specifics about being promised an opportunity to get a grad degree but alluded to there being no specific limit on how the scholarship could be used.

(05-28-2019 11:10 AM)angusbethune Wrote:  This was just not handled in the smartest way... The big reason this is a story is because the kid graduated early and wanted to pursue an advanced degree.

Given that his focus was academics and not football, I'm betting CMN could have figured out a graduate assistant position for him (either in the athletic dept or with FCBE). There are likely to be a number of GA positions open for the summer/fall.

Did CMN have the obligation to figure this out? No. Would it have been worth his (or really his staff's) time to avoid the negative attention? Probably.

Sounds like a smart driven kid that will do great things, just hope he doesn't fully sour on Memphis. Could be a great alumni if he stays on his current trajectory.

Just hope history doesn't repeat itself ... similar situations were the beginning of the end of Rey Dempsey ... pushed kids out that he didn't recruit; especially Memphis area kids; and damaged a lot of coaching relationships that took YEARS to get back ... granted, two different eras, but lets hope everyone can get past this positively ... don't hate on coach, don't hate on the kid, and don't hate on each other as Tiger fans ..

Unlike Dempsey, Norvell is winning.... consistently.

Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

Come on man, who actually reads the language of a scholarship contract? I was on academic scholarship while at Memphis and I never read all of it, nor did my parents. I knew the generic overview, and that was it.

Listen to the interview, and you will hear 2 guys that were on scholarship to play football discussing how they never knew it was renewable. That is why Hunter came out with his tweet explaining the entire scenario. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of kids on football scholarship here don't know that they are yearly contracts. They expect to be on scholarship for however long they are on the team. Every year on Senior Day there are kids that I don't ever recall making any significant contributions on the field, yet they remained on scholarship. Sure, it comes off as negative to Norvell, but facts are facts.

I hate that his academic plan didn't work out the way he planned, but I'm sure he will be fine.

I also hope all of you that are blasting Hunter don't say anything negative about a kid that transfers out of any program here again.

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

maybe Wingett's coach was honest and had more class than Hill's coach??

just a thought....

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

I would bet the pitch to the kid is we need you and you can help us win games with the skillset you have.

I would seriously doubt the pitch is you will need to compete to keep your scholly every year.

So yeah the contract says it is yearly...But some people actually trust a persons words.

(05-29-2019 07:56 AM)TigerGrad02 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

Come on man, who actually reads the language of a scholarship contract? I was on academic scholarship while at Memphis and I never read all of it, nor did my parents. I knew the generic overview, and that was it.

Listen to the interview, and you will hear 2 guys that were on scholarship to play football discussing how they never knew it was renewable. That is why Hunter came out with his tweet explaining the entire scenario. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of kids on football scholarship here don't know that they are yearly contracts. They expect to be on scholarship for however long they are on the team. Every year on Senior Day there are kids that I don't ever recall making any significant contributions on the field, yet they remained on scholarship. Sure, it comes off as negative to Norvell, but facts are facts.

I hate that his academic plan didn't work out the way he planned, but I'm sure he will be fine.

I also hope all of you that are blasting Hunter don't say anything negative about a kid that transfers out of any program here again.

But you knew the important facets of your scholarship; A.) What you had to do academically to maintain your scholarship and B.) If you did not maintain A then your scholarship would taken away.

I assure you that all athletes know their scholarship is not guaranteed year to year and that they can be cut or pushed out because they see it happen every year. Not to mention they all know they can transfer at any point, so clearly they are not locked down for four years...

(05-29-2019 08:23 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 07:56 AM)TigerGrad02 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

Come on man, who actually reads the language of a scholarship contract? I was on academic scholarship while at Memphis and I never read all of it, nor did my parents. I knew the generic overview, and that was it.

Listen to the interview, and you will hear 2 guys that were on scholarship to play football discussing how they never knew it was renewable. That is why Hunter came out with his tweet explaining the entire scenario. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of kids on football scholarship here don't know that they are yearly contracts. They expect to be on scholarship for however long they are on the team. Every year on Senior Day there are kids that I don't ever recall making any significant contributions on the field, yet they remained on scholarship. Sure, it comes off as negative to Norvell, but facts are facts.

I hate that his academic plan didn't work out the way he planned, but I'm sure he will be fine.

I also hope all of you that are blasting Hunter don't say anything negative about a kid that transfers out of any program here again.

But you knew the important facets of your scholarship; A.) What you had to do academically to maintain your scholarship and B.) If you did not maintain A then your scholarship would taken away.

I assure you that all athletes know their scholarship is not guaranteed year to year and that they can be cut or pushed out because they see it happen every year. Not to mention they all know they can transfer at any point, so clearly they are not locked down for four years...

I see where you are coming from, but saying all athletes know scholarships are not guaranteed year to year is misleading. As Gabe and Hunter said on the call, and in my experience with relatives/friends on athletic scholarship, the expectation is that a scholarship is going to be available as long as the athlete doesn't flunk out or do something egregious off the field that warrants dismissal from the team or university.

Players can transfer at any time, you are correct. However, they have to sit out a year (I know the transfer portal is moving to immediate transfers when possible). If universities or programs didn't expect players to be here 4 or 5 years, there never would've been an issue with a coach limiting where a transferring player could enroll at next.

I know college athletics is big business, but that doesn't mean you can't be annoyed/put off with a decision they make.

(05-29-2019 09:08 AM)TigerGrad02 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 08:23 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 07:56 AM)TigerGrad02 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

Come on man, who actually reads the language of a scholarship contract? I was on academic scholarship while at Memphis and I never read all of it, nor did my parents. I knew the generic overview, and that was it.

Listen to the interview, and you will hear 2 guys that were on scholarship to play football discussing how they never knew it was renewable. That is why Hunter came out with his tweet explaining the entire scenario. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of kids on football scholarship here don't know that they are yearly contracts. They expect to be on scholarship for however long they are on the team. Every year on Senior Day there are kids that I don't ever recall making any significant contributions on the field, yet they remained on scholarship. Sure, it comes off as negative to Norvell, but facts are facts.

I hate that his academic plan didn't work out the way he planned, but I'm sure he will be fine.

I also hope all of you that are blasting Hunter don't say anything negative about a kid that transfers out of any program here again.

But you knew the important facets of your scholarship; A.) What you had to do academically to maintain your scholarship and B.) If you did not maintain A then your scholarship would taken away.

I assure you that all athletes know their scholarship is not guaranteed year to year and that they can be cut or pushed out because they see it happen every year. Not to mention they all know they can transfer at any point, so clearly they are not locked down for four years...

I see where you are coming from, but saying all athletes know scholarships are not guaranteed year to year is misleading. As Gabe and Hunter said on the call, and in my experience with relatives/friends on athletic scholarship, the expectation is that a scholarship is going to be available as long as the athlete doesn't flunk out or do something egregious off the field that warrants dismissal from the team or university.

Players can transfer at any time, you are correct. However, they have to sit out a year (I know the transfer portal is moving to immediate transfers when possible). If universities or programs didn't expect players to be here 4 or 5 years, there never would've been an issue with a coach limiting where a transferring player could enroll at next.

I know college athletics is big business, but that doesn't mean you can't be annoyed/put off with a decision they make.

So, you are saying you are annoyed that the university kept Hunter on scholarship until he graduated?

Lesson learned, welcome to the adult world - READ THE SMALL PRINT. Thank goodness my father warned me to never sign anything until you have read it and anyone who wants you to hurry up without doing so is suspect.

(05-29-2019 06:56 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 10:22 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  Everybody has their own opinions, but I do believe that if Hill didn't graduate, then he would still be on scholarship. We all know Wingett was forced out too. I can honestly careless about scholarships being "one year" because we are recruiting kids for four years, not "one year then you're gone."

College coaches are lying out of their you know what just to lure a player in, but they seem to have no problem dropping the player, which screws the player.

You are way off base. The FB scholarship is to attract players to become part of a team to WIN games. In exchange, they get a free ride on education costs. Hill got all of the free ride because HE GRADUATED, but apparently couldn't cut it on the field.

You have a warped sense of who was screwed in this transaction. No lying, if these players & their parents can read even at a 3rd grade level, they see the contract language that is clear - it is a one year contract. The university clearly fulfilled its contract & renewed at least twice with Hill. Interesting you mentioned Wingett - go read what his dad had to say, we can only hope some of his class will rub off on you & Hill's sympathizers.

You clearly have this "one year" contract down like you know word per word on that sheet. So, if that's the case, then send me proof that student athletes only have one year contracts? If you 110% know that all student athletes have one year contracts, then show me proof.