CSNbbs

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whats-next-on-mvc-expansion/

They are talking about adding the best basketball schools.

Murray State still on top of the list.

Others are Northern Kentucky, Belmont, Southeast Missouri State, Oakland, Milwaukee, South Dakota State, Denver, UTA and Grand Canyon U. This would be a blow to the WAC if GCU gets a MVC invite.

A rare case where someone’s too good to be added.

Murray State is the recognized clear obvious add but individual schools are spooked Murray will walk in and dominate the league. Between Loyola and Murray, the rest would effectively be shut out of NCAA access.

Besides Murray St., I saw two other programs that the MVC also seemed pretty high on: Belmont and Northern Kentucky. That being said, it appears that Murray St. is the front runner even if individual schools are concerned that Loyola & Murray St. would dominate the conference.

I think the MVC is in a down cycle right now and has to figure out how to advance itself internally first before expanding.

Afraid of Loyola dominating the conference? They had 1 good year. They have finished over .500 once in the Valley in 6 years. They are 12-8 this year. With Moser as a coach, I am not sure many in the Valley think Loyola is on a path for long term domination of the conference. If Loyola doesn't win Arch Madness, they won't get a NCAA bid this year.

As for Murray State, I think they would be a great add. I don't think they would dominate MVC any more so than they dominate OVC. Plus, I don't think anyone in the Valley fears having a successful program join them. Having a Wichita or Creighton or SIU, a few years back, is a good thing for a conference. It increases the prestige of the conference and draws fans when they are in town.

The Valley is a bit down this year, but they were hit hard by graduation and transfers. They will bounce back. They are always going to be somewhere between the 7th and 15th best conference. The schools have pretty good fan support and tend to get some of the better mid-major recruits.

From what I've read on the mvcfans.com message board, there are political implications.

There are currently five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State) and five private schools (Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Loyola, Valparaiso). In addition, the five public schools play FCS football in the MVFC, while the five private schools do not play scholarship football (Drake and Valpo play in the Pioneer League). This has been a delicate political balance in the league, even when Creighton and Wichita State were in it.

The rumor is that the private schools won't take Murray State without also taking Belmont. Scuttlebutt is that Belmont was approached by the MVC, but turned them down. So, based on this logic, it is questionable if Murray State will get into the MVC.

The fans want Murray State for sure. Murray State would be a great add for basketball. And, Murray State wants to be in the MVC. But, would they help the MVC become a multi-bid league again? Who knows.

Murray state and U of Detroit could work and keep the public/private balances. Mike Davis might build something. I’m surprised Belmont isn’t in the southern conference

Oakland was another team that was mentioned...

Another option.....

The FB schools hit the exit button. Grab a couple of basketball only schools along the way and join forces with certain FBS schools to create a humdinger of a Central Time Zone league. The River Valley Conference

VALLEY

Northern Iowa, Loyola, Illinois State, Valpo, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Saint Louis, Missouri State

RIVER

Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Marshall.

(01-24-2019 11:07 AM)johnintx Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've read on the mvcfans.com message board, there are political implications.

There are currently five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State) and five private schools (Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Loyola, Valparaiso). In addition, the five public schools play FCS football in the MVFC, while the five private schools do not play scholarship football (Drake and Valpo play in the Pioneer League). This has been a delicate political balance in the league, even when Creighton and Wichita State were in it.

The rumor is that the private schools won't take Murray State without also taking Belmont. Scuttlebutt is that Belmont was approached by the MVC, but turned them down. So, based on this logic, it is questionable if Murray State will get into the MVC.

The fans want Murray State for sure. Murray State would be a great add for basketball. And, Murray State wants to be in the MVC. But, would they help the MVC become a multi-bid league again? Who knows.

It wouldn't surprise me if expansion doesn't wind up seeing one or two of the public members leaving, because the private schools have been real pains about the backfills. From what floated out there, Valpo was a concession the public schools made for Murray State despite the vacancy being a public school. Private schools get Valpo, then STILL won't give Murray the vote.

Hearing Detroit in this? Cringeworthy, but totally a private bloc thing from those guys.

To hear that we're still there...maybe this is what does it for Mo State? They have to be tired of this ****.

As for Belmont...been wondering why they aren't already in SoCon. I wonder if CAA or A10 is possible?

(01-24-2019 11:07 AM)johnintx Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've read on the mvcfans.com message board, there are political implications.

There are currently five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State) and five private schools (Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Loyola, Valparaiso). In addition, the five public schools play FCS football in the MVFC, while the five private schools do not play scholarship football (Drake and Valpo play in the Pioneer League). This has been a delicate political balance in the league, even when Creighton and Wichita State were in it.

The rumor is that the private schools won't take Murray State without also taking Belmont. Scuttlebutt is that Belmont was approached by the MVC, but turned them down. So, based on this logic, it is questionable if Murray State will get into the MVC.

The fans want Murray State for sure. Murray State would be a great add for basketball. And, Murray State wants to be in the MVC. But, would they help the MVC become a multi-bid league again? Who knows.

This is the most accurate of all the posts in this thread so far for the most part. Belmont is a weird obsession by some, they really don't bring any value at all.

MVC expansion is simple there is no good #12 school unless SLU or Dayton comes in. Murray would be fine addition but they are not good enough to go to an even number that would screw up scheduling across multiple sports.

Personally I hate all the private schools in the Valley expect Drake and Bradley. Bradley is the reason we have Evansville, Loyola and Valpo in the league.

(01-24-2019 12:26 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2019 11:07 AM)johnintx Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've read on the mvcfans.com message board, there are political implications.

There are currently five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State) and five private schools (Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Loyola, Valparaiso). In addition, the five public schools play FCS football in the MVFC, while the five private schools do not play scholarship football (Drake and Valpo play in the Pioneer League). This has been a delicate political balance in the league, even when Creighton and Wichita State were in it.

The rumor is that the private schools won't take Murray State without also taking Belmont. Scuttlebutt is that Belmont was approached by the MVC, but turned them down. So, based on this logic, it is questionable if Murray State will get into the MVC.

The fans want Murray State for sure. Murray State would be a great add for basketball. And, Murray State wants to be in the MVC. But, would they help the MVC become a multi-bid league again? Who knows.

As for Belmont...been wondering why they aren't already in SoCon. I wonder if CAA or A10 is possible?

Belmont is in the perfect conference where everybody is 4 hours away from them and the majority of the schools are in Tennessee.

• I think Northern Kentucky would be a great option, they are up-and-coming and basically in Cincinnati which is easy to travel to. Although, they would be expanding the footprint east, away from Arch Madness.

• I'm not sure why 11 is a scheduling nightmare, it is actually perfect for basketball: 20 game league schedule and a perfect round robin. I wish the ACC was allowed to stay at 11 back in '03.

• Murray State is sort of a no-brainer at this point. They are close to St. Louis and have been performing consistently at a high level for a while now. If 12 is the goal: Murray State and NKU would be great additions.

If the Valley wants to add a private school, there are only a handful of options that make some geographic sense:

Belmont
Detroit
Oral Roberts
Denver
SLU
Dayton
Augustana, if they move up as speculated

I would guess 1/2 aren't interested in joining the Valley and the Valley aren't interested in inviting the other half +1.

BTW, 11 isn't bad for scheduling. You would have 20 conference games, which appears to be the way it is going in larger conferences.

I've always liked Murray to the MVC. I think it might draw more basketball players from KY and the mid-south into the MVC. But then you get into "What to do with the football team?", "Who is #12?", and also the sensitive public/private balance of the MVC.

I visited mvcfans recently, and they had an interesting (depressing) conversation on the implications of NET rankings and the NCAA tournament. It seems to push the Mid-Majors farther out of the bracket. A lot of guys were saying that the MVC needs to take time to figure out the NET and see what can be done scheduling-wise to increase the MVC's seed and (maybe) get more than 1 bid.

(BTW: Look at Drake. 2 years ago they had a coach walk out on the team; their rpi hit 320. Then they hire a hot young up-and-comer HC; he bolts after a year. They hired the new coach late- a 20 year assistant at Creighton who Drake had turned down twice before. He had a depleted roster, had to find players, teach his style of b'ball, then they lose their best player to a knee injury... And they're 15-5, tied for 2nd in the conference, with a rpi of 67 ! Lot of basketball still to be played, but who saw this coming? Shout out to the long suffering guys at Drakenation.com fanboard. You gotta read the wiki page on Coach DeVries before wiki gets wise to it and changes it!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darian_DeVries )

I agree the privates the Valley wants (Dayton, SLU, Belmont) are the ones who wouldn’t join and the ones who would join (Detroit, Oral Roberts) are the ones the Valley doesn’t want.

What is mind-numbing is how Murray State isn’t in the league already. I can’t think of a single realignment scenario where a school already better than anyone in the league publicly begging to join won’t get admitted by the league.

Murray had 30 consecutive winning seasons, multiple recent top 25 rankings, multiple recent NCAAT wins, multiple recent NBA lottery picks, and multiple teams who lost in the 2nd round to a national champ/runnerup that gave them their closest game.

Murray also has a better traveling fan base than anyone in the MVC. They brought 5-6k to the OVC Tournament in Evansville. Arch Madness is magical but its attendance took a hit without Wichita & Creighton. Murray would outdraw any current team in St Louis.

Not to mention, the fans on the MVCFans keep campaigning for Murray.

My conclusion is the schools are scared Murray - especially as they raise budget/recruiting from low major to upper midmajor - will runaway with the league effectively locking everyone else out.

(01-24-2019 01:31 PM)MU88 Wrote: [ -> ]If the Valley wants to add a private school, there are only a handful of options that make some geographic sense:

Belmont
Detroit
Oral Roberts
Denver
SLU
Dayton
Augustana, if they move up as speculated

I would guess 1/2 aren't interested in joining the Valley and the Valley aren't interested in inviting the other half +1.

BTW, 11 isn't bad for scheduling. You would have 20 conference games, which appears to be the way it is going in larger conferences.

11 is doable for men's basketball, MVC did it for a couple seasons when Evansville joined and before Tulsa left for the WAC. But it essentially needs a 22 date schedule instead of 18. But 11 is really horrible for all the other sports in the conference, especially the ones that use travel partners.

(01-24-2019 01:57 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote: [ -> ](BTW: Look at Drake. 2 years ago they had a coach walk out on the team; their rpi hit 320. Then they hire a hot young up-and-comer HC; he bolts after a year. They hired the new coach late- a 20 year assistant at Creighton who Drake had turned down twice before. He had a depleted roster, had to find players, teach his style of b'ball, then they lose their best player to a knee injury... And they're 15-5, tied for 2nd in the conference, with a rpi of 67 ! Lot of basketball still to be played, but who saw this coming? Shout out to the long suffering guys at Drakenation.com fanboard. You gotta read the wiki page on Coach DeVries before wiki gets wise to it and changes it!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darian_DeVries )

Drake had a UAB Grad Transfer PG, Nick Norton, who was both Drake’s and the MVC’s best player. They started 11-2 (with the 2 losses to Colorado and Iowa State). He tore his ACL in the league opener. IMO, if Norton hadn’t gotten injured, Drake would’ve won the MVC’s bid. They were a great story with an RPI of 30 at that point.

(01-24-2019 02:00 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]My conclusion is the schools are scared Murray - especially as they raise budget/recruiting from low major to upper midmajor - will runaway with the league effectively locking everyone else out.

Look at the names of the public schools in the MVC.

Indiana State
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Southern Illinois

Very respectable name brand in the Midwest.....then you have Murray State.

Murray St is not the Boise St of basketball. Murray is a very tiny town and school not an emerging market. They are an OVC school not an MVC school in profile.

With the way the NET rankings are set up Murray needs the MVC for recruiting less than ever. They are 44 right now in NET and the top MVC team is 131.

I don't see it as a good fit for both parties.

(01-24-2019 11:23 AM)CAJUNNATION Wrote: [ -> ]Another option.....

The FB schools hit the exit button. Grab a couple of basketball only schools along the way and join forces with certain FBS schools to create a humdinger of a Central Time Zone league. The River Valley Conference

VALLEY

Northern Iowa, Loyola, Illinois State, Valpo, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Saint Louis, Missouri State

RIVER

Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Marshall.

This idea goes back to what I said in my last post is that the MVC contains major public schools that are G5 material.

Murray is definitely not G5 material.