I can't see several of these schools being able to freely leave their in state companion in the lurch as long as the Pac-12 and Big-12 remain viable power conference, you would have legal fights bogging down the universities in Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Kansas, Oklahoma, and possibly Texas. If it got to a point where the elites of both conferences were accepting a union of sorts between the two it would be more likely that you ended up with a SWC/Big 8 style merger where one conference absorbs multiple schools of the other conference simultaneously i.e. Pac-12 sends out invites to 6-8 Big-12 schools or the Big-12 gives Baylor the boot (would become a non negotiable demand from the Cal schools) and invites somewhere between 7-10 of the Pac-12 schools depending on if West Virginia decided they wanted to stick around with a more western expanded conference.

(03-02-2019 05:04 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Unlike the Oregon and Washington schools where the schools in Corvallis and Pullman would be left behind, it’s really hard to decide which Arizona school would be chosen. Arizona has the academics, Arizona State has the location and the better football program.

Arizona, ASU, and Utah are always in consecutive order on ARWU rankings. There really is not much to the perceived academic gap. There are a lot more PAC alumni in the Phoenix metro than in Tucson, and Phoenix is also way easier for travel. ASU-Utah is also becoming the rivalry that Utah-Colorado was supposed to be.

But honestly, I wouldn’t care if we played Colorado the last game of the season every year with both of us hoping to get our first conference win if it meant college football could be rebalanced with a strong western conference. Only condition would be acquiring the WAC name.

The WAC
East: A&M, UT, OU, Ark, Mizzou, KU, Neb, CU.
West: UW, UO, Cal, Furd, USC, UCLA, ASU, UU.

B1G refills with UVA, UNC, Duke.
SEC refills with VT, NCST, FSU, Miami, Clemson.
ACC backfills with WVU and AAC schools.
PAC and BigXII merge and fill with MWC schools.

Then there’s a 75-80 school P5 breakaway.

(03-02-2019 02:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Not that it'll ever happen, but here's how I'd do a "Big Pac" merger. There are 16 teams in a divisionless slate. Football conference schedule is 9 games: 3 protected opponents + half the other 12 opponents, alternating every 2 years. Every non-CA school gets to play in California once a year.

For basketball, the 3 protected opponents are played twice (6 games) and the other 12 teams once for an 18-game schedule.

Protected opponents

Code:

ARIZONA         Arizona State   Colorado        Oregon          
ARIZONA STATE   Arizona         Washington      Oklahoma State  
CALIFORNIA      Stanford        UCLA            USC            
COLORADO        Utah            Arizona         Kansas          
KANSAS          Texas Tech      Oklahoma State  Colorado        
OKLAHOMA        Oklahoma State  Texas           TCU            
OKLAHOMA STATE  Oklahoma        Kansas          Arizona State  
OREGON          Washington      Utah            Arizona        
STANFORD        California      USC             UCLA            
TCU             Texas           Texas Tech      Oklahoma        
TEXAS           TCU             Oklahoma        Texas Tech      
TEXAS TECH      Kansas          TCU             Texas          
UCLA            USC             California      Stanford        
USC             UCLA            Stanford        California      
UTAH            Colorado        Oregon          Washington      
WASHINGTON      Oregon          Arizona State   Utah

And if you want an even more inclusive Big Pac, here's the Pac-12 + Big 12 - Baylor - WVU:


Football schedule is 9 games, with 4 protected opponents (listed above) and 5 rotating, allowing a full conference playthrough in 3 years.

(03-02-2019 08:08 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 05:04 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Unlike the Oregon and Washington schools where the schools in Corvallis and Pullman would be left behind, it’s really hard to decide which Arizona school would be chosen. Arizona has the academics, Arizona State has the location and the better football program.

Arizona, ASU, and Utah are always in consecutive order on ARWU rankings. There really is not much to the perceived academic gap. There are a lot more PAC alumni in the Phoenix metro than in Tucson, and Phoenix is also way easier for travel. ASU-Utah is also becoming the rivalry that Utah-Colorado was supposed to be.

But honestly, I wouldn’t care if we played Colorado the last game of the season every year with both of us hoping to get our first conference win if it meant college football could be rebalanced with a strong western conference. Only condition would be acquiring the WAC name.

The WAC
East: A&M, UT, OU, Ark, Mizzou, KU, Neb, CU.
West: UW, UO, Cal, Furd, USC, UCLA, ASU, UU.

B1G refills with UVA, UNC, Duke.
SEC refills with VT, NCST, FSU, Miami, Clemson.
ACC backfills with WVU and AAC schools.
PAC and BigXII merge and fill with MWC schools.

Then there’s a 75-80 school P5 breakaway.

So I wanted to see this out...

PAC
West: Washington, Oregon, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East: Arizona*, Arizona St, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*I like Utah but I think the get left out for the other Arizona school

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech*
*The conference chooses to not renew with Rutgers

SEC
West: LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Miami, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

ACC
South: SMU, Tulane, Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina
North: Wake Forest, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Connecticut

XVI
West: Washington St, Oregon St, San Diego St, UNLV*, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Colorado St
East: New Mexico*, Texas Tech, Houston, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St
*Considered Fresno St and Tulsa instead

IND: Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force

(03-03-2019 12:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  *The conference chooses to not renew with Rutgers

Rutgers isn't in the Big Ten on a contract basis.

(03-03-2019 12:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 08:08 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 05:04 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Unlike the Oregon and Washington schools where the schools in Corvallis and Pullman would be left behind, it’s really hard to decide which Arizona school would be chosen. Arizona has the academics, Arizona State has the location and the better football program.

Arizona, ASU, and Utah are always in consecutive order on ARWU rankings. There really is not much to the perceived academic gap. There are a lot more PAC alumni in the Phoenix metro than in Tucson, and Phoenix is also way easier for travel. ASU-Utah is also becoming the rivalry that Utah-Colorado was supposed to be.

But honestly, I wouldn’t care if we played Colorado the last game of the season every year with both of us hoping to get our first conference win if it meant college football could be rebalanced with a strong western conference. Only condition would be acquiring the WAC name.

The WAC
East: A&M, UT, OU, Ark, Mizzou, KU, Neb, CU.
West: UW, UO, Cal, Furd, USC, UCLA, ASU, UU.

B1G refills with UVA, UNC, Duke.
SEC refills with VT, NCST, FSU, Miami, Clemson.
ACC backfills with WVU and AAC schools.
PAC and BigXII merge and fill with MWC schools.

Then there’s a 75-80 school P5 breakaway.

So I wanted to see this out...

PAC
West: Washington, Oregon, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East: Arizona*, Arizona St, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*I like Utah but I think the get left out for the other Arizona school

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech*
*The conference chooses to not renew with Rutgers

SEC
West: LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Miami, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

ACC
South: SMU, Tulane, Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina
North: Wake Forest, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Connecticut

XVI
West: Washington St, Oregon St, San Diego St, UNLV*, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Colorado St
East: New Mexico*, Texas Tech, Houston, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St
*Considered Fresno St and Tulsa instead

IND: Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force

Utah can have our spot

A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/college...cument.pdf

Quote:I CAN ASSURE EVERYONE THAT THE LEADERS OF ISU, KU, KSU, MISSOURI, OSU, AND BAYLOR
WERE PRAYING THAT UT WOULD STICK WITH THE BIG 12. ON JUNE 11 2010, THE LEAD
COLUMNIST OF THE KANSAS CITY STAR, SAM MELLINGER, WROTE A COLUMN FOR THE AGES:
"IF TODAY IS WHEN THE BIG 12 ENDS, THIS IS SOMETHING BIGGER, SOMEWHAT SCARIER,
SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT. IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE KANSAS CITY'S COLLEGE SPORTS SCENE
WILL NEVER FULLY RECOVER . . . JUNE 11, 2010 COULD BE REMEMBERED AS OUR DARKEST
SPORTS HOUR."

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Utah can have our spot

Hey, that's familiar.

But at 16, it's not like the opposite division is much more than an acquaintance.
KU, Mizzou, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Colorado hardly seems like a cultural stretch.

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 12:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 08:08 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 05:04 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Unlike the Oregon and Washington schools where the schools in Corvallis and Pullman would be left behind, it’s really hard to decide which Arizona school would be chosen. Arizona has the academics, Arizona State has the location and the better football program.

Arizona, ASU, and Utah are always in consecutive order on ARWU rankings. There really is not much to the perceived academic gap. There are a lot more PAC alumni in the Phoenix metro than in Tucson, and Phoenix is also way easier for travel. ASU-Utah is also becoming the rivalry that Utah-Colorado was supposed to be.

But honestly, I wouldn’t care if we played Colorado the last game of the season every year with both of us hoping to get our first conference win if it meant college football could be rebalanced with a strong western conference. Only condition would be acquiring the WAC name.

The WAC
East: A&M, UT, OU, Ark, Mizzou, KU, Neb, CU.
West: UW, UO, Cal, Furd, USC, UCLA, ASU, UU.

B1G refills with UVA, UNC, Duke.
SEC refills with VT, NCST, FSU, Miami, Clemson.
ACC backfills with WVU and AAC schools.
PAC and BigXII merge and fill with MWC schools.

Then there’s a 75-80 school P5 breakaway.

So I wanted to see this out...

PAC
West: Washington, Oregon, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East: Arizona*, Arizona St, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*I like Utah but I think the get left out for the other Arizona school

B1G
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St
East: Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech*
*The conference chooses to not renew with Rutgers

SEC
West: LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Miami, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

ACC
South: SMU, Tulane, Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina
North: Wake Forest, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Connecticut

XVI
West: Washington St, Oregon St, San Diego St, UNLV*, Boise St, Utah, BYU, Colorado St
East: New Mexico*, Texas Tech, Houston, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St
*Considered Fresno St and Tulsa instead

IND: Notre Dame, Army, Navy, Air Force

Utah can have our spot

A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

Yep, it’s why I think Houston would be a wise addition. You can’t leave Houston to the SEC: Texas, Tech, TCU and Houston would be my choice of schools in a merger.

(03-02-2019 08:04 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  I can't see several of these schools being able to freely leave their in state companion in the lurch as long as the Pac-12 and Big-12 remain viable power conference, you would have legal fights bogging down the universities in Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Kansas, Oklahoma, and possibly Texas. If it got to a point where the elites of both conferences were accepting a union of sorts between the two it would be more likely that you ended up with a SWC/Big 8 style merger where one conference absorbs multiple schools of the other conference simultaneously i.e. Pac-12 sends out invites to 6-8 Big-12 schools or the Big-12 gives Baylor the boot (would become a non negotiable demand from the Cal schools) and invites somewhere between 7-10 of the Pac-12 schools depending on if West Virginia decided they wanted to stick around with a more western expanded conference.

When the money was small, that mattered more.

But Oklahoma and Kansas are looking at a difference in media revenue that could be as much as $500 Million over a decade in moving to the SEC/B1G or remaining in the B12. Same for Texas and your hypothetical Washington (UW would leave Wazzu behind, no remorse at all).

The days when a state legislature could tell the SEC or B1G they have to take the lesser school in their state are gone. What they can do is legislate the KU and K State, or OU and OK State have to play annually, much like Colorado did for decade plus. But enough fof the legislature, and of course the executive branch sees the dollar loss of making a demand that will be refused.

The SEC and the B1G don't need OU or KU. But KU and OU need the SEC and B1G. Everyone knows that. It's reality.

Once Texas A&M left and the game with Texas ended, the leverage of the Texas Statehouse vanished. They are the only State large enough to do anything, but like most really large states, they wont.

(02-28-2019 12:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-27-2019 09:29 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-27-2019 09:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-27-2019 09:08 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 11:55 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/26/f...-together/

The Big East proposed an alliance with the ACC. The ACC took whom they wanted from the Big East. The same will happen here. The Pac will expand with a few Big XII teams, the question is just who they will get?

Big 12 has more success, more revenue and better ratings. Much more likely it would go the other way.

But most likely neither.

And I got a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.

Well RU did a pretty good job selling a worthless bridge to the east to the Big 10!

Yeah all the school presidents sure are regretting all that extra money we brought to the table as well as the huge pool of potential students to tap into. But hey keep thinking the Big XII can poach the PAC.

(03-03-2019 02:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 12:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  *The conference chooses to not renew with Rutgers

Rutgers isn't in the Big Ten on a contract basis.

The stupid is strong on these boards.

(03-03-2019 05:23 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Utah can have our spot

Hey, that's familiar.

But at 16, it's not like the opposite division is much more than an acquaintance.
KU, Mizzou, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Colorado hardly seems like a cultural stretch.

Why doesn’t it?

Who on that list besides the one school in the entire NCAA we least want to want to share a conference with do we have real history or commonality in with?

The answer is Arkansas and they’re a current conference mate.

All the rest are a bunch of Midwest schools we don’t care about and have no history or common culture with.

It’s a big reason we never cared about the loveless marriage of convenience that was our previous home.

And yes, if you don’t see the difference between the culture of the South and the culture of the Midwest then there’s nothing more I can tell you

(03-03-2019 09:21 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 08:04 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  I can't see several of these schools being able to freely leave their in state companion in the lurch as long as the Pac-12 and Big-12 remain viable power conference, you would have legal fights bogging down the universities in Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Kansas, Oklahoma, and possibly Texas. If it got to a point where the elites of both conferences were accepting a union of sorts between the two it would be more likely that you ended up with a SWC/Big 8 style merger where one conference absorbs multiple schools of the other conference simultaneously i.e. Pac-12 sends out invites to 6-8 Big-12 schools or the Big-12 gives Baylor the boot (would become a non negotiable demand from the Cal schools) and invites somewhere between 7-10 of the Pac-12 schools depending on if West Virginia decided they wanted to stick around with a more western expanded conference.

When the money was small, that mattered more.

But Oklahoma and Kansas are looking at a difference in media revenue that could be as much as $500 Million over a decade in moving to the SEC/B1G or remaining in the B12. Same for Texas and your hypothetical Washington (UW would leave Wazzu behind, no remorse at all).

The days when a state legislature could tell the SEC or B1G they have to take the lesser school in their state are gone. What they can do is legislate the KU and K State, or OU and OK State have to play annually, much like Colorado did for decade plus. But enough fof the legislature, and of course the executive branch sees the dollar loss of making a demand that will be refused.

The SEC and the B1G don't need OU or KU. But KU and OU need the SEC and B1G. Everyone knows that. It's reality.

Once Texas A&M left and the game with Texas ended, the leverage of the Texas Statehouse vanished. They are the only State large enough to do anything, but like most really large states, they wont.

And why would the Texas legislature care. Baylor sort of cooked their own Goose and Houston probably gets in.

(03-03-2019 09:02 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

Were you able to attend No Sit Saturday for the big matchup vs Texas Tech?

Jamie Dixon needs you guys who root for TCU. Kinda sad that Tech fans occupied half the arena.

https://twitter.com/CoachDixon/status/11....121130%2F

Strange comments coming from a fan of a school in 1st place in the Big 12 who has 1 sellout this year at home. That's 1 sellout of a 15,000 seat arena with a school of 35,000. Yet their fans want to talk attendance smack.

The last time I heard the suggestion of such a "strategic alliance" was between the Big 8 and the SWC. That ended up with the formation of the B12 rather than an alliance. Both the P12 and B12 need to do something. I predict an outcome similar to the B12 formation.

(03-04-2019 11:35 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 09:02 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

Were you able to attend No Sit Saturday for the big matchup vs Texas Tech?

Jamie Dixon needs you guys who root for TCU. Kinda sad that Tech fans occupied half the arena.

https://twitter.com/CoachDixon/status/11....121130%2F

Strange comments coming from a fan of a school in 1st place in the Big 12 who has 1 sellout this year at home. That's 1 sellout of a 15,000 seat arena with a school of 35,000. Yet their fans want to talk attendance smack.

to be fair it is 3 sellouts and most likely 4 after tonight with Texas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80...tball_team

and a couple of others that were very close

also Tech was not expected to be nearly as good this year as last year with several key players leaving.....much less better this year

so fans were in wait and see mode and probably looking to next year (like aggy fans always are hahahaaha)

and yes that is on the fan base they should have shown up because of the improvement of last year....and really they did even in the early season, but it takes a big season or seasons to fill 15,000+ consistently

this last Texas game and the Big 12 tournament and the NCAAs and Texh's performance in that (barring meltdowns) will probably start next year off much better for Tech attendance wise especially earlier in the year

(03-04-2019 11:35 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 09:02 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

Were you able to attend No Sit Saturday for the big matchup vs Texas Tech?

Jamie Dixon needs you guys who root for TCU. Kinda sad that Tech fans occupied half the arena.

https://twitter.com/CoachDixon/status/11....121130%2F

Strange comments coming from a fan of a school in 1st place in the Big 12 who has 1 sellout this year at home. That's 1 sellout of a 15,000 seat arena with a school of 35,000. Yet their fans want to talk attendance smack.

As mentioned previously, Tech has sold out 3 Big 12 homes games and the UT game is reportedly sold out. Not bad for a non-basketball school in Texas.

I borrowed this from another Texas Tech fan. This only counts Big 12 conference home games.

Kansas 16300
Iowa St 14279
Texas Tech 13975
Texas 10917
West Virginia 10848
Kansas St 10785
Oklahoma 8795
Oklahoma St 7767
Baylor 7052
TCU 6686

Beard will kill it in Austin when he replaces Shaka. And yes he has reached out to them and the feeling is mutual.

(03-04-2019 06:34 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(03-04-2019 11:35 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 09:02 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 03:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  A&M has repeatedly said that while we respect the great academic and athletic tradition of the PAC, we have zero desire to be part of any western us/west coast conference as that is not culturally or historically who we are.

Were you able to attend No Sit Saturday for the big matchup vs Texas Tech?

Jamie Dixon needs you guys who root for TCU. Kinda sad that Tech fans occupied half the arena.

https://twitter.com/CoachDixon/status/11....121130%2F

Strange comments coming from a fan of a school in 1st place in the Big 12 who has 1 sellout this year at home. That's 1 sellout of a 15,000 seat arena with a school of 35,000. Yet their fans want to talk attendance smack.

to be fair it is 3 sellouts and most likely 4 after tonight with Texas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80...tball_team

and a couple of others that were very close

also Tech was not expected to be nearly as good this year as last year with several key players leaving.....much less better this year

so fans were in wait and see mode and probably looking to next year (like aggy fans always are hahahaaha)

and yes that is on the fan base they should have shown up because of the improvement of last year....and really they did even in the early season, but it takes a big season or seasons to fill 15,000+ consistently

this last Texas game and the Big 12 tournament and the NCAAs and Texh's performance in that (barring meltdowns) will probably start next year off much better for Tech attendance wise especially earlier in the year

Texas Tech was predicted to finish 7th and TCU was picked to finish 4th.

https://texastech.com/news/2018/10/19/me...-poll.aspx

2018-19 Big 12 Preseason Poll

Team (1st Place Votes) Points
1. Kansas (9)* 81
2. Kansas State
72

3. West Virginia 61
T4. TCU 54
Texas 54
6. Iowa State 41
7. Texas Tech 36
8. Oklahoma 21
9. Baylor 20
10. Oklahoma State 10