Location isn't the only thing to factor when you realign teams/schools.

I'm not sure it's even the top factor.

(03-06-2019 12:55 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 12:09 PM)panama Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:01 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Big East/AAC taken all 7 C-USA schools that joined that league all at once you probably end up with a regional C-USA and SBC:

Marshall looks around at UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB and says screw it, we're joining the MAC.

The 4 remaining schools make some phone calls to WAC schools, who too are facing conference instability. NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech all jump ship bringing C-USA membership to 8.

C-USA then lures UNT, Ark St, and ULL over. UTA is told they can be #12 if they bring back football, if not they're either bringing up an FCS school or letting Idaho be a FB affiliate.

SBC membership sits at FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, ULM, and non-FB UALR. GA St, GA Southern, and App St join as full members. ODU and Charlotte start FBS programs that are SBC fb affiliats but keep the rest of their sports in the A-10 and CAA.

What needs to happen is UTEP and NMSU get admitted to the MWC. The SBC and CUSA exchange schools for more regionally balanced conferences.

These are all sports conferences. Non-football schools move to another conference.

SBC

UTSA, Texas State, Rice, Louisiana, S. Miss, Troy
N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State, Middle Tennessee, WKU, UAB

The remaining schools are in CUSA.

CUSA

Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, App State, Coastal Carolina, add Liberty
GA State, GA Southern, FIU, FAU, S. Alabama, ULM

Why would I want to change the status quo and STILL end up in a different conference than by far the closest G5 to us?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Because all of your conference members would be on the East coast, except ULM and USA. Exclude them if you want. This is a far better geographical and rivalry setup for GA State and all the schools in this CUSA configuration. The same is true for the reconfigured SBC.

I'm pretty sure we're going to get WKU, MT & UAB in the divorce. Maybe USM too. You can decide what you want to do with ULM & USA. And Liberty is fine where they are.

(03-06-2019 01:15 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 12:55 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 12:09 PM)panama Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:01 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Big East/AAC taken all 7 C-USA schools that joined that league all at once you probably end up with a regional C-USA and SBC:

Marshall looks around at UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB and says screw it, we're joining the MAC.

The 4 remaining schools make some phone calls to WAC schools, who too are facing conference instability. NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech all jump ship bringing C-USA membership to 8.

C-USA then lures UNT, Ark St, and ULL over. UTA is told they can be #12 if they bring back football, if not they're either bringing up an FCS school or letting Idaho be a FB affiliate.

SBC membership sits at FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, ULM, and non-FB UALR. GA St, GA Southern, and App St join as full members. ODU and Charlotte start FBS programs that are SBC fb affiliats but keep the rest of their sports in the A-10 and CAA.

What needs to happen is UTEP and NMSU get admitted to the MWC. The SBC and CUSA exchange schools for more regionally balanced conferences.

These are all sports conferences. Non-football schools move to another conference.

SBC

UTSA, Texas State, Rice, Louisiana, S. Miss, Troy
N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State, Middle Tennessee, WKU, UAB

The remaining schools are in CUSA.

CUSA

Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, App State, Coastal Carolina, add Liberty
GA State, GA Southern, FIU, FAU, S. Alabama, ULM

Why would I want to change the status quo and STILL end up in a different conference than by far the closest G5 to us?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Because all of your conference members would be on the East coast, except ULM and USA. Exclude them if you want. This is a far better geographical and rivalry setup for GA State and all the schools in this CUSA configuration. The same is true for the reconfigured SBC.

I'm pretty sure we're going to get WKU, MT & UAB in the divorce. Maybe USM too. You can decide what you want to do with ULM & USA. And Liberty is fine where they are.

i've wondered where USM and UAB would go in a split situation. they seem to easily line up with either new conference set up. Also, USA should be a western team.

How can we bring up some FCS schools to help with the location issues?

Chattanooga could actually renew rivalry games with former SoCon schools.

Missouri State could kindle a rivalry game with Arkansas State.

Jacksonville State and Tennessee State are strong against P5 schools and renew rivalry games with former OVC,

James Madison, Delaware, Richmond, Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFA, N. Iowa, Jackson State, UCA and McNeese State all could fill holes as well.

The key word is location. C-USA for both east and west are spread apart. SBC is also spread apart in the west. You really need a bridge towards UTEP which really none of the schools would help. Marshall and ODU are off to themselves. The Florida twins are off by their selves. You need more schools than what we have between the two conferences.

The mess that is CUSA does not need to add extra mouths to feed regardless of the institutions location.

(03-06-2019 12:55 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 12:09 PM)panama Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:01 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Big East/AAC taken all 7 C-USA schools that joined that league all at once you probably end up with a regional C-USA and SBC:

Marshall looks around at UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB and says screw it, we're joining the MAC.

The 4 remaining schools make some phone calls to WAC schools, who too are facing conference instability. NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech all jump ship bringing C-USA membership to 8.

C-USA then lures UNT, Ark St, and ULL over. UTA is told they can be #12 if they bring back football, if not they're either bringing up an FCS school or letting Idaho be a FB affiliate.

SBC membership sits at FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, ULM, and non-FB UALR. GA St, GA Southern, and App St join as full members. ODU and Charlotte start FBS programs that are SBC fb affiliats but keep the rest of their sports in the A-10 and CAA.

What needs to happen is UTEP and NMSU get admitted to the MWC. The SBC and CUSA exchange schools for more regionally balanced conferences.

These are all sports conferences. Non-football schools move to another conference.

SBC

UTSA, Texas State, Rice, Louisiana, S. Miss, Troy
N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State, Middle Tennessee, WKU, UAB

The remaining schools are in CUSA.

CUSA

Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, App State, Coastal Carolina, add Liberty
GA State, GA Southern, FIU, FAU, S. Alabama, ULM

Why would I want to change the status quo and STILL end up in a different conference than by far the closest G5 to us?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Because all of your conference members would be on the East coast, except ULM and USA. Exclude them if you want. This is a far better geographical and rivalry setup for GA State and all the schools in this CUSA configuration. The same is true for the reconfigured SBC.

If if it does not have UAB I'll pass..

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(03-06-2019 02:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How can we bring up some FCS schools to help with the location issues?

Chattanooga could actually renew rivalry games with former SoCon schools.

Missouri State could kindle a rivalry game with Arkansas State.

Jacksonville State and Tennessee State are strong against P5 schools and renew rivalry games with former OVC,

James Madison, Delaware, Richmond, Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFA, N. Iowa, Jackson State, UCA and McNeese State all could fill holes as well.

The key word is location. C-USA for both east and west are spread apart. SBC is also spread apart in the west. You really need a bridge towards UTEP which really none of the schools would help. Marshall and ODU are off to themselves. The Florida twins are off by their selves. You need more schools than what we have between the two conferences.

Sorry guys. David was absent on the day Dr. Tyler discussed the Law of Diminishing Returns. Although, I am a fan of the Missouri State to the SBC idea.

(03-06-2019 03:10 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The mess that is CUSA does not need to add extra mouths to feed regardless of the institutions location.

I disagree here. The per team television and revenue sharing is already pretty minimal.

My solution has always been add 2, split into 8 team divisions east-west, and have very little cross-divisional play until the league championship.

Start by asking UAB if they want to play east or west. If they stay west, then each side picks one new member. If they go east, then west adds 2.

New Mexico State would certainly apply. I think that Texas State and Louisiana might, too.

Problem solved.

East: Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Marshall, Middle Tennessee, Old Dominion, UAB, Western Kentucky.

West: Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, North Texas, Rice, Southern Mississippi, UTEP, UTSA.

(03-06-2019 03:10 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The mess that is CUSA does not need to add extra mouths to feed regardless of the institutions location.

Its the same number of schools, so no extra mouths to feed.

Looks like my mistake is in trying to accommodate all schools instead of just outlining the conference I would like to see, fitting the right schools with the right geographical area. It is important to have the right schools in reasonable distance so fans can travel, thereby increasing fan interest, increasing attendance, and creating rivalries. Kind of hard to create a rivalry between UTEP and Marshall. And, with understanding that some schools might prefer to be in an Eastern based vs. Western based conference, my actual preferred conference would be a Western based conference.

While UTEP and NMSU belong in the MWC, if that conference will not expand, add them to the SWC for a 10 team conference.

SWC

UTEP, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, Louisiana, S. Miss, N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State

Again, it is only my preference, doesn't mean the other schools agree with this configuration.

(03-05-2019 09:29 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Big East/AAC taken all 7 C-USA schools that joined that league all at once you probably end up with a regional C-USA and SBC:

Marshall looks around at UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB and says screw it, we're joining the MAC.

The 4 remaining schools make some phone calls to WAC schools, who too are facing conference instability. NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech all jump ship bringing C-USA membership to 8.

C-USA then lures UNT, Ark St, and ULL over. UTA is told they can be #12 if they bring back football, if not they're either bringing up an FCS school or letting Idaho be a FB affiliate.

SBC membership sits at FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, ULM, and non-FB UALR. GA St, GA Southern, and App St join as full members. ODU and Charlotte start FBS programs that are SBC fb affiliats but keep the rest of their sports in the A-10 and CAA.

Didn't Marshall burn some bridges in leaving the MAC for the second time?

I think there was but if a school that's better than most of your members wants to join your conference do you really tell them no?

(03-06-2019 05:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 09:29 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Big East/AAC taken all 7 C-USA schools that joined that league all at once you probably end up with a regional C-USA and SBC:

Marshall looks around at UTEP, Rice, USM, and UAB and says screw it, we're joining the MAC.

The 4 remaining schools make some phone calls to WAC schools, who too are facing conference instability. NMSU, Texas St, UTSA, and LA Tech all jump ship bringing C-USA membership to 8.

C-USA then lures UNT, Ark St, and ULL over. UTA is told they can be #12 if they bring back football, if not they're either bringing up an FCS school or letting Idaho be a FB affiliate.

SBC membership sits at FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, MTSU, WKU, ULM, and non-FB UALR. GA St, GA Southern, and App St join as full members. ODU and Charlotte start FBS programs that are SBC fb affiliats but keep the rest of their sports in the A-10 and CAA.

Didn't Marshall burn some bridges in leaving the MAC for the second time?

I think there was but if a school that's better than most of your members wants to join your conference do you really tell them no?

In this scenario, I see Marshall as more likely to defect to the Sun Belt. Travel is better than in CUSA and they still have access to Southern recruiting grounds (Florida in particular).

OMG. FBS does NOT NEED ANY NEW MEMBERS. 130 is already big enough! Let the brand names spread a little.

We do NOT need to pull up any more FCS members.

(03-06-2019 04:37 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 02:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How can we bring up some FCS schools to help with the location issues?

Chattanooga could actually renew rivalry games with former SoCon schools.

Missouri State could kindle a rivalry game with Arkansas State.

Jacksonville State and Tennessee State are strong against P5 schools and renew rivalry games with former OVC,

James Madison, Delaware, Richmond, Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFA, N. Iowa, Jackson State, UCA and McNeese State all could fill holes as well.

The key word is location. C-USA for both east and west are spread apart. SBC is also spread apart in the west. You really need a bridge towards UTEP which really none of the schools would help. Marshall and ODU are off to themselves. The Florida twins are off by their selves. You need more schools than what we have between the two conferences.

Although, I am a fan of the Missouri State to the SBC idea.

I wish we would have made the move before all the additions to the east SBC schools were added. The SBC before the last realignment would have been perfect. But the MVC at the same time was perfect fit at the time as well.

The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

(03-06-2019 10:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 06:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 06:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 09:55 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 08:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  No conference is going to agree to cooperate. Period full stop.

Oddly the "short sighted" in your opinion, eastern schools to make the noise about it happen to be the programs with the larger budgets.

Old Dominion has probably been the loudest to beat that drum and contrary to Joe's assertions we do just fine scheduling OOC. We rarely leave VA or NC for either basketball or football OOC and get good opponents but for some reason have to travel to West Texas and Louisiana for conference games. Baseball, basketball, everything. Not that we don't have the money but we'd rather spend it on something else and our fans really don't care about those Western teams. So yeah our admin and most of our fans would gladly trade the Texas schools for the SB's Georgia schools, App St and JMU. But nothing's going to happen for a few years so we'll abide. But we're not interested in more gimmicks or alliances. It's bad enough our conference basketball tournament resembles a high school volleyball tournament with a curtain separating the courts. So yeah, we'll run from that Texas "leadership" as soon as we get an opportunity. No offense to the schools there. Just why? Anybody making a conference from scratch would not have designed CUSA but when you're left with schools in West Texas, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Alabama & Eastern NC and need to fill in gaps I guess they did as best they could.

The reason is your leadership signed on to play in C-USA. No one forced ODU to join the conference, and no one is forcing ODU to stay either. Y'all know where the door is.

I'm sure we're exploring our options.

What Joe doesn’t understand is that’s how conference realignment happens. Change does not happen due to contentment. Change is driven by the schools who are unhappy.

Conference realignment is driven by money, and either C-USA or the Sun Belt can reconfigure in any meaningful way that will generate more money for their conferences.

The unhappy programs in C-USA do not have enough votes to change the conference's line-up. Sure ODU is exploring their options. Every G5 program is doing that. The truth is ODU does not have any good options right now. Maybe they could talk the Sun Belt or MAC into an invitation, but it wouldn't add any money to their coffers, and ODU won't generate extra money for the teams of those conferences either.

(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.

(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.

The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

(03-06-2019 09:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.

The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

I don't think there's a football fan alive that dreams of a NDSU vs SJSU game.


Adding more bowls doesn't mean extra money for the G5. Sun Belt is setup in a way that has revenue sharing, but that doesn't mean any bowl game could make up that guaranteed loss in CFP payout. Adding a MoSt and another less exciting team to App's schedule might draw only 18-20k fans to KBS. That wouldn't cut it. A team like Marshall, that probably will bring in 32k or more would be. I don't think any FCS team could cut the muster, since we all know JMU isn't an option.

(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 10:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 06:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 06:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 09:55 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Old Dominion has probably been the loudest to beat that drum and contrary to Joe's assertions we do just fine scheduling OOC. We rarely leave VA or NC for either basketball or football OOC and get good opponents but for some reason have to travel to West Texas and Louisiana for conference games. Baseball, basketball, everything. Not that we don't have the money but we'd rather spend it on something else and our fans really don't care about those Western teams. So yeah our admin and most of our fans would gladly trade the Texas schools for the SB's Georgia schools, App St and JMU. But nothing's going to happen for a few years so we'll abide. But we're not interested in more gimmicks or alliances. It's bad enough our conference basketball tournament resembles a high school volleyball tournament with a curtain separating the courts. So yeah, we'll run from that Texas "leadership" as soon as we get an opportunity. No offense to the schools there. Just why? Anybody making a conference from scratch would not have designed CUSA but when you're left with schools in West Texas, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Alabama & Eastern NC and need to fill in gaps I guess they did as best they could.

The reason is your leadership signed on to play in C-USA. No one forced ODU to join the conference, and no one is forcing ODU to stay either. Y'all know where the door is.

I'm sure we're exploring our options.

What Joe doesn’t understand is that’s how conference realignment happens. Change does not happen due to contentment. Change is driven by the schools who are unhappy.

Conference realignment is driven by money, and either C-USA or the Sun Belt can reconfigure in any meaningful way that will generate more money for their conferences.

The unhappy programs in C-USA do not have enough votes to change the conference's line-up. Sure ODU is exploring their options. Every G5 program is doing that. The truth is ODU does not have any good options right now. Maybe they could talk the Sun Belt or MAC into an invitation, but it wouldn't add any money to their coffers, and ODU won't generate extra money for the teams of those conferences either.

Again---unhappy programs can change the line up without a vote. CUSA knows that better than anyone other than maybe the WAC. All it really takes is like minded programs that believe they would be better off in a smaller more compact conference. And to be clear---Im not suggesting that will happen anytime soon---Im just saying all it takes is for the right leadership to be in place at a few key schools and the dominoes will fall in place---with or without the cooperation of the others. It only took 5 of 16 "votes" to essentially cripple the WAC and create the MW. Frankly, the way N Texas is investing in its athletic department I wouldnt be surprised if they and several other schools that are investing heavily are one day interested in creating a more compact conference that only contains the more robust athletic departments in CUSA---with perhaps one or 2 worthy nearby SB schools.

(03-06-2019 07:21 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 04:37 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(03-06-2019 02:54 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How can we bring up some FCS schools to help with the location issues?

Chattanooga could actually renew rivalry games with former SoCon schools.

Missouri State could kindle a rivalry game with Arkansas State.

Jacksonville State and Tennessee State are strong against P5 schools and renew rivalry games with former OVC,

James Madison, Delaware, Richmond, Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFA, N. Iowa, Jackson State, UCA and McNeese State all could fill holes as well.

The key word is location. C-USA for both east and west are spread apart. SBC is also spread apart in the west. You really need a bridge towards UTEP which really none of the schools would help. Marshall and ODU are off to themselves. The Florida twins are off by their selves. You need more schools than what we have between the two conferences.

Although, I am a fan of the Missouri State to the SBC idea.

I wish we would have made the move before all the additions to the east SBC schools were added. The SBC before the last realignment would have been perfect. But the MVC at the same time was perfect fit at the time as well.

What I think would have changed things and which I will get a thread going about at some point is what if CUSA 2.0 instead of adding Rice and Marshall picked up 6 WAC schools to go to 16?

CUSA would have Boise St for its first 2 Fiesta Bowls and perhaps a much more expansive TV deal. They get involved with fewer newbie callups later down the line which leads to the SBC staying intact.