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Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #221
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-06-2019 09:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.



The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

There's no way you seriously believe that. We barely get a few 100k viewers when we're on TV and even less people care about FCS teams....
03-07-2019 10:58 AM
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HoustonCajun Offline
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Post: #222
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-06-2019 04:46 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 03:10 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The mess that is CUSA does not need to add extra mouths to feed regardless of the institutions location.

I disagree here. The per team television and revenue sharing is already pretty minimal.

My solution has always been add 2, split into 8 team divisions east-west, and have very little cross-divisional play until the league championship.

Start by asking UAB if they want to play east or west. If they stay west, then each side picks one new member. If they go east, then west adds 2.

New Mexico State would certainly apply. I think that Texas State and Louisiana might, too.

Problem solved.

East: Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Marshall, Middle Tennessee, Old Dominion, UAB, Western Kentucky.

West: Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, North Texas, Rice, Southern Mississippi, UTEP, UTSA.

Not what I proposed, but I like this setup.
03-07-2019 12:03 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #223
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 10:58 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 09:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.



The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

There's no way you seriously believe that. We barely get a few 100k viewers when we're on TV and even less people care about FCS teams....


North Dakota State, Montana, James Madison and Jacksonville State all got 1 million viewers when they were shown on ESPN. Even Chattanooga and Tennessee State got close to that when they played SEC teams on the SEC Network which both teams are top FCS teams. I think it depends if the people want to see winning teams than a losing team. Texas State needs to step up their game to get people to watch them.
Even Northern Iowa got over 500K viewers when they were winning and played Iowa and Iowa State. All those teams FCS teams I mentioned helped the P5 schools with their SoS. Texas State could lose to those teams.
03-07-2019 12:24 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #224
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 12:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-07-2019 10:58 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 09:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The only FCS team I'd be okay joining the Sun Belt would be Missouri State, IF they were added with either Marshall or USM. I would have said JMU, but they're way too content to be in FCS.

I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.



The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

There's no way you seriously believe that. We barely get a few 100k viewers when we're on TV and even less people care about FCS teams....


North Dakota State, Montana, James Madison and Jacksonville State all got 1 million viewers when they were shown on ESPN. Even Chattanooga and Tennessee State got close to that when they played SEC teams on the SEC Network which both teams are top FCS teams. I think it depends if the people want to see winning teams than a losing team. Texas State needs to step up their game to get people to watch them.
Even Northern Iowa got over 500K viewers when they were winning and played Iowa and Iowa State. All those teams FCS teams I mentioned helped the P5 schools with their SoS. Texas State could lose to those teams.

Of course they had high viewership. It was because of the fans of those P5 teams that they were playing and not because of the FCS team. What are the viewership numbers when a FCS team plays a G5 team, which is who the FCS team will be playing if they move to a G5-FBS conference.
03-07-2019 01:00 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #225
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(02-09-2019 04:04 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Should the Sun Belt Conference & Conference USA form a partnership to help both leagues with travel and more regional rivalries? I think both leagues are far off from where the AAC or even MWC is in terms of strength in basketball and football. Would this sort of alliance help both leagues?

Southwestern Conference (10 Teams) formerly Sun Belt Conference
UTEP
UTSA
Texas State
Rice
North Texas
Arkansas State
Louisiana Tech
UL-Monroe
Louisiana
New Mexico State
UT-Arlington (basketball/other sports)
Little Rock (basketball/other sports)

Football Championship Game played at Toyota Stadium in Frisco, Alamodome in San Antonio, or Superdome in New Orleans. Basketball Tournament played Ford Center at the Star in Dallas, HEB Center at Cedar Park, AT&T Center in San Antonio, or Lakefront Arena in New Orleans.

Conference USA (16 teams)
Sun Belt Division - 8 teams
Southern Miss.
South Alabama
UAB
Troy
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
FAU
FIU
Appalachian Division - 8 teams
Middle Tennessee State
Western Kentucky
Coastal Carolina
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Marshall
Liberty
Old Dominion

Conference USA stays at 8 games with a 8 team divisional setup, the highest seed is rewarded with the championship game instead of a neutral site. Basketball Tournament could be played at Legacy Arena in Birmingham, Bojangles' Coliseum in Charlotte, or a neutral site in Florida could be options.

I think it's weird that it's never a fan of one of the conference teams that come up with this crap. One one thread, a Utah fan is putting together a schedule for the Sun Belt and CUSA. On another, a Tulane fan is put together a PAC-12 and MAC scheduling alliance. Everyone seems to want to play matchmaker, just not with their own conference.
03-07-2019 01:08 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
Why does Liberty keep coming up in a Sun Belt/CUSA reshuffle? The presidents of both leagues have already said no several times. They will never align themselves with Jerry Falwell Jr. JMU will be invited up before Liberty is added to a conference.
03-07-2019 01:57 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
Yep.

Even a realignment would not include them. Just won't happen.
03-07-2019 02:23 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
It is the same with New Mexico State and Idaho. Nobody wanted them either. The teams I mentioned would get invited first from FCS before Liberty, New Mexico State and Idaho.
03-07-2019 03:58 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
New Mexico State would get an invite as a FB only member before bringing up a full member team from FCS.
03-07-2019 04:02 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 12:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:28 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 10:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-05-2019 06:41 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-05-2019 06:16 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  The reason is your leadership signed on to play in C-USA. No one forced ODU to join the conference, and no one is forcing ODU to stay either. Y'all know where the door is.

I'm sure we're exploring our options.

What Joe doesn’t understand is that’s how conference realignment happens. Change does not happen due to contentment. Change is driven by the schools who are unhappy.

Conference realignment is driven by money, and either C-USA or the Sun Belt can reconfigure in any meaningful way that will generate more money for their conferences.

The unhappy programs in C-USA do not have enough votes to change the conference's line-up. Sure ODU is exploring their options. Every G5 program is doing that. The truth is ODU does not have any good options right now. Maybe they could talk the Sun Belt or MAC into an invitation, but it wouldn't add any money to their coffers, and ODU won't generate extra money for the teams of those conferences either.

Again---unhappy programs can change the line up without a vote. CUSA knows that better than anyone other than maybe the WAC. All it really takes is like minded programs that believe they would be better off in a smaller more compact conference. And to be clear---Im not suggesting that will happen anytime soon---Im just saying all it takes is for the right leadership to be in place at a few key schools and the dominoes will fall in place---with or without the cooperation of the others. It only took 5 of 16 "votes" to essentially cripple the WAC and create the MW. Frankly, the way N Texas is investing in its athletic department I wouldnt be surprised if they and several other schools that are investing heavily are one day interested in creating a more compact conference that only contains the more robust athletic departments in CUSA---with perhaps one or 2 worthy nearby SB schools.

C-USA is a conference full of programs with varying degrees of commitment. There are not enough with the right combination of funding and fan support to reform into something better. So I suspect over the next few season, you may see the same three or four teams competing for the C-USA title.
03-07-2019 08:34 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #231
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
I'd be curious to see if you divided the C-USA and SBC membership into two conferences with the top 12 athletic budgets in one league what that'd look like.
03-07-2019 08:48 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #232
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 08:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'd be curious to see if you divided the C-USA and SBC membership into two conferences with the top 12 athletic budgets in one league what that'd look like.

You are getting to the position of those who are opposed to this merger talk. Both conferences have some programs that appear underfunded and underachieving. These are the programs that need to quietly fold their tents before any merger. I would rather stick with the devil I know rather than be surprised by a new struggling conference member.
03-08-2019 06:35 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
Everyone's gonna wait and see what happens to the AAC and higher conferences if there's more shuffling in a few years before realignment between the Sun Belt and CUSA happens. The situation is not that dire.
03-08-2019 08:00 AM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-08-2019 08:00 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Everyone's gonna wait and see what happens to the AAC and higher conferences if there's more shuffling in a few years before realignment between the Sun Belt and CUSA happens. The situation is not that dire.

Changes in MWC and MAC membership could also impact C-USA and the Sunbelt. If the MAC had an opening or two, I think some C-USA/Sunbelt programs may have interest. Similarly, if the MWC decides to expand into the central time zone, I think they may find several candidates currently in C-USA/Sunbelt.
03-08-2019 08:17 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 03:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  It is the same with New Mexico State and Idaho. Nobody wanted them either. The teams I mentioned would get invited first from FCS before Liberty, New Mexico State and Idaho.
Narrator: They wouldn't...

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03-08-2019 08:31 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #236
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-08-2019 08:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(03-08-2019 08:00 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Everyone's gonna wait and see what happens to the AAC and higher conferences if there's more shuffling in a few years before realignment between the Sun Belt and CUSA happens. The situation is not that dire.

Changes in MWC and MAC membership could also impact C-USA and the Sunbelt. If the MAC had an opening or two, I think some C-USA/Sunbelt programs may have interest. Similarly, if the MWC decides to expand into the central time zone, I think they may find several candidates currently in C-USA/Sunbelt.

MWC definitely, if they take from CUSA I hope it's an even number so we don't have to backfill. I'm not sure if anyone would have interest in moving to the MAC, it'd be WKU and Marshall if anyone. IDK. I prefer current CUSA over MAC for ODU for sure. I doubt either of these moves would create wholesale reshuffling though. If the top teams leave the Big12 and they in turn plunder the AAC it could.
03-08-2019 09:15 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #237
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 01:00 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(03-07-2019 12:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-07-2019 10:58 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 09:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  I'd like to add an amendment to that; that the only way I'd be okay with adding any school would be if the CFP payout was expanded from 10 teams at $1 mill each to 12 teams at $1 mill each. Unless that team is Marshall. Marshall is the only team that could drive App fans to make up that extra $270k lost from expansion in ticket sales.



The way you add more bowl games would also increase the tv money contracts for CFP. Adding more FCS schools could help. Could we restart some FBS conferences? I think people would love to see a 13-0 North Dakota State over a 5-7 San Jose State. Chattanooga right now wishes they moved up now after seeing both of their rivals dominated SBC in football.

There's no way you seriously believe that. We barely get a few 100k viewers when we're on TV and even less people care about FCS teams....


North Dakota State, Montana, James Madison and Jacksonville State all got 1 million viewers when they were shown on ESPN. Even Chattanooga and Tennessee State got close to that when they played SEC teams on the SEC Network which both teams are top FCS teams. I think it depends if the people want to see winning teams than a losing team. Texas State needs to step up their game to get people to watch them.
Even Northern Iowa got over 500K viewers when they were winning and played Iowa and Iowa State. All those teams FCS teams I mentioned helped the P5 schools with their SoS. Texas State could lose to those teams.

Of course they had high viewership. It was because of the fans of those P5 teams that they were playing and not because of the FCS team. What are the viewership numbers when a FCS team plays a G5 team, which is who the FCS team will be playing if they move to a G5-FBS conference.

Exactly this, glad I didn't have to type it out myself.

In response to David, it's hard to really gauge our viewership when we're usually on ESPNU or News, but looking at Week 1 in 2015 our game had 546k viewers on ESPNNews where the 2 FCS vs P5 games had 165k and 97k.

Edit: From a quick glance it looks like we had the 3rd highest rated game on ESPNNews that season.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2019 11:33 AM by Bobcat2013.)
03-08-2019 11:31 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
North Dakota State vs Montana 1 Million viewers
North Dakota State vs Jacksonville State 1 Million viewers
North Dakota State vs James Madison 1 Million viewers

North Dakota State could take on a team like Boise State or UCF and could still get more than 1 million viewers. NDSU plays the tough FCS schools with winning records and still out draw viewers than schools like Texas State or other FBS losers.
03-08-2019 02:41 PM
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HoustonCajun Offline
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Post: #239
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-07-2019 04:02 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  New Mexico State would get an invite as a FB only member before bringing up a full member team from FCS.

I would make it an all sports conference, so UALR and UTA would be out. I would prefer NMSU to them for all sports. And, no more FCS move ups. We have enough quality teams to reorganize both conferences.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2019 03:40 PM by HoustonCajun.)
03-08-2019 03:38 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #240
RE: Should the Sun Belt & C-USA form an alliance or partnership to help both leagues?
(03-08-2019 02:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  North Dakota State vs Montana 1 Million viewers
North Dakota State vs Jacksonville State 1 Million viewers
North Dakota State vs James Madison 1 Million viewers

North Dakota State could take on a team like Boise State or UCF and could still get more than 1 million viewers. NDSU plays the tough FCS schools with winning records and still out draw viewers than schools like Texas State or other FBS losers.

Yea they could, because people want to watch Boise and UCF.

Also what channel were those games on? I'd bet ESPN or ESPN2. That makes a huge difference since more people have them. Also you're cherry picking the outlier of all FCS outliers, what about the TV ratings of a game between UIW and ACU?
03-08-2019 03:39 PM
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