(01-24-2019 02:00 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  My conclusion is the schools are scared Murray - especially as they raise budget/recruiting from low major to upper midmajor - will runaway with the league effectively locking everyone else out.

It isn't the public members with a problem with Murray.

(01-24-2019 03:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 02:00 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  My conclusion is the schools are scared Murray - especially as they raise budget/recruiting from low major to upper midmajor - will runaway with the league effectively locking everyone else out.

Look at the names of the public schools in the MVC.

Indiana State
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois

Very respectable name brand in the Midwest.....then you have Murray State.

Murray St is not the Boise St of basketball. Murray is a very tiny town and school not an emerging market. They are an OVC school not an MVC school in profile.

What separates Murray State from Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, or Indiana State?

What separates Murray (KY) from Cedar Falls (IA), Carbondale (IL), or Terre Haute (IN)?

They fit right in.

(01-24-2019 03:34 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  With the way the NET rankings are set up Murray needs the MVC for recruiting less than ever. They are 44 right now in NET and the top MVC team is 131.

I don't see it as a good fit for both parties.

Murray doesn't need the MVC for recruiting churning out lottery picks as-is, but they need the MVC for seeding/exposure. Murray has had 2 NCAA runs end prematurely where they gave the national champ/national runnerup its closest game. Their seeds those 2 years were 13/14. MVC has won 10 straight 1st round games and has a track record of sending teams deep due to better seeding (and a defensive style better suited for March).

Note last year's MVC Final was the 6th highest rated, which CBS extended another 6 years. That exposure far outstrips anything in the OVC, which caps national tv appearances for each member (why you saw 2 320+ teams in Tenn St/Tenn Tech on espnu last week instead of a projected top 5 pick).

This is why Murray's President/AD campaigned so publicly, putting a full court press on social media, for the MVC with the risk of ending up with egg on their face.

(01-24-2019 12:41 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Belmont is in the perfect conference where everybody is 4 hours away from them and the majority of the schools are in Tennessee.

Exactly. Belmont is smart enough to realize that they are not likely to be in a consistent multi bid league, so they need to be in a bus league and spend as little on travel as possible.

More schools/conferences should think like that

This looks like a definite maybe, something we will think about perhaps situation. Nothing happening or likely to for awhile.

However assuming it is considered, Elgin is insistent on even numbers, which I think is a combination of laziness and lack of imagination. An 11th means creating a Monday/Tuesday game slot every week you sell as a TV game. You form one triangle a week and two sets of four. That is a league office not wanting to use scheduling software, preferring to do things by hand, so finds it difficult ("nightmare") to handle that level of complexity -- no wonder the league is suffering with that kind of outmoded "leadership."

But adding Belmont, Texas Arlington, Grand Canyon, Oakland or Denver along with Murray State would solve the odd number issue in most sports, although you lose the double round robin in Basketball. While Belmont is the most "desired" school it's probably a bad move. Belmont is a rather limited school (music focus) with a good coach, and that doesn't strike me as a long term bet -- think DePaul level of disappointment year after year but at MVC level. Rick Byrd is 65 and bringing Belmont in in 2 years you have a 67 year old coach who is likely retiring. I don't like that at all. So I'd look at resources and commitment, which pushes GCU and Arlington to the top. An air flight is often better than a long bus ride.

If they did add Murray State it would likely have implications for football. The MVC would no longer need the Summit schools (the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois) and could form their own internal conference. The Summit in turn would be forced to start football and find a 6th member (Dixie State comes to mind).

But frankly this doesn't sound like anything is likely to happen for another year.

The difference is the state. Kentucky is a solidly southern state.

Kentucky->SEC
Louisville->ACC
Western Ky->CUSA
Murray St->OVC

Everyone is playing in a predominantly southern conference.

(01-24-2019 04:19 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If they did add Murray State it would likely have implications for football. The MVC would no longer need the Summit schools (the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois) and could form their own internal conference. The Summit in turn would be forced to start football and find a 6th member (Dixie State comes to mind).

But frankly this doesn't sound like anything is likely to happen for another year.

The article was from Jan of 2018.

Discussed and put to bed.

(01-24-2019 04:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:19 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If they did add Murray State it would likely have implications for football. The MVC would no longer need the Summit schools (the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois) and could form their own internal conference. The Summit in turn would be forced to start football and find a 6th member (Dixie State comes to mind).

But frankly this doesn't sound like anything is likely to happen for another year.

The article was from Jan of 2018.

Discussed and put to bed.

Oh, I thought Jan 4, 2019 not 2018. My bad. This is dead dead then. Really nothing happening.

So why was this thread bumped back to life?

(01-24-2019 04:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 12:41 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Belmont is in the perfect conference where everybody is 4 hours away from them and the majority of the schools are in Tennessee.

Exactly. Belmont is smart enough to realize that they are not likely to be in a consistent multi bid league, so they need to be in a bus league and spend as little on travel as possible.

More schools/conferences should think like that

Well, it may also be whether a school prefers the company of peer institutions.

I don't know if it's as much feeling Belmont is a smaller fish in a bigger pond, but whether it has anything institutionally to gain being with a hodge-podge of public and private schools in the midwest. I mean, heck, they already had been approached by Horizon. There might be more to gain rubbing elbows with SoCon schools.

I agree, though, that there are benefits to the bus league conferences. Problem for either Murray or Belmont is, when you don't win the AQ, and you have decent numbers, the committee doesn't sympathize. Whereas, they might in the Valley?

(01-24-2019 04:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:19 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If they did add Murray State it would likely have implications for football. The MVC would no longer need the Summit schools (the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois) and could form their own internal conference. The Summit in turn would be forced to start football and find a 6th member (Dixie State comes to mind).

But frankly this doesn't sound like anything is likely to happen for another year.

The article was from Jan of 2018.

Discussed and put to bed.

I was wondering if anyone was going to notice. I recall when this article came out last year. It was discussed to death.

Speaking of the MVC, they have a guy at their fanboard who runs 100,000 simulations to predict the seedings for the conference tournament. He is predicting #1 Loyola, #2 DRAKE, #3 Valpo. Looks like the conference did well taking Loyola and Valpo. (I'm sorry I doubted.) Go Drake!

http://mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5194
B=Bradley, D=Drake, E=Evansville, Il=Illinois State, In=Indiana State, L=Loyola, M=Missouri State, N=Northern Iowa, S=Southern Illinois, V=Valpo


PS. I noticed the article was a year old, but they guys at MVCFans discuss expansion all the time. A thread/poll started last year is up to 66 pages.

(01-24-2019 04:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 04:19 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If they did add Murray State it would likely have implications for football. The MVC would no longer need the Summit schools (the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois) and could form their own internal conference. The Summit in turn would be forced to start football and find a 6th member (Dixie State comes to mind).

But frankly this doesn't sound like anything is likely to happen for another year.

The article was from Jan of 2018.

Discussed and put to bed.

Oh, I thought Jan 4, 2019 not 2018. My bad. This is dead dead then. Really nothing happening.

So why was this thread bumped back to life?

I do not think this article was posted before. There was another article that did not list schools like Grand Canyon U. or Denver. Nor a public school like UTA. GCU and Murray State could help the hoops. They could go to 14 adding Youngstown State and Belmont. You get an eastern block, and get MVC to 7 football school. Summit could grab Augustana, UMKC and football only Dixie State for 7 football teams.

Would Libscomb be an acceptable private school replacement to pair with Murray St if Belmont passed? They are getting better and the MVC would be an improvement in conference affiliation and provide slightly better travel than the A-Sun.

As for Murray St football they could easily be admitted into the MVFC as its 12 member.

(01-24-2019 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  As for Murray St football they could easily be admitted into the MVFC as its 12 member.

Even though the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) administers the Missouri Valley Football Conference (MVFC), the 2 are distinct. (The MVC also administers the Pioneer Football Conference that only has 2 MVC member- Drake and now Valpo.) The MVFC has 5 MVC members, 4 Summit members (soon 5 when North Dakota joins the MVFC in 2020), and 1 Horizon (which left the Summit). Getting North Dakota into the MVFC was not easy from what I read. It was suggested that the Summit had to apply a lot of pressure. Maybe because non-MVC schools will then have more votes than MVC schools?

With North Dakota joining in 2020, the MVFC will be at 11 members. Maybe that makes Murray more attractive as a 12th. But others aren't real sure.

Bottom line: I gather that the MVC has influence with the MVFC, but that they don't call the shots because of the other schools. There is chatter that the Summit could form their own football conference (say with the Univ of Northern Colo- who used to be in the d2 North Central Conf with 5 other Summit schools) which could cause the MVC football schools to look outside the MVC for affiliation if the MVFC collapses. I guess it's a tightrope that the MVC has to walk with the MVFC to keep everyone happy.

(01-24-2019 06:38 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  As for Murray St football they could easily be admitted into the MVFC as its 12 member.

Even though the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) administers the Missouri Valley Football Conference (MVFC), the 2 are distinct. (The MVC also administers the Pioneer Football Conference that only has 2 MVC member- Drake and now Valpo.) The MVFC has 5 MVC members, 4 Summit members (soon 5 when North Dakota joins the MVFC in 2020), and 1 Horizon (which left the Summit). Getting North Dakota into the MVFC was not easy from what I read. It was suggested that the Summit had to apply a lot of pressure. Maybe because non-MVC schools will then have more votes than MVC schools?

With North Dakota joining in 2020, the MVFC will be at 11 members. Maybe that makes Murray more attractive as a 12th. But others aren't real sure.

Bottom line: I gather that the MVC has influence with the MVFC, but that they don't call the shots because of the other schools. There is chatter that the Summit could form their own football conference (say with the Univ of Northern Colo- who used to be in the d2 North Central Conf with 5 other Summit schools) which could cause the MVC football schools to look outside the MVC for affiliation if the MVFC collapses. I guess it's a tightrope that the MVC has to walk with the MVFC to keep everyone happy.

The MVC faction of the MVFC did a huge favor to the Summit faction when they admitted UND. my guess is that the MVC schools will call in a favor to get Murray St in should Racer Olympic sports join the MVC.

Summit FB is a real threat and the MVC and Summit schools need to both understand that they are better together than on their own.

(01-24-2019 10:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:38 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 06:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  As for Murray St football they could easily be admitted into the MVFC as its 12 member.

Even though the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) administers the Missouri Valley Football Conference (MVFC), the 2 are distinct. (The MVC also administers the Pioneer Football Conference that only has 2 MVC member- Drake and now Valpo.) The MVFC has 5 MVC members, 4 Summit members (soon 5 when North Dakota joins the MVFC in 2020), and 1 Horizon (which left the Summit). Getting North Dakota into the MVFC was not easy from what I read. It was suggested that the Summit had to apply a lot of pressure. Maybe because non-MVC schools will then have more votes than MVC schools?

With North Dakota joining in 2020, the MVFC will be at 11 members. Maybe that makes Murray more attractive as a 12th. But others aren't real sure.

Bottom line: I gather that the MVC has influence with the MVFC, but that they don't call the shots because of the other schools. There is chatter that the Summit could form their own football conference (say with the Univ of Northern Colo- who used to be in the d2 North Central Conf with 5 other Summit schools) which could cause the MVC football schools to look outside the MVC for affiliation if the MVFC collapses. I guess it's a tightrope that the MVC has to walk with the MVFC to keep everyone happy.

The MVC faction of the MVFC did a huge favor to the Summit faction when they admitted UND. my guess is that the MVC schools will call in a favor to get Murray St in should Racer Olympic sports join the MVC.

Summit FB is a real threat and the MVC and Summit schools need to both understand that they are better together than on their own.

Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.

Big Sky might appreciate contracting their footprint and getting back to the 10/12 lineup

Makes a lot of sense for everyone

MVC has to wait on Dayton & St Lious
if they get in BE, then it's time to move on

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

Wayne State Michigan have been on and off talks with The Horizon to join. The problem would be their football. MVFC football members would love to have them in the conference.

Summit:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
N. Colorado
N. Iowa

MVFC:
Illinois State
Murray State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Wayne State Michigan

It closes up the gaps in the MVFC a lot. Wayne State's academics are R1 standing. West would be called Summit and East would be called MVC.

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

This would be nice and neat

The MVC takes Murray St and Detroit to satisfy the public/private divide and solidify the MVC side of the MVFC

The OVC takes Northern Alabama to fill the Murray State slot

The Horizon takes IPFW creating a round robin public school only Midwestern basketball league

The Summit takes UNC which gives them 9 and room to grow with Augustana as well as solidify the Summit side of MVFC

The Big Sky stands pat and 10/12

(01-25-2019 01:13 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

This would be nice and neat

The MVC takes Murray St and Detroit to satisfy the public/private divide and solidify the MVC side of the MVFC

The OVC takes Northern Alabama to fill the Murray State slot

The Horizon takes IPFW creating a round robin public school only Midwestern basketball league

The Summit takes UNC which gives them 9 and room to grow with Augustana as well as solidify the Summit side of MVFC

The Big Sky stands pat and 10/12

Horizon would take Wayne State to replace Detroit. They could take both schools. Big Sky could take Dixie State as a football only.